5/13 am close encounters of the furry kind

[dgax65]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

Aside from the occasional pest of a sea lion stealing some bait and cruising closer to your yak than you might be comfortable with, has anyone seriously been attacked by a sea lion? Seems like a lot of talk about a relative non-issue to me. Sounds a bit like a bear that has learned to raid garbage cans- only without the imminent threat posed by their being a nuisance. Just my opinion, but I'd say, get over it, they aren't that big a deal.

Dan

Over the last several years a number of people have been injured by sea lion. They have been known to snatch fish from people on docks and boats; leading to bite wounds. Sea lion also aggressively protect their haul out spots. Males are aggressive and territorial in the mating season. There are probably 250,000 California Sea Lion on the west coast of the US and in Baja, with the population increasing at about 5% a year. Their numbers are increasing and commercial/recreational fishing is reducing their food supply. They are smart and have learned that people in kayaks and boats can provide them with an easy meal. And on top of all that, their protected status over the last 35 years seems to have eliminated any natural fear of humans. Given all of these conditions, it only stands to reason that there will be an increased number of interactions between sea lion and kayakers. Due to the vulnerability of a person on a kayak any encounter with an aggressive sea lion has the potential for severe consequences.

You're correct in that there is a lot of talk about something that hasn't happened often; just as there is always a lot of talk about GWS attacks. People like to talk about things that are dangerous. And most people do "get over it." I don't know anybody who says "Nah man, I'm not going out today. Too many dogs." It doesn't mean that you shouldn't discuss how the risk might be mitigated.

BTW: When I started kayaking in 2002 I never worried about sea lion. I thought they were cute little harmless furbags. I changed my mind after an encounter with an overly aggressive male that porpoised over my kayak at full speed. I had paddled too close to his haul-out on Zuniga Jetty and he chased me for a good hundred yards. It scared the crap out of me when he shot over my forward hatch at eye level. I can only imagine what would have happened had I caught that dog in the noggin.

[Sarcastic Fringehead]

I think most people seem to be unaware that the sea lions are there to fish also. Like I said, everyone makes a huge deal about problem sea lions and how they need to be shot etc. when all they're basically doing is figuring out the best way to get their next meal. Yeah, it's a pain if they're repeatedly stealing bait or posturing for you to get out of their space. But I think the public menace/ imminent threat status that most kayak fisherman are giving them is going a bit far. I've been fishing and diving in LJ for 8 years and aside from having a 20 lbs. pup try to leap aboard, or having the occasional bait stolen, I've never had an issue, nor have I ever heard of any kayak being upset by one or anyone being bitten out on the water. Maybe it could happen, but it seems highly unlikely- and my guess is that if it does, the person probably brought it on. Just my two cents. Fish and enjoy the wildlife.

[madscientist]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

I think most people seem to be unaware that the sea lions are there to fish also. Like I said, everyone makes a huge deal about problem sea lions and how they need to be shot etc. when all they're basically doing is figuring out the best way to get their next meal. Yeah, it's a pain if they're repeatedly stealing bait or posturing for you to get out of their space. But I think the public menace/ imminent threat status that most kayak fisherman are giving them is going a bit far. I've been fishing and diving in LJ for 8 years and aside from having a 20 lbs. pup try to leap aboard, or having the occasional bait stolen, I've never had an issue, nor have I ever heard of any kayak being upset by one or anyone being bitten out on the water. Maybe it could happen, but it seems highly unlikely- and my guess is that if it does, the person probably brought it on. Just my two cents. Fish and enjoy the wildlife.

Yeah, you are right. We are all fricken idiots that don't know that sea lions eat fish. Sheesh.

I have seen the knothead grow increasingly aggressive and fearless over the last couple of years. I truly believe its just a matter of time until he decides he can get a fish out of someone's lap, and if he is successful once I think we'll have a real problem. An animal that has become so accustomed to humans is no longer "wildlife" and should be managed accordingly.

[Sarcastic Fringehead]

Maybe "unaware" was the wrong wording... "seem to forget" might have been a better choice. Whatever- I wasn't calling anyone an idiot. My only point is that I've come across plenty of floating sea lions in my time out on the water that were shot by some fisherman who didn't want them around. Seems lame to me. Maybe this sea lion is truly a menace. I don't know. I just take exception to some people's rancher mentality that all the wolves and bears should live only in zoos where they won't bother anyone or their food.

[madscientist]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

I don't know. I just take exception to some people's rancher mentality that all the wolves and bears should live only in zoos where they won't bother anyone or their food.

Exactly! You don't know and you are assuming you know people's "mentality". No one is advocating a systemic elimination of sea lions, just concern about a particular animal. And LJ kelp is as much of a "ranch" as Balboa Park.

[aguachico]

I like the way the sealions swin off really fast in the Cortez when I paddle towards them. . Mexican Marine Protection Act.

[Earl E. Retire]

SF, there's a natural ecosystem activity taking place here... If the only fishermen in LJ were other seals, knothead would have to challenge them for food. The peers would try to do painful things to knothead so they could keep their food. Instead, knothead is a protected species and has found an easier way to scrounge a meal than fighting his own kind for it. Yak fishermen are only doing the same thing as the peer dogs would do -- fighting back. As long as they fight fair (i.e., don't use methods that will harm other things or people in the process, don't break laws), the fishermen have every right to fight to deter knothead from being overly aggressive around them.
SF, just because you haven't had a bad experience with a dog doesn't mean other people who have been intimidated by knothead have to share your live and let live perspective. If I want to fight the furry bastard for my fish, then I have every right to.
EER

[Ed]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

My only point is that I've come across plenty of floating sea lions in my time out on the water that were shot by some fisherman who didn't want them around.

I have been fishing offshore San Diego for over forty years and have seen some dead sea dogs, but never one I could tell was shot. Lots of things can kill a sea lion, including old age, disease and starvation. What is your definition of plenty?. Come on, sounds like a huge exaggeration. Is it just where I'm fishing, or do all you guys see shot dogs regularly?. Yeah, right. The feds made slingshots legal for a reason, and they are the ones in charge of protecting the beasts. As for being afraid of pissing one off with my slingshot, the next one that gets too close to my yak gets a new beauty mark. If it pisses him off, he gets another beauty mark. There's a pattern there.

[Tman]

I like barking at his arse....think it confuses him.

He's not a very good dog either, doesn't even know how to fetch.
Every time I toss an iron to him, he just takes off the other way......

[Sarcastic Fringehead]

Originally Posted by Ed

I have been fishing offshore San Diego for over forty years and have seen some dead sea dogs, but never one I could tell was shot. Lots of things can kill a sea lion, including old age, disease and starvation. What is your definition of plenty?. Come on, sounds like a huge exaggeration. Is it just where I'm fishing, or do all you guys see shot dogs regularly?. Yeah, right. The feds made slingshots legal for a reason, and they are the ones in charge of protecting the beasts. As for being afraid of pissing one off with my slingshot, the next one that gets too close to my yak gets a new beauty mark. If it pisses him off, he gets another beauty mark. There's a pattern there.

It's actually not an exaggeration. But since you clearly think I have no idea what I'm talking about, why don't you ask a colleague of mine, Jim Carretta (who's been conducting pinniped and cetacean population studies for NMFS out of the La Jolla office) how many sea lions they come across on a yearly basis in S. Cal. that are dead as the result of gunshot wounds. Then after you get that number, and it's a big one, keep in mind it represents only a small fraction of the actual total, since the ones that are logged are only those that were floating and were observed. But that's a different debate. Use a slingshot if you feel inclined.

[Ed]

I didn't question how many shot sea lions researchers get turned in. I question you seeing them on any kind of a regular basis when fishing. How many have you reported to authorities?. Got any pics you have taken?. I spend a lot of time on the water and have for many years. I believe you are exaggerating and at the same time you are blaming anglers for these fantasy kills. That plays right into the hands of PETA. If you want to FU the future of our sport, keep making crap up and blaming it on anglers. And you never answered the question, how many shot dogs do YOU see? Where?. FYI - Most of those floating dogs you see are sleeping, even the ones with the flipper sticking straight up.

lol

[Afran]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

've been fishing and diving in LJ for 8 years

[dgax65]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

I think most people seem to be unaware that the sea lions are there to fish also. Like I said, everyone makes a huge deal about problem sea lions and how they need to be shot etc. when all they're basically doing is figuring out the best way to get their next meal. Yeah, it's a pain if they're repeatedly stealing bait or posturing for you to get out of their space. But I think the public menace/ imminent threat status that most kayak fisherman are giving them is going a bit far. I've been fishing and diving in LJ for 8 years and aside from having a 20 lbs. pup try to leap aboard, or having the occasional bait stolen, I've never had an issue, nor have I ever heard of any kayak being upset by one or anyone being bitten out on the water. Maybe it could happen, but it seems highly unlikely- and my guess is that if it does, the person probably brought it on. Just my two cents. Fish and enjoy the wildlife.

Yes, we are in their habitat. Yes, they are just trying to eat. Yes, humans are just evil by nature and all animals are pure and sweet. That is a little simplistic. We have upset the balance of nature with sea lions twice; first by nearly hunting them to extinction and then by giving them absolute protection that has resulted in their population dramatically expanding while removing any fear of humans. A balance somewhere in between needs to be struck.
I wouldn't disagree with you that sea lion get shot by some fishermen. As their numbers increased, sea lion began having a significant impact on commercial and recreational fishing. While their population recovered from dangerously low levels, the law didn't change. Fishermen, dock and boat owners were faced with more and more sea lion damage and depredation and they had no legal recourse to deal with the problem. There was little rational response to the growing problem of human/sea lion interaction. Bears, cougars, wolves, coyotes, feral dogs, and any other land predators are dealt with quickly when they come into contact with humans. Yet fisherman and boat owners are just told to accept whatever damage that the sea lion might cause. An unresponsive bureaucracy ignores a growing problem until people take the law into their own hands. I'm not condoning that behavior, but if the government had been a little more even handed in dealing with this growing problem then fewer people would feel the need to take independent action. I think that the new rules for dealing with sea lion, while long overdue, are helpful. Hopefully, we don't have to start shooting large numbers of sea lion. If widespread use of non-lethal deterrents teach sea lion to stay away from humans and boats it will be advantageous for both.

BTW: there have been more than a few instances where kayakers have ended up in the water or have had to fight off sea lion.

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...=f%27n+furbags
http://forum.kayak4fish.com/viewtopi...ea+lion+client
http://forum.kayak4fish.com/viewtopi...969&highlight=

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4929124
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...8LMEFM80.shtml
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Sea-L...ns-41338.shtml