LJ Conditions has it all wrong, Clipboarders are good - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

T Bone · 05-11-2011, 05:01 PM

I say just tell them the truth.If the other side wants to twist it so be it.Integrity is allways more important.

I had a clipboard lady call me on the phone.It wasnt about what I caught,It was about where I fish.It was an economic impact survey.

dorado50 · 05-11-2011, 07:02 PM

You guys are classic. The sky is falling the sky is falling!

X2......lmao

TCS · 05-11-2011, 09:20 PM

The last time I got questioned by the 'clipboard people' I didn't feel like talking. This girl who had seemed nice and cute starts to get all mad and she touches the secret button on her collar and a black unmarked van came roaring onto the beach. These navy seal types hopped out, threw me in the van and off we go. Next thing I know the damn van is lifting off, we leave the atmosphere to outer space behind the moon to be a friggin alien mothership.

I won't gross you out with the other details of the abduction, except to say the the 'clipboard people' are not actually people at all and their 'survey' is really a part of a diabolical plan to take over and dominate our planet!

Tman · 05-11-2011, 09:23 PM

Personally, I had my doubts from the beginning. When we were asked to pinpoint the areas we fish the most, I pinpointed other areas...I just felt at that time it could be used against us, that an area with the majority of kayakers claiming said area as the area we most often fish would be termed 'overfishing'.

The same reason I never brought up Cardiff, Leucadia, or S Cbad in any of the meetings...

I felt it would be construed as an area that needed to be protected, not based on scientific data, but the simpleton mentality of "since so many fish that area, they must be depleting that area".

As Clay once told me back in his Pokeman days that still sticks in my head...

"Confusion is good, it does the most damage"

I could be wrong, but after asking many questions during this whole fiasco, watching the lower echelons squirm at my questions only to defer to their superiors, I have come upon the conclusion that shit not only rolls downhill, but uphill as well.

The clipboarders respond to the data inputs (the ones at the meetings that were always glued to their laptops). The data inputs respond to the advisory team, who then responded to the BRTF.

What left a very bitter taste was watching these so called 'advisory' members speak on behalf of closures, going completely against us and in my opinion, completely misrepresenting themselves.

As far as DFG goes, I still cannot fathom the need for 8+ officers at the meetings, nor can I fathom the need for the BRTF members to enlist them as bodyguards, especially since we were not consulted...after all, we are the ones who pay their salary.

I can go get a Boy Scout hat and patch, but would that make me a Boy Scout?

Hell, let's make it a new fashion trend for kayakers...let's all wear DFG hats...

Respect is earned, not given.

Rusty · 05-11-2011, 10:41 PM

If they want to research the fish population, they should be swimming in the water counting the fish. Its not my job to report how many fish are in the ocean based on how much I catch, nor is most of yours. Until we are getting paid to do their research for them I will continue to ignore their existence when they drill me for information.

I hope I don't get abducted

dos ballenas · 05-12-2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

If they want to research the fish population, they should be swimming in the water counting the fish. Its not my job to report how many fish are in the ocean based on how much I catch, nor is most of yours. Until we are getting paid to do their research for them I will continue to ignore their existence when they drill me for information.

I hope I don't get abducted

You're right, it's not your job.

And for that matter fisheries biology is not an easy job.

Information from the general public is only one aspect of how data is gathered.

Remember that as fishermen we are the only ones that see what is really going on with our local fisheries which makes the data we can provide very valuable.

Once again, if you don't contribute, don't complain. For that matter you shouldn't bother reading anything scientific about fisheries or fish behavior.

It is important that we understand that recording your catch has been an important part of fisheries data collection for years. Recreational catch is an important component to understanding fluctuations in the marine ecosystem. It has led to lots of important fisheries managment practices. You're all benefiting from a lot of hard work done by people who have devoted their lives to study the things they love. Fisheries biologists are low payed but passionate people. Most like to catch, kill, and eat fish. Its not too much to ask to try and make their jobs a little bit easier is it?

Reporting your catch can be extremely helpful and benefit fish, fisheries, and in turn, fishermen.

Do you want GOOD data or BAD data.

In the end, do what makes you feel good. Thats all that matters.

Everyone has made good points here. None of my statements are meant to be personal. It's just that I feel strongly about this topic and I think that it is often misunderstood.

Extremest environmentalists successfully swayed Ca to enact the MLPA while simultaneously discrediting fishermen and painting fisheries biology as the enemy.

-Owyn

Rusty · 05-13-2011, 11:44 PM

Owyn -

First of all, I think your job is rad, and would be stoked to do something like that. You are lucky!

Hear me out.... I AM ALL FOR BIOLOGY AND THE RESEARCH OF OUR LOCAL FISHERIES. I TEACH LIFE SCIENCE, and I love studying animals and their behaviors and habitats. Personally, I've heard that several biologists with the clipboards are also found on the "other side" of the meetings. Here's how I feel - if we report too many fish, we're depleting the fishery, too little - and we've already depleted it.... lose-lose.

Now, if they asked what the water conditions were like, what species I saw both visually and on the meter, and how many of them I saw, I would be more than happy to share, and by God I'd love to read a scientific journal jam packed with that information. I just think that sampling a small population of anglers solely based on their catch is just not enough to get any decent information from, so I don't contribute, nor would I waste my time reading a "scientific" publication on it.

Owyn, you've told me (and I've heard) about your work and what you do is outstanding. Therefore, you have to admit the clipboard work is complete crap, and just about any other method is better. There are too many ignored variables and it is bad science. I don't take part in bad science.

If EVERYONE refused to talk to clipboarders, they'd have to find a real way to their research, and garbage surveys COULD'NT be part of the decision making process because they wouldn't exist. ....feel me?

Margarita Mike · 05-14-2011, 06:52 AM

A wise man once said: Its not about closures, its about proper management.
__________________
____________________________________________
Than why is there a gill net 1/4 mile long at the south island? And I heard that another one is going in at the north island. I know its Mexico, but proper management is for all man kind.
These nets are raking everything.

05-11-2011, 05:01 PM	#1
T Bone Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Redlands CA Posts: 871	I say just tell them the truth.If the other side wants to twist it so be it.Integrity is allways more important. I had a clipboard lady call me on the phone.It wasnt about what I caught,It was about where I fish.It was an economic impact survey. __________________ Barachit Baralah,Elohim-In the beginning,God-Genesis 1:1 "Who among you,if your son asked for a fish would give them a serpent " Jesus Matt. 7:10

05-11-2011, 09:23 PM	#4
Tman BRTF...bought & paid... Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,247	Personally, I had my doubts from the beginning. When we were asked to pinpoint the areas we fish the most, I pinpointed other areas...I just felt at that time it could be used against us, that an area with the majority of kayakers claiming said area as the area we most often fish would be termed 'overfishing'. The same reason I never brought up Cardiff, Leucadia, or S Cbad in any of the meetings... I felt it would be construed as an area that needed to be protected, not based on scientific data, but the simpleton mentality of "since so many fish that area, they must be depleting that area". As Clay once told me back in his Pokeman days that still sticks in my head... "Confusion is good, it does the most damage" I could be wrong, but after asking many questions during this whole fiasco, watching the lower echelons squirm at my questions only to defer to their superiors, I have come upon the conclusion that shit not only rolls downhill, but uphill as well. The clipboarders respond to the data inputs (the ones at the meetings that were always glued to their laptops). The data inputs respond to the advisory team, who then responded to the BRTF. What left a very bitter taste was watching these so called 'advisory' members speak on behalf of closures, going completely against us and in my opinion, completely misrepresenting themselves. As far as DFG goes, I still cannot fathom the need for 8+ officers at the meetings, nor can I fathom the need for the BRTF members to enlist them as bodyguards, especially since we were not consulted...after all, we are the ones who pay their salary. I can go get a Boy Scout hat and patch, but would that make me a Boy Scout? Hell, let's make it a new fashion trend for kayakers...let's all wear DFG hats... Respect is earned, not given. __________________ Adios Tman Gaffer for Clay the Fishcatcher

05-11-2011, 10:41 PM	#5
Rusty Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: LJ Posts: 201	If they want to research the fish population, they should be swimming in the water counting the fish. Its not my job to report how many fish are in the ocean based on how much I catch, nor is most of yours. Until we are getting paid to do their research for them I will continue to ignore their existence when they drill me for information. I hope I don't get abducted __________________

05-13-2011, 11:44 PM	#7
Rusty Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: LJ Posts: 201	Owyn - First of all, I think your job is rad, and would be stoked to do something like that. You are lucky! Hear me out.... I AM ALL FOR BIOLOGY AND THE RESEARCH OF OUR LOCAL FISHERIES. I TEACH LIFE SCIENCE, and I love studying animals and their behaviors and habitats. Personally, I've heard that several biologists with the clipboards are also found on the "other side" of the meetings. Here's how I feel - if we report too many fish, we're depleting the fishery, too little - and we've already depleted it.... lose-lose. Now, if they asked what the water conditions were like, what species I saw both visually and on the meter, and how many of them I saw, I would be more than happy to share, and by God I'd love to read a scientific journal jam packed with that information. I just think that sampling a small population of anglers solely based on their catch is just not enough to get any decent information from, so I don't contribute, nor would I waste my time reading a "scientific" publication on it. Owyn, you've told me (and I've heard) about your work and what you do is outstanding. Therefore, you have to admit the clipboard work is complete crap, and just about any other method is better. There are too many ignored variables and it is bad science. I don't take part in bad science. If EVERYONE refused to talk to clipboarders, they'd have to find a real way to their research, and garbage surveys COULD'NT be part of the decision making process because they wouldn't exist. ....feel me? __________________

05-11-2011, 07:02 PM	#2
dorado50 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: La Jolla Shores Posts: 1,626	You guys are classic. The sky is falling the sky is falling! X2......lmao

05-11-2011, 09:20 PM	#3
TCS Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 478	The last time I got questioned by the 'clipboard people' I didn't feel like talking. This girl who had seemed nice and cute starts to get all mad and she touches the secret button on her collar and a black unmarked van came roaring onto the beach. These navy seal types hopped out, threw me in the van and off we go. Next thing I know the damn van is lifting off, we leave the atmosphere to outer space behind the moon to be a friggin alien mothership. I won't gross you out with the other details of the abduction, except to say the the 'clipboard people' are not actually people at all and their 'survey' is really a part of a diabolical plan to take over and dominate our planet!

05-14-2011, 06:52 AM	#8
Margarita Mike Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 76	A wise man once said: Its not about closures, its about proper management. __________________ ____________________________________________ Than why is there a gill net 1/4 mile long at the south island? And I heard that another one is going in at the north island. I know its Mexico, but proper management is for all man kind. These nets are raking everything.