Just a dumb question - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

walrus · 02-10-2010, 07:25 PM

O.K. I have read several sites and many forums. And now I'm really confused.

What is the best way to mount a transducer and why is it better? What exactly does it do better when mounted a specific way compare to another? Is it all the same and we're trying to reinvent the wheel?

1. I have seen where people cut holes in the bottom of the yak.
2. Put the transducer in a fish tank attached to the inside bottom of the yak.
3. hang it ovet the side.
4. hang it over the stern.
5. glue it to the bottom of the yak with goop.
6. and weird things with grease and oils that I don't remember right now.

I hope some of you that tried more than one method who can tell which you found to work better.

Thanks

steveooo · 02-10-2010, 08:00 PM

No dumb questions...

I've tried two ways.
1) Goop
Very easy install. Don't rush it and you won't get bubbles. Prep the surfaces right, and it will never come off. Very durable, Iv'e had 5 yaks with this method, and never had one pop off. Good image readings (Was easily able to track a swimbait in 100 ft of water) The only downside I can see between this and my other one is that I can not read the depth of the water as deep with this method. I lose bottom around 400 ft, which seems excessive to be fishing in for the most part anyways.

2) Through hull, inspired by this post
http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...sducer+install
Fairly easy to install. Should be the best possible readings, as the transducer is directly reading into the water. The only two benefits that I have found are 1) Gives accurate surface temps. 2) I can read deeper bottoms with this method as well, but it may be due to the fact that I have a higher power unit for this install.

Honestly, I can not say that I notice a huge difference between the sensitivity between the two installs. With both installs i can see my bait in the water, see bottom definition clearly, and find bait if it is around.

I am always a little tenative when dragging the yak with the through hull 'ducer, because I'm afraid I will damage it. I know the gooped 'ducer is bulletproof so i never worry about that yak.

I know there are other guys that will chime in, but a wet mount seems like alot of work and alot of possible maintinance for a ducer that will be shooting through plastic anyways. I bang my yak around, and drive longer than most folks, so I don't think this would be the best method for me.

I know others use 2 part epoxy. With how much the bottom of the yak can flex and bend, this seems like it could eventually bend and pop off due to it being so brittle. I haven't tried epoxy, so this is just speculation. Goop is very flexible, unaffected by temperatures, and like I said, I've never had it fail.

For my money, I'd go with the goop, because it has always worked for me. Also try doing some searches on this forum, as the topic comes up about a bajillion times a year. It actually is cool to see the "evolution" of the 'ducer install. I've contemplated other methods, and tried the through hull, but eventually have come full circle and will for sure use goop on my next yak.

"Simplicity means the achievement of maximum effect with minimum means."

- Dr. Koichi Kawana, Architect

dsafety · 02-10-2010, 08:17 PM

Most of the people who visit this forum have tried multiple methods of mounting transducers with varying degrees of success. The easiest and most common method is using goop. Most of us who have tried that method have learned that over time goop develops air bubbles, (I can't tell you why).

The sonar signals do not pass through air very well so common sense tells me that having the bubbles is not a good thing. I am not aware of any actual studies which prove this to be a fact however.

The other common transducer mount method is what is called the "wet mount". The basic thing that happens when you use this method is that you have a bubble-free liquid connection between the transducer and the hull, (which is about the same density as water and invisible to the sonar signals).

Most people say that this method makes the type of inexpensive fish finders that many of us use, perform better than all the options, (except for when the transducer is mounted on the exterior of the hull as it would be on a regular boat). Until recently most people who wanted to use this method glued a foam ring to the bottom of their yak, filled it with water and set the transducer in the water. This method has issues with the water leaking away or evaporating so the water level has to be monitored.

The newest wet mount method involves creating a permanent wet well that holds the transducer. This well is filled with water and is then sealed to prevent leaks. You can see this method here. http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...ght=transducer

There is one other method being used by some brave yakfishers. Some brands of fish finders offer a trough-hull transducer option. To use this option, you have to drill a hole in the bottom your yak and then fit the transducer into the hole and seal it in place. I am sure this works great but if the seal fails and you are a couple miles offshore, you could be in for a bad day.

Hopefully this information helps answer some of your questions.

Bob

yakrider · 02-10-2010, 09:58 PM

I have had 5 goop installs...
they all worked good...

I have now graduated from gopp to the wet well...
I did the faom ring thing...
I keep hearing people say you have to "monitor"
the water...
I can fish from sun up to sundown and never have any "monitoring issues...
as for the signal strength from gooped versus wet well...
I'd estimate the wet well is about 10% better than the gooped version...
and the wet well may be about 3% less effective as compared to directly in the water...
the wet well is just a little more effort on the initial install, but it's well worth the effort in my opinion...
my .02

walrus · 02-11-2010, 07:20 AM

I hearing:

Mounting in the water gives the best performance, but the gain in performance is questional for the kayak fisherman. The down side is more rigging and maintenance and the possibiltly of damanging the transducer.

Wet wells work with a minor performance drop, but you don't install them and then just forget it. You'll need to inspect/maintain before each trip.

Attaching with Goop, is basically maintenance free, but does have life span before needing to be re-gooped. Is cleaning the transducer to re-goop difficult? You give up more performance than the two installs listed above, like surface temps and range of depth.

Putting a hole in the bottom of the yakak is not something I want to do, it scares me.

I think I beginning to understand that how the transducer is mounted is largely dependent on how/where you fish, and how much detail information do you need to catcth them. So since all these can be changed, try it out and see what you like?

Now, I need to ask where is the best place on the kayak for these three methods. Forward, center, or stern?

Is there anything else I missed like interference from the batttery or pump if it's too close?

Thanks, you have helped clear up the confusion.

FISHIONADO · 02-11-2010, 07:41 AM

Goop does not develop air bubbles over time, this only occurs during the curing phase, once it is cured it is stable. The air bubbles come from chemical outgassing and usually indicate too much Goop was used, or you had contamination on the mating surfaces. Clean everything with alcohol. You want a very thin layer of goop if you use that method, sound doesn't travel through a thick layer of goop very well even if no bubbles, it will actually become an attenuator.

Hunters Pa · 02-11-2010, 08:57 AM

I had two gooped & they worked fine. However I decided to upgrade when my old ducer went bad so I decided to cut the hole. After the cut I just kept thinking I just %$#^%$ed up my yak.

Here's the thread on another site, rather than reposting everything

http://www.kayaksportfishing.com/php...pic.php?t=8407

Difference is night & day. I can watch my bait all the way down in 100 ft of water. No leaks yet, but I still check frequently

bentrod1 · 02-11-2010, 09:10 AM

This Goop your talking about: What name brand is best and where can I purchase it?
I'm assuming marine goop?

JoeBeck · 02-11-2010, 09:13 AM

I've given up on gluing down my transducers , seems I can't do it without getting not so great reading and it always pops off every month or so, then I have a transducer with dried goop all over it, I have to deal with.

I bought a humminbird fish-finder and their scupper transducer. Simple to install, great reading, no glue or hole drilled in the kayak.

dgax65 · 02-11-2010, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bentrod1

This Goop your talking about: What name brand is best and where can I purchase it?
I'm assuming marine goop?

Marine Goop - part of the Goop line of products.

OEX sells it, as does http://www.kayakfishingsupplies.com/...ne-GOOP/Detail

JoeBeck · 02-11-2010, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FISHIONADO

Goop does not develop air bubbles over time, this only occurs during the curing phase, once it is cured it is stable. The air bubbles come from chemical outgassing and usually indicate too much Goop was used, or you had contamination on the mating surfaces. Clean everything with alcohol. You want a very thin layer of goop if you use that method, sound doesn't travel through a thick layer of goop very well even if no bubbles, it will actually become an attenuator.

This may be the root of my problems with goop. I always figured the more the better

steveooo · 02-11-2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FISHIONADO

Goop does not develop air bubbles over time, this only occurs during the curing phase, once it is cured it is stable. The air bubbles come from chemical outgassing and usually indicate too much Goop was used, or you had contamination on the mating surfaces. Clean everything with alcohol. You want a very thin layer of goop if you use that method, sound doesn't travel through a thick layer of goop very well even if no bubbles, it will actually become an attenuator.

Exactly. Goop will not "develop" bubbles If there are bubbles, I would say that the install was the issue, not the goop. Also you gotta prep the surface well. This means scuffing the surface good with a heavy grit sandpaper, and making sure there is no plastic dust left. I had to sell my first hobie with the 'ducer still installed, because I literally could not remove it. I tried prying it with screwdrivers, scrapers, even tried cutting it out with a razor, but it was stuck so bad that it wasn't going anywhere. Goop is some sticky stuff, and you do not need alot of it.

Sherm · 02-11-2010, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveooo

Exactly. Goop will not "develop" bubbles If there are bubbles, I would say that the install was the issue, not the goop. Also you gotta prep the surface well. This means scuffing the surface good with a heavy grit sandpaper, and making sure there is no plastic dust left. I had to sell my first hobie with the 'ducer still installed, because I literally could not remove it. I tried prying it with screwdrivers, scrapers, even tried cutting it out with a razor, but it was stuck so bad that it wasn't going anywhere. Goop is some sticky stuff, and you do not need alot of it.

Second that......I still have my old transducer stuck to the inside of my yak. I was afraid of doing damage trying to get that thing un stuck. No wires to it. It's just a permanent fixture now.

02-10-2010, 07:25 PM	#1
walrus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Baja fish camp Posts: 478	Just a dumb question O.K. I have read several sites and many forums. And now I'm really confused. What is the best way to mount a transducer and why is it better? What exactly does it do better when mounted a specific way compare to another? Is it all the same and we're trying to reinvent the wheel? 1. I have seen where people cut holes in the bottom of the yak. 2. Put the transducer in a fish tank attached to the inside bottom of the yak. 3. hang it ovet the side. 4. hang it over the stern. 5. glue it to the bottom of the yak with goop. 6. and weird things with grease and oils that I don't remember right now. I hope some of you that tried more than one method who can tell which you found to work better. Thanks

02-10-2010, 08:00 PM	#2
steveooo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,921	No dumb questions... I've tried two ways. 1) Goop Very easy install. Don't rush it and you won't get bubbles. Prep the surfaces right, and it will never come off. Very durable, Iv'e had 5 yaks with this method, and never had one pop off. Good image readings (Was easily able to track a swimbait in 100 ft of water) The only downside I can see between this and my other one is that I can not read the depth of the water as deep with this method. I lose bottom around 400 ft, which seems excessive to be fishing in for the most part anyways. 2) Through hull, inspired by this post http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...sducer+install Fairly easy to install. Should be the best possible readings, as the transducer is directly reading into the water. The only two benefits that I have found are 1) Gives accurate surface temps. 2) I can read deeper bottoms with this method as well, but it may be due to the fact that I have a higher power unit for this install. Honestly, I can not say that I notice a huge difference between the sensitivity between the two installs. With both installs i can see my bait in the water, see bottom definition clearly, and find bait if it is around. I am always a little tenative when dragging the yak with the through hull 'ducer, because I'm afraid I will damage it. I know the gooped 'ducer is bulletproof so i never worry about that yak. I know there are other guys that will chime in, but a wet mount seems like alot of work and alot of possible maintinance for a ducer that will be shooting through plastic anyways. I bang my yak around, and drive longer than most folks, so I don't think this would be the best method for me. I know others use 2 part epoxy. With how much the bottom of the yak can flex and bend, this seems like it could eventually bend and pop off due to it being so brittle. I haven't tried epoxy, so this is just speculation. Goop is very flexible, unaffected by temperatures, and like I said, I've never had it fail. For my money, I'd go with the goop, because it has always worked for me. Also try doing some searches on this forum, as the topic comes up about a bajillion times a year. It actually is cool to see the "evolution" of the 'ducer install. I've contemplated other methods, and tried the through hull, but eventually have come full circle and will for sure use goop on my next yak. "Simplicity means the achievement of maximum effect with minimum means." - Dr. Koichi Kawana, Architect

02-10-2010, 08:17 PM	#3
dsafety Olivenhain Bob Join Date: May 2008 Location: Olivenhain, CA Posts: 1,121	Most of the people who visit this forum have tried multiple methods of mounting transducers with varying degrees of success. The easiest and most common method is using goop. Most of us who have tried that method have learned that over time goop develops air bubbles, (I can't tell you why). The sonar signals do not pass through air very well so common sense tells me that having the bubbles is not a good thing. I am not aware of any actual studies which prove this to be a fact however. The other common transducer mount method is what is called the "wet mount". The basic thing that happens when you use this method is that you have a bubble-free liquid connection between the transducer and the hull, (which is about the same density as water and invisible to the sonar signals). Most people say that this method makes the type of inexpensive fish finders that many of us use, perform better than all the options, (except for when the transducer is mounted on the exterior of the hull as it would be on a regular boat). Until recently most people who wanted to use this method glued a foam ring to the bottom of their yak, filled it with water and set the transducer in the water. This method has issues with the water leaking away or evaporating so the water level has to be monitored. The newest wet mount method involves creating a permanent wet well that holds the transducer. This well is filled with water and is then sealed to prevent leaks. You can see this method here. http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...ght=transducer There is one other method being used by some brave yakfishers. Some brands of fish finders offer a trough-hull transducer option. To use this option, you have to drill a hole in the bottom your yak and then fit the transducer into the hole and seal it in place. I am sure this works great but if the seal fails and you are a couple miles offshore, you could be in for a bad day. Hopefully this information helps answer some of your questions. Bob Last edited by dsafety; 02-11-2010 at 06:56 AM.

02-11-2010, 09:10 AM	#8
bentrod1 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Upland Posts: 60	Goop This Goop your talking about: What name brand is best and where can I purchase it? I'm assuming marine goop?

02-10-2010, 09:58 PM	#4
yakrider Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 611	I have had 5 goop installs... they all worked good... I have now graduated from gopp to the wet well... I did the faom ring thing... I keep hearing people say you have to "monitor" the water... I can fish from sun up to sundown and never have any "monitoring issues... as for the signal strength from gooped versus wet well... I'd estimate the wet well is about 10% better than the gooped version... and the wet well may be about 3% less effective as compared to directly in the water... the wet well is just a little more effort on the initial install, but it's well worth the effort in my opinion... my .02

02-11-2010, 07:20 AM	#5
walrus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Baja fish camp Posts: 478	I hearing: Mounting in the water gives the best performance, but the gain in performance is questional for the kayak fisherman. The down side is more rigging and maintenance and the possibiltly of damanging the transducer. Wet wells work with a minor performance drop, but you don't install them and then just forget it. You'll need to inspect/maintain before each trip. Attaching with Goop, is basically maintenance free, but does have life span before needing to be re-gooped. Is cleaning the transducer to re-goop difficult? You give up more performance than the two installs listed above, like surface temps and range of depth. Putting a hole in the bottom of the yakak is not something I want to do, it scares me. I think I beginning to understand that how the transducer is mounted is largely dependent on how/where you fish, and how much detail information do you need to catcth them. So since all these can be changed, try it out and see what you like? Now, I need to ask where is the best place on the kayak for these three methods. Forward, center, or stern? Is there anything else I missed like interference from the batttery or pump if it's too close? Thanks, you have helped clear up the confusion.

02-11-2010, 07:41 AM	#6
FISHIONADO Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 698	Goop does not develop air bubbles over time, this only occurs during the curing phase, once it is cured it is stable. The air bubbles come from chemical outgassing and usually indicate too much Goop was used, or you had contamination on the mating surfaces. Clean everything with alcohol. You want a very thin layer of goop if you use that method, sound doesn't travel through a thick layer of goop very well even if no bubbles, it will actually become an attenuator.

02-11-2010, 08:57 AM	#7
Hunters Pa Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Fullerton Posts: 1,360	I had two gooped & they worked fine. However I decided to upgrade when my old ducer went bad so I decided to cut the hole. After the cut I just kept thinking I just %$#^%$ed up my yak. Here's the thread on another site, rather than reposting everything http://www.kayaksportfishing.com/php...pic.php?t=8407 Difference is night & day. I can watch my bait all the way down in 100 ft of water. No leaks yet, but I still check frequently

02-11-2010, 09:13 AM	#9
JoeBeck Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 370	I've given up on gluing down my transducers , seems I can't do it without getting not so great reading and it always pops off every month or so, then I have a transducer with dried goop all over it, I have to deal with. I bought a humminbird fish-finder and their scupper transducer. Simple to install, great reading, no glue or hole drilled in the kayak.