Classic Outback vs Pro Angler question, hopefully a unique and challenging case... - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

absentx · 09-19-2020, 08:20 PM

Hey all,

Love the forum, been reading and casually posting for years. Not a coastal/sea fishermen, but today I come for some needed craft advice. I reside in the great state of Wisconsin, but consider this forum a gold standard for kayak fishing knowledge and opinion.

I have been in a Hobie Mirage Outback since 2009. Just happened to check one out a dealership in 09 and fell in love, my Wife and I bought two of them.

In 2015 we sold the 2009's and upgraded to the at the time brand new 2015 models with the greatly improved seats. Amazing crafts...they are what we currently have. Mine is a finely honed craft set up to the T for my style of fishing.

However - nearly six years into ownership I have realized a few things and wanted to reach out for some advice.

I long was on the Outback side of the Outback VS Pro Angler argument, but that is mainly because my Outback has served me well, but I am starting to realize that I might need to take a step back and make a more unbiased evaluation of the two crafts.

Okay, let me get to the point and set the stage for my usage:

90% of my usage is at our cabin which is 300 miles from my permanent residence. I fish locally maybe once a year...very rarely.

Most of the time if I am using our Outbacks, I am trailering them somewhere and I put them in directly at a landing or muscle them with the wheely cart to a good put in location.

The main use for my Outback other than our cabin or other travel/expedition based weekend trips is a once a year, ten day river camping trip that involves carrying heavy loads on each man's boat. This trip is only possible because two or three guys who attend bring canoes and are able to take much extra weight. I strap a Yeti 45 or 50 to the back of my Outback plus all my camping gear under deck etc and I am significantly weighed down

Further, this trip is on a shallow, fast moving river. While the incidents of ratable rapids are few, when they do occur, they can flip or screw up any craft, especially one loaded for ten days of camping. My buddy has a Mirage Oasis and it kind of handles like a missle in the River, but I always tell him that my Outback handles more like a tank in the current. I find it takes a combination of paddle and rudder to keep the nose of the Outback under control in a swift river. When I have my rudder down, my buddy with the Oasis says I am "cheapening the experience" I tell him "you don't know how loose the nose of this thing is!!"

So - given my use case, would a 12 or 14 foot PA perhaps be a better boat? Portability is of low concern since I use a trailer 90 percent of the time anyways. Further, when at our cabin and not on the ten day river trip, I just keep the kayak at the dock in the water ready to go fishing at any time.

Also - considered the new Outback last year, but I don't like the reduction in size of the front hatch...hard enough to shove tent, sleeping bag etc into the 2015, don't need a smaller front hatch!

I want to be more helpful on the River trip by being able to carry more things, so a bigger more stable boat would help, but I also have no idea how a PA would perform in shallow river with some rocky rapids. Assume if it was a PA 12 I would max out at 500 pounds and if it was a PA 14 I would max out the 600 pound rating!

90% of the time, I find my Outback glides through the rapids wonderfully with only use of the rudder. I did however pick a bad line on our most recent trip and had hit a nasty craft-eating rock and had a real eye opening near flip incident.

Any and all feedback appreciated!

surfshotmoto · 09-20-2020, 12:17 PM

I have both. The Pro Angler is perfect for ocean fishing. That is it as far as I am concerned. It to big and heavy for anything else. It is brilliant in this environment though.

For smaller water and rivers I wouldn’t even consider it. The Outback is so much more nimble. I would hate trying to move the Pro Angler around in any tight water. It would be like taking a bus down a river. Not fun.

Just my two cents.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

absentx · 09-20-2020, 02:48 PM

This is excellent information and thank you very much!

Keep the good info coming. Maybe I need to really look at the 2019 and newer Outback.

Flounder · 09-21-2020, 12:22 AM

I have a pa12 and use a ob on occasion for ocean fishing. I grew up fishing rivers with driftboats and yakking with sit ins. As long as you don’t have to portage the pa would do well with the extra loads draft is still pretty shallow, but you won’t make it upstream paddling very long. It’s responsiveness is that of a canoe but if you understand that you could pull it off. Hell my pa is smaller than my first canoe that I took down the river all the time. Also the double steering handles get in the way of the paddle all the time, takes some getting used to.

JohnMckroidJr · 09-21-2020, 02:56 AM

I have used the new outback for about a year, and have used the PA14 for 5 years. A sail rudder on the PA helps reduce the sluggishness. Never done anything but saltwater fishing with both. If you are not in a hurry to get anywhere, the PA is so much more comfortable than the Outback. Good luck with your decision.

monstahfish · 09-21-2020, 10:11 AM

Here's some good info on this from people who do it all the time and have all the options available. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd0xTALYbWE

absentx · 09-21-2020, 02:03 PM

ah great video! They definitely make the case there.

But, I have also severely bent my conventional Mirage drive doing the same thing. I assume the new kick up fins would make all the difference in a rocky river situation.

There are a lot of scenarios though where things can get ugly in a shallow river with a mirage drive. First lets say you beached it or have to get out of your boat to move it to another location to regain depth...well, the drive is impossible to get out of a boat that has no clearance below it, plus you would have to bungee the drive into the foot forward position while you are out of the boat otherwise the second you get it to deeper water your fins are falling down again and running into stuff.

@flounder that is kind of what I figured re the canoe comment. It can't be worse than a canoe, so I figured that might make it okay...but again, I don't even take my drive along on this ten day trip because the River is so shallow and the drive would just get in the way.

However - a drive with kick up fins that would avoid damage, might all of the sudden be an asset. Usually we view this trip as a one way trip. If you pass a hole, that's it. To be able to hover over a hole or adjust to hit better casting spots with the foot drive would be amazing.

monstahfish · 09-22-2020, 10:52 AM

Two things to keep in mind on the new outback and 360, their drives are more recessed than other models. Combine that with kickup fins and you're pretty solid. I did win a fishing kayak whitewater competition on the new outback when it was debuted at paddlesports retailer, though most of the other companies declined to enter. I was surprised cause Jackson had a booth right there and I would suspect a coosa which is a paddle kayak designed for light whitewater would have given me a run for my money. Also the front hatch on the new outback is only a half inch smaller or something and there is probably more volume inside and it's got a much bigger tankwell. The PA12 is super stable and has tons of storage too. I think your best bet is to go to a dealer and see what you feel most comfortable with.

absentx · 09-22-2020, 01:42 PM

Yes the larger tank well in the new outback is definitely appealing. I am pretty sure I measured it last year when I went to look at it and you could put a Yeti 65 back there with no mods, which is quite the appeal for this trip I do.

Is there a way on the PA to keep a paddle "at the ready" off to the right or left like on the Outback? I would most likely rig something up on the H-rail if not.

The problem if I go down the PA route is I would probably just want to get the 360, I mean it seems pretty amazing, but I have no idea where things are in the product cycle for a new model year, improvements based off the initial roll out etc. Are they even coming out with new model years this year with the Pandemic etc? Has the 360 been well received or seen largely as a really expensive toy that no one buys? I really hope it's doing well, it seems amazing.

jruiz · 09-22-2020, 03:02 PM

I feel that I wouldn't be able to reliably answer your question without experiencing this private/secluded cabin first hand for a minimum of one week. Only then will I be able to settle this debate. I will bring an outback but would need a PA supplied to make a comparison. If there are honey holes on this body of water, please send the coordinates via pm. You're welcome

absentx · 09-22-2020, 05:46 PM

awww Jruiz I have the Outback you have to supply the PA for the comparison, then you have a deal!!

monstahfish · 09-22-2020, 06:10 PM

If you're fishing structure, the 360 is a game changer. It really allows you to work your drift in the way you want as opposed to circling around and resetting constantly. I wouldn't expect any changes to the outback or 360 as they've just been upgraded.

09-19-2020, 08:20 PM	#1
absentx Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 47	Classic Outback vs Pro Angler question, hopefully a unique and challenging case... Hey all, Love the forum, been reading and casually posting for years. Not a coastal/sea fishermen, but today I come for some needed craft advice. I reside in the great state of Wisconsin, but consider this forum a gold standard for kayak fishing knowledge and opinion. I have been in a Hobie Mirage Outback since 2009. Just happened to check one out a dealership in 09 and fell in love, my Wife and I bought two of them. In 2015 we sold the 2009's and upgraded to the at the time brand new 2015 models with the greatly improved seats. Amazing crafts...they are what we currently have. Mine is a finely honed craft set up to the T for my style of fishing. However - nearly six years into ownership I have realized a few things and wanted to reach out for some advice. I long was on the Outback side of the Outback VS Pro Angler argument, but that is mainly because my Outback has served me well, but I am starting to realize that I might need to take a step back and make a more unbiased evaluation of the two crafts. Okay, let me get to the point and set the stage for my usage: 90% of my usage is at our cabin which is 300 miles from my permanent residence. I fish locally maybe once a year...very rarely. Most of the time if I am using our Outbacks, I am trailering them somewhere and I put them in directly at a landing or muscle them with the wheely cart to a good put in location. The main use for my Outback other than our cabin or other travel/expedition based weekend trips is a once a year, ten day river camping trip that involves carrying heavy loads on each man's boat. This trip is only possible because two or three guys who attend bring canoes and are able to take much extra weight. I strap a Yeti 45 or 50 to the back of my Outback plus all my camping gear under deck etc and I am significantly weighed down Further, this trip is on a shallow, fast moving river. While the incidents of ratable rapids are few, when they do occur, they can flip or screw up any craft, especially one loaded for ten days of camping. My buddy has a Mirage Oasis and it kind of handles like a missle in the River, but I always tell him that my Outback handles more like a tank in the current. I find it takes a combination of paddle and rudder to keep the nose of the Outback under control in a swift river. When I have my rudder down, my buddy with the Oasis says I am "cheapening the experience" I tell him "you don't know how loose the nose of this thing is!!" So - given my use case, would a 12 or 14 foot PA perhaps be a better boat? Portability is of low concern since I use a trailer 90 percent of the time anyways. Further, when at our cabin and not on the ten day river trip, I just keep the kayak at the dock in the water ready to go fishing at any time. Also - considered the new Outback last year, but I don't like the reduction in size of the front hatch...hard enough to shove tent, sleeping bag etc into the 2015, don't need a smaller front hatch! I want to be more helpful on the River trip by being able to carry more things, so a bigger more stable boat would help, but I also have no idea how a PA would perform in shallow river with some rocky rapids. Assume if it was a PA 12 I would max out at 500 pounds and if it was a PA 14 I would max out the 600 pound rating! 90% of the time, I find my Outback glides through the rapids wonderfully with only use of the rudder. I did however pick a bad line on our most recent trip and had hit a nasty craft-eating rock and had a real eye opening near flip incident. Any and all feedback appreciated!

09-20-2020, 12:17 PM	#2
surfshotmoto Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 41	I have both. The Pro Angler is perfect for ocean fishing. That is it as far as I am concerned. It to big and heavy for anything else. It is brilliant in this environment though. For smaller water and rivers I wouldn’t even consider it. The Outback is so much more nimble. I would hate trying to move the Pro Angler around in any tight water. It would be like taking a bus down a river. Not fun. Just my two cents. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

09-20-2020, 02:48 PM	#3
absentx Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 47	This is excellent information and thank you very much! Keep the good info coming. Maybe I need to really look at the 2019 and newer Outback.

09-21-2020, 12:22 AM	#4
Flounder Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 101	I have a pa12 and use a ob on occasion for ocean fishing. I grew up fishing rivers with driftboats and yakking with sit ins. As long as you don’t have to portage the pa would do well with the extra loads draft is still pretty shallow, but you won’t make it upstream paddling very long. It’s responsiveness is that of a canoe but if you understand that you could pull it off. Hell my pa is smaller than my first canoe that I took down the river all the time. Also the double steering handles get in the way of the paddle all the time, takes some getting used to.

09-21-2020, 02:56 AM	#5
JohnMckroidJr Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 1,945	I have used the new outback for about a year, and have used the PA14 for 5 years. A sail rudder on the PA helps reduce the sluggishness. Never done anything but saltwater fishing with both. If you are not in a hurry to get anywhere, the PA is so much more comfortable than the Outback. Good luck with your decision.

09-21-2020, 10:11 AM	#6
monstahfish Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 421	Here's some good info on this from people who do it all the time and have all the options available. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd0xTALYbWE

09-21-2020, 02:03 PM	#7
absentx Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 47	ah great video! They definitely make the case there. But, I have also severely bent my conventional Mirage drive doing the same thing. I assume the new kick up fins would make all the difference in a rocky river situation. There are a lot of scenarios though where things can get ugly in a shallow river with a mirage drive. First lets say you beached it or have to get out of your boat to move it to another location to regain depth...well, the drive is impossible to get out of a boat that has no clearance below it, plus you would have to bungee the drive into the foot forward position while you are out of the boat otherwise the second you get it to deeper water your fins are falling down again and running into stuff. @flounder that is kind of what I figured re the canoe comment. It can't be worse than a canoe, so I figured that might make it okay...but again, I don't even take my drive along on this ten day trip because the River is so shallow and the drive would just get in the way. However - a drive with kick up fins that would avoid damage, might all of the sudden be an asset. Usually we view this trip as a one way trip. If you pass a hole, that's it. To be able to hover over a hole or adjust to hit better casting spots with the foot drive would be amazing.

09-22-2020, 10:52 AM	#8
monstahfish Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 421	Two things to keep in mind on the new outback and 360, their drives are more recessed than other models. Combine that with kickup fins and you're pretty solid. I did win a fishing kayak whitewater competition on the new outback when it was debuted at paddlesports retailer, though most of the other companies declined to enter. I was surprised cause Jackson had a booth right there and I would suspect a coosa which is a paddle kayak designed for light whitewater would have given me a run for my money. Also the front hatch on the new outback is only a half inch smaller or something and there is probably more volume inside and it's got a much bigger tankwell. The PA12 is super stable and has tons of storage too. I think your best bet is to go to a dealer and see what you feel most comfortable with.

09-22-2020, 01:42 PM	#9
absentx Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 47	Yes the larger tank well in the new outback is definitely appealing. I am pretty sure I measured it last year when I went to look at it and you could put a Yeti 65 back there with no mods, which is quite the appeal for this trip I do. Is there a way on the PA to keep a paddle "at the ready" off to the right or left like on the Outback? I would most likely rig something up on the H-rail if not. The problem if I go down the PA route is I would probably just want to get the 360, I mean it seems pretty amazing, but I have no idea where things are in the product cycle for a new model year, improvements based off the initial roll out etc. Are they even coming out with new model years this year with the Pandemic etc? Has the 360 been well received or seen largely as a really expensive toy that no one buys? I really hope it's doing well, it seems amazing.

09-22-2020, 03:02 PM	#10
jruiz Large Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: La Verne, CA Posts: 1,011	I feel that I wouldn't be able to reliably answer your question without experiencing this private/secluded cabin first hand for a minimum of one week. Only then will I be able to settle this debate. I will bring an outback but would need a PA supplied to make a comparison. If there are honey holes on this body of water, please send the coordinates via pm. You're welcome

09-22-2020, 05:46 PM	#11
absentx Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 47	awww Jruiz I have the Outback you have to supply the PA for the comparison, then you have a deal!!

09-22-2020, 06:10 PM	#12
monstahfish Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 421	If you're fishing structure, the 360 is a game changer. It really allows you to work your drift in the way you want as opposed to circling around and resetting constantly. I wouldn't expect any changes to the outback or 360 as they've just been upgraded.