trap on the fly? - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

stevie951 · 04-11-2018, 09:02 AM

Any of you do a trap style rig on your fly line? Or a similar style with a second hook near the butt trailing the first hook? Just curious cause I got burnt yesterday twice; spit out the bait twice after a couple of short runs, the back part of the bait was just raked.. Not a dog for sure.. I usually just hook through the nose with a fly so the bait can swim naturally, any recommendations or is that just part of the game

YakDout · 04-11-2018, 11:34 AM

Part of the game. Let the bait swim freely without the second hook. What size hook you using? How big of mackerel? Try going up in hook size one or two sizes, and Scale your drag down a bit so when a fish picks it up, it feels little to no resistance. Let em eat it for 5-10 and just wind on it if using a circle. If using a J set that thing 2-3 with some hard pulls.

Flounder · 04-11-2018, 02:04 PM

I started out using trap rigs but they catch too many LJ dogs. They have learned about missing a front hook but the trap gets em every damn time. I am getting away from them on everything but my bottom rigs. I hate those dogs but its not worth loosing line every trip out and probably f'n them up really bad.

Fiskadoro · 04-11-2018, 03:55 PM

No trap on the fly, but I have added them though occasionally especially when fishing in shallow water.

I often use a trap on the dropper loop if I'm getting a lot of halibut chewed bites. Generally if your getting halibut rakes on a flylined bait your letting the bait sit unattended too long. I.E. the bait is swimming down to the bottom and trying to hide. Spanish are notorious for this. If your getting a lot of raked baits and are not getting halibut bit with the dropper or standard halibut rigs there are two basic options. One is to run the fly short so there is no way for the bait to get to the bottom, the other is to put a one ounce egg weight on the line and put a swivel a few feet away from the bait. drop the bait to the bottom with the weight then crank it up several feet above the bottom then run it with a trap. That bait will swim around more then with a halibut rig, it will still get bit like a fly, but it's more controlled, always in the butt zone and trapped to boot. I've caught both halibut and white seabass using this trick.

However if you are fishing in shallow water under 20 feet neither of those apply so then I would just trap the bait.

So if that is not all controversial enough how about this: I rig my traps really weird.

I rig them with loops of spectra. If I'm fishing for halibut only I use 20lb green power pro spectra, of I'm fishing in areas I might get larger fish I use 30lb power pro spectra. I rig them both the same way.

I make a loop then tie the tag ends to the treble hook with a modified double improved clinch knot which is 100% with spectra. (this is the same not I use for big game offshore, attaching a double to swivel after a Bimini twist)

I tie up a bunch of these all at once with loops of varying lengths from two to six inches and different sized trebles. When fishing I tie my main hooks on normally.

If I want to add a trap I just attach it to the shank like this.

Note which side of the knot it is on

I've been fishing my traps like this for over a decade, never posted about it before and I just made those images, but basically no-one else has come up with this. (I've been waiting) I'm the only one I know doing it, I'm not going to write that best seller on rigging as planned, and it really works well..... so......since the proverbial catfish just got out of the killbag there are a ton of advantages to doing it this way.

First is the convenience. If you want at trap you just loop it on, you want to remove it loop it off. Loop on, loop off, it's just like a clapper.

Think about that a minute. Adding the trap is about as hard as hooking a new bait and takes about the same amount of time. Get a raked bait, stick on a trap with the next bait, don't get bit, remove it with the next bait, no re-rigging or knot tying needed. More direct If I had been in your shoes my next bait would of gone out with a trap.

That convenience also means that you can also constantly adjust the length of the trap to whatever baits you have which is a big deal if you are not buying, but making your bait. This is especially true with macks, with my method every bait is perfectly rigged with the right size and length trap.

Mono is clear but it has a much larger diameter then spectra and it also much stiffer. Twenty pound spectra is the diameter of fine thread, and it's completely limp with no plastic type memory, so naturally a trap rigged with spectra is hard for the fish to see. It's also camo, as green spectra looks like anchor worm gill threads which is something that fish are used to seeing all the time, and unlike mono it does not interfere with the baits ability to swim.

Yes the bait has a second hook in it but that's all that it's going to feel, and it will swim better with spectra.

Then there is the chew factor. If you fish traps as long as I have your going to get chewed. By that I mean when running mono traps in a good halibut bite you will soon notice the mono gets worked or nicked or worn and then you have to retie. This is a non issue with spectra, halibut teeth can not wear or cut it, even sharks can't cut it and even if they did you could just loop the bad one off and immediately loop a good one on. Since they are easy to take on and off I find I find that I just end up using the same ones trip after trip until they start to fray, and only have to tie up new ones a few times every season.

So there you have it. That is may take, you heard it here first...... Good luck if you choose to try it

Fiskadoro · 04-11-2018, 04:14 PM

All that said are you sure the baits were not getting nipped by barracuda? It happens

stevie951 · 04-11-2018, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiskadoro

All that said are you sure the baits were not getting nipped by barracuda? It happens

Dang, thanks for the info.. So I had two rigs out, one carolina, 3 oz sliding egg sinker easy 40-60 foot down and the fly i had out was no more than 20 feet behind me.. I think like YakDonut said, I just reeled too soon,, it got hit at first and went for a small run about 5 seconds, I looked back and thats when it took the bait again for a shorter run about 3 seconds as i was about to grab the rod it got spit up again.. I reeled in slow and nada, bait was dead for sure too and it had been put out a couple mins before so whatever it was did a number.. thats a super dope idea for the traps, i'm going to steal it because that sure beats the hell out of doing the standard trap rig with the two hooks two one line, leading and trailing..

Fiskadoro · 04-11-2018, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevie951

Dang, thanks for the info.. So I had two rigs out, one carolina, 3 oz sliding egg sinker easy 40-60 foot down and the fly i had out was no more than 20 feet behind me.. I think like YakDonut said, I just reeled too soon,, it got hit at first and went for a small run about 5 seconds, I looked back and thats when it took the bait again for a shorter run about 3 seconds as i was about to grab the rod it got spit up again.. I reeled in slow and nada, bait was dead for sure too and it had been put out a couple mins before so whatever it was did a number.. thats a super dope idea for the traps, i'm going to steal it because that sure beats the hell out of doing the standard trap rig with the two hooks two one line, leading and trailing..

Glad to help. I like coming up with my own rigging, that is one of my favorites. It's a good simple way to do it, and I've had nothing but good luck with it.

dpricenator · 04-12-2018, 07:24 AM

WOW! Thank you for that bit of golden knowledge. I guess I'm off to Walmart for some Spectra and T-hooks. Or maybe I'll swap out the trebles on a few

for the double assist hooks I just got. Then use those trebles for my traps. NOw I just need to go figure out that Super new and improved double cinch knot.

Flounder · 04-12-2018, 07:26 AM

I learned my new thing for the day thanks Fiskadoro!

Saba Slayer · 04-12-2018, 07:56 AM

"I just tie the treble on the main line,snell an offset eye hook above it, takes about a minute and you can slide the front hook for the size of the bait."

I also slide a swivel with about 12" to 18" of mono on the main line to attach the weight to and I tie a swivel on the end of the main line as a stopper for the weight swivel and to attach my leader with the trap hooks.

Henry and Pete taught me this inexpensive method back when Henry was commercially fishing Halibut in SM Bay. With the sliding snelled hook it makes it really easy to adjust for the size of bait you're using that day....and you can pre tie a bunch of them.

Tony Park and Paul Lebowitz did a great article in the latest WON on Halibut fishing...and Tony has caught a few biggies, so he knows what he's talking about...check out his tips...!

There are a lot of ways to skin a cat (or a Raccoon, Mitchell)...whatever works for your style of fishing and you are the most confident in is best way to go...

Jim / Saba Slayer

BigTunaL · 04-12-2018, 09:26 AM

Thanks for all the good info ... learn something new every day.

dpricenator · 04-12-2018, 11:57 AM

OK, I figured out the Double Improved Cinch knot thing.

This is going to be way easier than they way I was going to try it. I just made up 5 of these, in different lengths and will be hitting the depths off Dana Point this weekend.

Thanks for the tips.

Fiskadoro · 04-12-2018, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpricenator

OK, I figured out the Double Improved Cinch knot thing.

This is going to be way easier than they way I was going to try it. I just made up 5 of these, in different lengths and will be hitting the depths off Dana Point this weekend.

Thanks for the tips.

Ha Ha.... I just made you a video.

Fiskadoro · 04-12-2018, 01:04 PM

Hopefully you can see this but this is kind of the reverse of a clinch knot, in the you want to make a loop then wrap toward the hook rather the twist away from it, so the wraps come out perfectly flat for a 100% knot. That is 100lb test spectra, much heavier then I would ever use but it was more visible then 20lb.

Hope that helps. Good luck at Dana

Fiskadoro · 04-12-2018, 04:56 PM

Trap on, trap off.

dpricenator · 04-13-2018, 07:17 AM

Gracias! I had 30 lb SpiderWire Braid in the car, so I used that instead of the Power Pro Spectra. I got the biggest trebles Walmart had, but they are the RED hooks. Does that pose a problem for me?

Anyway, I tested the knot, using the post from the headrest in the back seat of my car, and a screwdriver on my end to pull on. I pulled HARD, and the right as the hook started to straighten out, the line broke. But it did not break at the knot. I must have been putting 50 lbs of pressure on that rig, so at the least I know the knot is good. I can't believe a cinch knot could hold like that using braid.

I'll tie the rest using the method in you video, if I get a chance to watch it today.

dpricenator · 04-13-2018, 07:21 AM

The 2nd video does not link to the tube. But I see the car you too to make sure the 2 lines lay flat as the wrap around. I didn't even think of that, because you don't have to thing about that with only one line. I may try some more today at lunch.

fongman · 04-13-2018, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiskadoro

Glad to help. I like coming up with my own rigging, that is one of my favorites......

What is your preferred method of attaching the trap hook to the bait? IOW, where is the entry point into the bait? Thanks!

taggermike · 04-22-2018, 01:19 PM

No trap hooks on a fly lined bait.
If you're getting short bit or missing bites try letting the fish eat the bait longer. If that doesn't work it might be small agressive fish that can't eat the bait any way.

04-11-2018, 09:02 AM	#1
stevie951 Lurker Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Riverside Posts: 431	trap on the fly? Any of you do a trap style rig on your fly line? Or a similar style with a second hook near the butt trailing the first hook? Just curious cause I got burnt yesterday twice; spit out the bait twice after a couple of short runs, the back part of the bait was just raked.. Not a dog for sure.. I usually just hook through the nose with a fly so the bait can swim naturally, any recommendations or is that just part of the game __________________ "A Reel expert can Tackle anything " ~Malibu Stealth-14 ~Malibu X-13

04-11-2018, 11:34 AM	#2
YakDout Brandon Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,345	trap on the fly? Part of the game. Let the bait swim freely without the second hook. What size hook you using? How big of mackerel? Try going up in hook size one or two sizes, and Scale your drag down a bit so when a fish picks it up, it feels little to no resistance. Let em eat it for 5-10 and just wind on it if using a circle. If using a J set that thing 2-3 with some hard pulls. Last edited by YakDout; 04-11-2018 at 02:59 PM.

04-11-2018, 03:55 PM	#4
Fiskadoro ....... Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,509	No trap on the fly, but I have added them though occasionally especially when fishing in shallow water. I often use a trap on the dropper loop if I'm getting a lot of halibut chewed bites. Generally if your getting halibut rakes on a flylined bait your letting the bait sit unattended too long. I.E. the bait is swimming down to the bottom and trying to hide. Spanish are notorious for this. If your getting a lot of raked baits and are not getting halibut bit with the dropper or standard halibut rigs there are two basic options. One is to run the fly short so there is no way for the bait to get to the bottom, the other is to put a one ounce egg weight on the line and put a swivel a few feet away from the bait. drop the bait to the bottom with the weight then crank it up several feet above the bottom then run it with a trap. That bait will swim around more then with a halibut rig, it will still get bit like a fly, but it's more controlled, always in the butt zone and trapped to boot. I've caught both halibut and white seabass using this trick. However if you are fishing in shallow water under 20 feet neither of those apply so then I would just trap the bait. So if that is not all controversial enough how about this: I rig my traps really weird. I rig them with loops of spectra. If I'm fishing for halibut only I use 20lb green power pro spectra, of I'm fishing in areas I might get larger fish I use 30lb power pro spectra. I rig them both the same way. I make a loop then tie the tag ends to the treble hook with a modified double improved clinch knot which is 100% with spectra. (this is the same not I use for big game offshore, attaching a double to swivel after a Bimini twist) I tie up a bunch of these all at once with loops of varying lengths from two to six inches and different sized trebles. When fishing I tie my main hooks on normally. If I want to add a trap I just attach it to the shank like this. Note which side of the knot it is on I've been fishing my traps like this for over a decade, never posted about it before and I just made those images, but basically no-one else has come up with this. (I've been waiting) I'm the only one I know doing it, I'm not going to write that best seller on rigging as planned, and it really works well..... so......since the proverbial catfish just got out of the killbag there are a ton of advantages to doing it this way. First is the convenience. If you want at trap you just loop it on, you want to remove it loop it off. Loop on, loop off, it's just like a clapper. Think about that a minute. Adding the trap is about as hard as hooking a new bait and takes about the same amount of time. Get a raked bait, stick on a trap with the next bait, don't get bit, remove it with the next bait, no re-rigging or knot tying needed. More direct If I had been in your shoes my next bait would of gone out with a trap. That convenience also means that you can also constantly adjust the length of the trap to whatever baits you have which is a big deal if you are not buying, but making your bait. This is especially true with macks, with my method every bait is perfectly rigged with the right size and length trap. Mono is clear but it has a much larger diameter then spectra and it also much stiffer. Twenty pound spectra is the diameter of fine thread, and it's completely limp with no plastic type memory, so naturally a trap rigged with spectra is hard for the fish to see. It's also camo, as green spectra looks like anchor worm gill threads which is something that fish are used to seeing all the time, and unlike mono it does not interfere with the baits ability to swim. Yes the bait has a second hook in it but that's all that it's going to feel, and it will swim better with spectra. Then there is the chew factor. If you fish traps as long as I have your going to get chewed. By that I mean when running mono traps in a good halibut bite you will soon notice the mono gets worked or nicked or worn and then you have to retie. This is a non issue with spectra, halibut teeth can not wear or cut it, even sharks can't cut it and even if they did you could just loop the bad one off and immediately loop a good one on. Since they are easy to take on and off I find I find that I just end up using the same ones trip after trip until they start to fray, and only have to tie up new ones a few times every season. So there you have it. That is may take, you heard it here first...... Good luck if you choose to try it Last edited by Fiskadoro; 04-11-2018 at 04:27 PM.

04-11-2018, 04:14 PM	#5
Fiskadoro ....... Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,509	All that said are you sure the baits were not getting nipped by barracuda? It happens Last edited by Fiskadoro; 04-11-2018 at 04:28 PM.

04-12-2018, 07:24 AM	#8
dpricenator Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: South OC Posts: 120	WOW! Thank you for that bit of golden knowledge. I guess I'm off to Walmart for some Spectra and T-hooks. Or maybe I'll swap out the trebles on a fewfor the double assist hooks I just got. Then use those trebles for my traps. NOw I just need to go figure out that Super new and improved double cinch knot.

04-11-2018, 02:04 PM	#3
Flounder Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 101	I started out using trap rigs but they catch too many LJ dogs. They have learned about missing a front hook but the trap gets em every damn time. I am getting away from them on everything but my bottom rigs. I hate those dogs but its not worth loosing line every trip out and probably f'n them up really bad.

04-12-2018, 07:26 AM	#9
Flounder Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 101	I learned my new thing for the day thanks Fiskadoro!

04-12-2018, 07:56 AM	#10
Saba Slayer Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Palos Verdes Posts: 1,857	trap... "I just tie the treble on the main line,snell an offset eye hook above it, takes about a minute and you can slide the front hook for the size of the bait." I also slide a swivel with about 12" to 18" of mono on the main line to attach the weight to and I tie a swivel on the end of the main line as a stopper for the weight swivel and to attach my leader with the trap hooks. Henry and Pete taught me this inexpensive method back when Henry was commercially fishing Halibut in SM Bay. With the sliding snelled hook it makes it really easy to adjust for the size of bait you're using that day....and you can pre tie a bunch of them. Tony Park and Paul Lebowitz did a great article in the latest WON on Halibut fishing...and Tony has caught a few biggies, so he knows what he's talking about...check out his tips...! There are a lot of ways to skin a cat (or a Raccoon, Mitchell)...whatever works for your style of fishing and you are the most confident in is best way to go... Jim / Saba Slayer __________________ Jim / Saba Slayer

04-12-2018, 09:26 AM	#11
BigTunaL Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Carlsbad Posts: 170	Thanks for all the good info ... learn something new every day. __________________

04-12-2018, 11:57 AM	#12
dpricenator Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: South OC Posts: 120	OK, I figured out the Double Improved Cinch knot thing. This is going to be way easier than they way I was going to try it. I just made up 5 of these, in different lengths and will be hitting the depths off Dana Point this weekend. Thanks for the tips.

04-12-2018, 01:04 PM	#14
Fiskadoro ....... Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,509	Hopefully you can see this but this is kind of the reverse of a clinch knot, in the you want to make a loop then wrap toward the hook rather the twist away from it, so the wraps come out perfectly flat for a 100% knot. That is 100lb test spectra, much heavier then I would ever use but it was more visible then 20lb. Hope that helps. Good luck at Dana Last edited by Fiskadoro; 04-12-2018 at 01:14 PM.

04-12-2018, 04:56 PM	#15
Fiskadoro ....... Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,509	Trap on, trap off.

04-13-2018, 07:17 AM	#16
dpricenator Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: South OC Posts: 120	Gracias! I had 30 lb SpiderWire Braid in the car, so I used that instead of the Power Pro Spectra. I got the biggest trebles Walmart had, but they are the RED hooks. Does that pose a problem for me? Anyway, I tested the knot, using the post from the headrest in the back seat of my car, and a screwdriver on my end to pull on. I pulled HARD, and the right as the hook started to straighten out, the line broke. But it did not break at the knot. I must have been putting 50 lbs of pressure on that rig, so at the least I know the knot is good. I can't believe a cinch knot could hold like that using braid. I'll tie the rest using the method in you video, if I get a chance to watch it today.

04-13-2018, 07:21 AM	#17
dpricenator Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: South OC Posts: 120	The 2nd video does not link to the tube. But I see the car you too to make sure the 2 lines lay flat as the wrap around. I didn't even think of that, because you don't have to thing about that with only one line. I may try some more today at lunch.

04-22-2018, 01:19 PM	#19
taggermike Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chula Vista Posts: 1,589	No trap hooks on a fly lined bait. If you're getting short bit or missing bites try letting the fish eat the bait longer. If that doesn't work it might be small agressive fish that can't eat the bait any way.