5/13 am close encounters of the furry kind

[dgax65]

Originally Posted by madscientist

I'm thinking about getting a slingshot but I'm not completely sure it would do anything other than piss him off. Might try from a boat, not sure from the yak.

I would think that any "less than lethal" option poses a risk of pissing him off, rather than driving him away. There just aren't many options on a kayak if they decide to go after you. I don't think I'd want to risk using a sling shot. Unless you hit them on the jaw or in an eye it probably won't hurt them that much and those are the areas that you aren't supposed to injure. I think that the best deterrent would be pepper spray. Injuring a sea lion might prompt it to attack. Pepper spray would cause irritation and interfere with its breathing. It would then be less likely to come after you (disclaimer: not a marine mammal behavior expert....just a gut feeling). I bet it would only take getting sprayed once or twice and a sea lion would start avoiding kayaks. There would also be less chance of negative publicity; no noise, no lasting injury, nobody getting shot accidentally with a sling shot.
I think I'm going to go buy some OC spray. If Knothead mauls me on Saturday, disregard everything that I posted here

[umoa]

i was wondering, if someone does get mauled (imo just a matter of time), would we have the same response as a cougar mauling? go out and kill the bastard? or would it be like a shark attack where it would be "you were in it's territory sucks to be you"?

[madscientist]

Originally Posted by umoa

i was wondering, if someone does get mauled (imo just a matter of time), would we have the same response as a cougar mauling? go out and kill the bastard? or would it be like a shark attack where it would be "you were in it's territory sucks to be you"?

If it were one of us (fisherman), my guess is the latter. If it was tourist, I'm betting the economic intrests would compel the former.

[esdees]

I believe they're opening up children's pool to people again today. I wonder if that will drive some of the dogs away. At the very least, it should make them less comfortable with humans.

[BT]

Originally Posted by dgax65

I think I'm going to go buy some OC spray. If Knothead mauls me on Saturday, disregard everything that I posted here

Dgax,

Just remember the wind! You wouldnt want that blowing back in your face and be out of commision on the water! You would have to get pretty close for it to be effective, especially with the watered down store versions.

You are also a pretty crafty guy...maybe a paddle with an OC Spray canister incorporated in the handle near the blade, with a push button trigger?

BT
BTW - my first post on here....I just noticed that. Been reading for a while.

[Sarcastic Fringehead]

Aside from the occasional pest of a sea lion stealing some bait and cruising closer to your yak than you might be comfortable with, has anyone seriously been attacked by a sea lion? Seems like a lot of talk about a relative non-issue to me. Sounds a bit like a bear that has learned to raid garbage cans- only without the imminent threat posed by their being a nuisance. Just my opinion, but I'd say, get over it, they aren't that big a deal.

Dan

[lamb]

I've had one bump the bottom of my kayak last year.

Sorry I disagree there - if we were strictly whale watching or sightseeing, I would say Sea Lions are not that big of a deal.

We're there primarily to fish; sea lions steal our fish and our bait. In my opinion, they are a major pain in the ass. About the biggest problem we as kayak fishermen have, aside from the weather/conditions.

[dgax65]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

Aside from the occasional pest of a sea lion stealing some bait and cruising closer to your yak than you might be comfortable with, has anyone seriously been attacked by a sea lion? Seems like a lot of talk about a relative non-issue to me. Sounds a bit like a bear that has learned to raid garbage cans- only without the imminent threat posed by their being a nuisance. Just my opinion, but I'd say, get over it, they aren't that big a deal.

Dan

Over the last several years a number of people have been injured by sea lion. They have been known to snatch fish from people on docks and boats; leading to bite wounds. Sea lion also aggressively protect their haul out spots. Males are aggressive and territorial in the mating season. There are probably 250,000 California Sea Lion on the west coast of the US and in Baja, with the population increasing at about 5% a year. Their numbers are increasing and commercial/recreational fishing is reducing their food supply. They are smart and have learned that people in kayaks and boats can provide them with an easy meal. And on top of all that, their protected status over the last 35 years seems to have eliminated any natural fear of humans. Given all of these conditions, it only stands to reason that there will be an increased number of interactions between sea lion and kayakers. Due to the vulnerability of a person on a kayak any encounter with an aggressive sea lion has the potential for severe consequences.

You're correct in that there is a lot of talk about something that hasn't happened often; just as there is always a lot of talk about GWS attacks. People like to talk about things that are dangerous. And most people do "get over it." I don't know anybody who says "Nah man, I'm not going out today. Too many dogs." It doesn't mean that you shouldn't discuss how the risk might be mitigated.

BTW: When I started kayaking in 2002 I never worried about sea lion. I thought they were cute little harmless furbags. I changed my mind after an encounter with an overly aggressive male that porpoised over my kayak at full speed. I had paddled too close to his haul-out on Zuniga Jetty and he chased me for a good hundred yards. It scared the crap out of me when he shot over my forward hatch at eye level. I can only imagine what would have happened had I caught that dog in the noggin.

[Sarcastic Fringehead]

I think most people seem to be unaware that the sea lions are there to fish also. Like I said, everyone makes a huge deal about problem sea lions and how they need to be shot etc. when all they're basically doing is figuring out the best way to get their next meal. Yeah, it's a pain if they're repeatedly stealing bait or posturing for you to get out of their space. But I think the public menace/ imminent threat status that most kayak fisherman are giving them is going a bit far. I've been fishing and diving in LJ for 8 years and aside from having a 20 lbs. pup try to leap aboard, or having the occasional bait stolen, I've never had an issue, nor have I ever heard of any kayak being upset by one or anyone being bitten out on the water. Maybe it could happen, but it seems highly unlikely- and my guess is that if it does, the person probably brought it on. Just my two cents. Fish and enjoy the wildlife.

[madscientist]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

I think most people seem to be unaware that the sea lions are there to fish also. Like I said, everyone makes a huge deal about problem sea lions and how they need to be shot etc. when all they're basically doing is figuring out the best way to get their next meal. Yeah, it's a pain if they're repeatedly stealing bait or posturing for you to get out of their space. But I think the public menace/ imminent threat status that most kayak fisherman are giving them is going a bit far. I've been fishing and diving in LJ for 8 years and aside from having a 20 lbs. pup try to leap aboard, or having the occasional bait stolen, I've never had an issue, nor have I ever heard of any kayak being upset by one or anyone being bitten out on the water. Maybe it could happen, but it seems highly unlikely- and my guess is that if it does, the person probably brought it on. Just my two cents. Fish and enjoy the wildlife.

Yeah, you are right. We are all fricken idiots that don't know that sea lions eat fish. Sheesh.

I have seen the knothead grow increasingly aggressive and fearless over the last couple of years. I truly believe its just a matter of time until he decides he can get a fish out of someone's lap, and if he is successful once I think we'll have a real problem. An animal that has become so accustomed to humans is no longer "wildlife" and should be managed accordingly.

[Sarcastic Fringehead]

Maybe "unaware" was the wrong wording... "seem to forget" might have been a better choice. Whatever- I wasn't calling anyone an idiot. My only point is that I've come across plenty of floating sea lions in my time out on the water that were shot by some fisherman who didn't want them around. Seems lame to me. Maybe this sea lion is truly a menace. I don't know. I just take exception to some people's rancher mentality that all the wolves and bears should live only in zoos where they won't bother anyone or their food.

[Afran]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

've been fishing and diving in LJ for 8 years

[dgax65]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

I think most people seem to be unaware that the sea lions are there to fish also. Like I said, everyone makes a huge deal about problem sea lions and how they need to be shot etc. when all they're basically doing is figuring out the best way to get their next meal. Yeah, it's a pain if they're repeatedly stealing bait or posturing for you to get out of their space. But I think the public menace/ imminent threat status that most kayak fisherman are giving them is going a bit far. I've been fishing and diving in LJ for 8 years and aside from having a 20 lbs. pup try to leap aboard, or having the occasional bait stolen, I've never had an issue, nor have I ever heard of any kayak being upset by one or anyone being bitten out on the water. Maybe it could happen, but it seems highly unlikely- and my guess is that if it does, the person probably brought it on. Just my two cents. Fish and enjoy the wildlife.

Yes, we are in their habitat. Yes, they are just trying to eat. Yes, humans are just evil by nature and all animals are pure and sweet. That is a little simplistic. We have upset the balance of nature with sea lions twice; first by nearly hunting them to extinction and then by giving them absolute protection that has resulted in their population dramatically expanding while removing any fear of humans. A balance somewhere in between needs to be struck.
I wouldn't disagree with you that sea lion get shot by some fishermen. As their numbers increased, sea lion began having a significant impact on commercial and recreational fishing. While their population recovered from dangerously low levels, the law didn't change. Fishermen, dock and boat owners were faced with more and more sea lion damage and depredation and they had no legal recourse to deal with the problem. There was little rational response to the growing problem of human/sea lion interaction. Bears, cougars, wolves, coyotes, feral dogs, and any other land predators are dealt with quickly when they come into contact with humans. Yet fisherman and boat owners are just told to accept whatever damage that the sea lion might cause. An unresponsive bureaucracy ignores a growing problem until people take the law into their own hands. I'm not condoning that behavior, but if the government had been a little more even handed in dealing with this growing problem then fewer people would feel the need to take independent action. I think that the new rules for dealing with sea lion, while long overdue, are helpful. Hopefully, we don't have to start shooting large numbers of sea lion. If widespread use of non-lethal deterrents teach sea lion to stay away from humans and boats it will be advantageous for both.

BTW: there have been more than a few instances where kayakers have ended up in the water or have had to fight off sea lion.

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...=f%27n+furbags
http://forum.kayak4fish.com/viewtopi...ea+lion+client
http://forum.kayak4fish.com/viewtopi...969&highlight=

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4929124
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...8LMEFM80.shtml
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Sea-L...ns-41338.shtml