Trying to learn more about Rod and Reel setups

[goldenglory18]

All,

Looking at used rods and reels around this and other forums, I think I'm realizing that I still don't know enough about the saltwater gear as I should.

Does anyone have handy, or know of a good read that I can dive into that explains the "three setups" rule? 15-30, 30-40, 40-50lbs? That's line weights right? Not fish weight? Does each one of those setups have a specific technique attached to it (like LMB setups) or is it more general than that?

Also, would anyone like to critique what I have so far and help guide me in filling the gaps?

Much appreciated as always!

- Kenny

[Mahigeer]

The numbers are listed tested line strength. I use braid of #60 or so and top it with 30-40 yards of mono, then tie the appropriate leader of about (5) feet long.

Some times the fish (yellowtails) are finicky and would become line shy.

Some times the fish are bigger and heavier line is needed.

If you are in the market to buy conventional reels, I highly recommend (2) speed reels.

Being so close to water on a kayak, no need for long rods.

I hope this is good start for you answer.

[alanw]

Lots of rod/tackle posts here if you search for them. Also BD has some good articles too. What are you targeting? Yellowtail? Bass? Rockfish? Lots of info around!

[Saba Slayer]

Go to one of the Fred Hall Shows and you can talk directly to the top rod manufacturers and suppliers about their products.
The Long Beach show is the first week of March. If you can't wait till then...the PCS Festival is February 17 thru 19...stop by the CCA CAL booth at either one and sign up so you can fish the "Battle of the Bays" tournaments in May and June.

[Deamon]

Hey GGloryH,

Deep breath, slow down. Don't get caught up in the hype. There are a lot of great setups at significant variation in pricing. I am on the low medium end of the budget scale. Here are my go-to's.

Terramar Inshore Tmc x70H
I put Daiwa X20 SHA reels on them. Many will say this reel is too small but they're just whiny jack offs, lol. A great kayak reel at a fair price and catches all of our fish. Nothing better than fighting big fish on good, smaller gear. It's the drags and line that really matter anyways. Try to buy your reels new.

Cal Star Grafightet 700 L
And a CS 700 ML
Solid solid backbone
These both have Shimano Toriums (16 & 20) but only because they carried over from my boating days. These reels suck as kayak reels unless you dry bag them on launch and landings, which is what I suggest for all of your reels.

The fiberglass or composite rods will hold up MUCH BETTER than straight graphite, esp if you bang your rods around.
Phenix SUCKS as kayak rods and their warranty is the ABSOLUTE WORST, trust me.

If you're the type, think abt buying your rods used. Take your time and troll bloody decks. Make sure there are no bruises and CLEAN ASS guides. You'll find guys dumping great rods at crazy low prices, if you're quick. I bought one of those Cal Stars for $90. Dude needed money. Also, Cal Star and Shimano have GREAT WARRANTY's if a rod breaks, trust me.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Jim

[goldenglory18]

Originally Posted by Deamon

Hey GGloryH,

Deep breath, slow down. Don't get caught up in the hype...

...Hope this helps. Good luck!

Jim

Haha, yeah, thanks Jim. I'm all about finding the deal, especially when it comes to quality used, or NIB stuff guys are off loading (I've done a few deals on BD.) Like most yak anglers, I'm a gearhead and enjoy the collecting and tinkering that comes with the hobby. I've just spent so long as a fresh water bass guy I'm still kinda lost on the salt gear.

[goldenglory18]

Originally Posted by Mahigeer

The numbers are listed tested line strength. I use braid of #60 or so and top it with 30-40 yards of mono, then tie the appropriate leader of about (5) feet long.

Some times the fish (yellowtails) are finicky and would become line shy.

Some times the fish are bigger and need heavier line is needed.

If you are in the market to buy conventional reels, I highly recommend (2) speed reels.

Being so close to water on a kayak, no need for long rods.

I hope this is good start for you answer.

Just saw this post. This helps a lot. Thanks!

[taggermike]

Gear choice can get confusing.
What I bring often depends on the season and what I plan on fishing for.
But the out fits I always take are a surface iron rod. A heavy bait rod. And a lighter general purpose rod for sibiki or lighter baits.
Additional gear would be a heavy bait caster if I'm after calico bass. A lighter jig stick if smaller fish are on the surface. Or a heavy out fit for yo-yo.

Nothing wrong with bringing 6 rods and 4-6 plano boxes. But over the years Ive whittled down what I bring. Usually 4 rods, 1 plano box, 2 fluerocarbon leader spools, and a small water proof box with a few extra sibikis and maybe a dozen circle hooks.

If you're fairly new to yak fishing and want to fish LJ I'd recomend starting with a bait stick that will handle line up to 40 lb. There are lots of ways to target yellow tail but live bait fishing (IMO) is the most effective, easiest, and simplest technique. As you see how you'll be fishing and what you want to fish for you can add other out fits. Mike.

[Mahigeer]

I forgot to mention before that if you plan to catch your own bait with Sabiki rigs, this rod is the best to have on a kayak or anywhere else for that matter.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AHI-RSB-800-...gAAOSwBahVNP6l

It stores the rig with six hooks inside (rod is hollow) when not used to keep the hooks from snagging to everything in its proximity.

Turner Booth at the Fred Hall Show usually has them at the reduced price, or with free rigs.

If you get one a low profile bait casting reel is the best for this rod. Even though other kind of reels can be used.

[BIG JOAQUIN]

If you are just starting, get a 30lb rod&reel combo. A rod rated for 20-40lb mono and a reel that can carry up to 300 yards of 50-65lb braid. Use 20-40lb leader based on current conditions. Smile and have some fun.

Be carful with kayak selection as some have cosmetic blems which may have an effect on how you determine their value.

[King Saba]

Originally Posted by Mahigeer

I forgot to mention before that if you plan to catch your own bait with Sabiki rigs, this rod is the best to have on a kayak or anywhere else for that matter.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AHI-RSB-800-...gAAOSwBahVNP6l

It stores the rig with six hooks inside (rod is hollow) when not used to keep the hooks from snagging to everything in its proximity.

Turner Booth at the Fred Hall Show usually has them at the reduced price, or with free rigs.

If you get one a low profile bait casting reel is the best for this rod. Even though other kind of reels can be used.

I get around the sabiki snagging issue by trimming the rig in half and adding a swivel afterwards. 6 mackerel on the end of your line can be a headache on a kayak.

[surfisher]

Never ever leave your house without a surface iron rod and a good swimming jig tied on. I've learned that lesson a few times, even if its dead winter and cold as shit, always bring your surface iron rod!

Anyways, I like using small gear too because it's much lighter and less bulky. The daiwa 20 is an awesome little reel and holds more than enough braided line; I don't think I've ever had a fish dump more than half my spool on it. The reels are tanks and can take a beating and still keep chugging along.

[goldenglory18]

Originally Posted by BIG JOAQUIN

...Be carful with kayak selection as some have cosmetic blems which may have an effect on how you determine their value.

LOL, dear Lord.....

Originally Posted by BIG JOAQUIN

...If you are just starting, get a 30lb rod&reel combo. A rod rated for 20-40lb mono and a reel that can carry up to 300 yards of 50-65lb braid. Use 20-40lb leader based on current conditions. Smile and have some fun.

Originally Posted by surfisher

Never ever leave your house without a surface iron rod and a good swimming jig tied on. I've learned that lesson a few times, even if its dead winter and cold as shit, always bring your surface iron rod!

I think this is the connection I'm missing. What's a Surface Iron Rod? A 30lbs setup? What's a swim jig setup, 40lbs? What do I throw with a 20-40lbs setup?

I think I just need to spend a lot of time researching and reading. My analytical brain is having a hard time connecting the dots.

[2-Stix]

Here is ALL of my set ups:
Sabiki rod with little old school penn 150

Shimano Curado 300e
Plastics/lite flyliner/squid strips
Calstar GFGR-800XL 8' 10-25
20/50# floro/braid

Avet SX 5.3 MC
Medium flyliner/surface irons
Calstar GFDH-800ML 8’ 15-40
30/50# floro/braid

Avet MXJ 6/4
Heavy Irons/surface Irons
Calstar GG 690J 9' 20-50
40/65# floro/braid

Avet MXL 6/4 Raptor
Dropper Loop/back up heavy flyliner
Calstar GFGR-700M 7’ 20-50
40/65# floro/braid

Avet JX 6/3 MC
Heavy flyliner/back up dropper loop
Calstar GFDH-800MH 8’ 20-50
40/65# floro/braid

I generally take the 3-5 sets ups. Sabiki if I am not fishing squid and need to make bait, the bass rod if fishing the kelp, the dropper set up always, the heavy flyliner always and the jig stick always.

I use these set ups on the charters and the yak. I did not start out fishing this quality of gear. After about 6-8 months I upgraded most of my gear and sold off the other gear. I took a 20 year break.

[chris138]

Sub-thread:

Sibiki rods and how worthless they are...

1. no flex easily lets mackerel shake off the hook, and has zero sensitivity.
2. no ability to switch them over to another setup once bait is made, like a backup flyline or iron
3. virtually impossible to re-thread on the water if sibiki breaks
4. internal line routing which is supposed to eliminate tangles, actually tangles the sibiki and it gets stuck inside

The only thing more ridiculous than sibiki rods are people who use an ultra light tackle for sibiki. I don't get it... do you want to spend 5 minutes landing 2 small greenbacks? 65# spec on sibiki WTF.

Actually, 65# spec on all rods. IMO, every rod you have onboard should be capable of landing the largest fish you are targeting.

Bait rod: TLD15 paired with uglystick tiger medium 7', 65# spec... $140 total and can easily hang with any fish you will encounter. Plus, you wont want to shoot yourself when you dump it in the surf.

Jig rod: saltist or sealine paired with a cheap 7' medium heavy rod and straight 40-50 lb mono.

The best kayak rig is one that you don't mind losing in the drink... unless i get sponsored by shimano then I can just dump Trinidad's for days and give zero fux haha

^If 2-stix yard sales at the launch, he's out $2-3k. If i lose all my shit its like 600$.

[goldenglory18]

Originally Posted by 2-Stix

Here is ALL of my set ups:

...

I generally take the 3-5 sets ups. Sabiki if I am not fishing squid and need to make bait, the bass rod if fishing the kelp, the dropper set up always, the heavy flyliner always and the jig stick always.

I use these set ups on the charters and the yak. I did not start out fishing this quality of gear. After about 6-8 months I upgraded most of my gear and sold off the other gear. I took a 20 year break.

Wow, awesome post.

My neurotic self loves the fact you have (mostly) matching gear. I did that with my freshwater bass gear and always felt confident on the water.

For your iron presentations, where is your designation on whats "light" and "heavy" iron? All of the rigs I have now, I can only confidently throw lures around 6oz, and even that is pushing it....

[YakDout]

I tend to fish for yellowtail with gear that most people would use calico bass fishing. But I like to stay on the lighter side of the spectrum for gear. I landed a 44lb mossback last march on a rod rated 10-20 with no problems. Also this past october landed 2-3 roosterfish over 35lbs with a lexa 300 and a different 10-20lb rod. Different strokes for different folks, but I like to feel the fishes..

[Mahigeer]

Sibiki rods and how worthless they are...
With all due respect I disagree.
Having used both lengths for many years. Caught many bait and when done simply unattached the top section while leaving the rig inside and transported in a trunk.

1. no flex easily lets mackerel shake off the hook, and has zero sensitivity.
Flex and sensitivity are not needed to catch bait. They hook themselves.

2. no ability to switch them over to another setup once bait is made, like a backup flyline or iron
With attachment of a snap swivel to the main line, one can change rigs if needed in emergency. However, the beauty of the rod is to house the Sabiki rig easily, quickly and safely once done catching bait.

3. virtually impossible to re-thread on the water if sibiki breaks
A heavy test line, piano wire, flatten small split sinker and/or a large paper clip can help in re-threading the new line.

4. internal line routing which is supposed to eliminate tangles, actually tangles the sibiki and it gets stuck inside
There is a limit on how big of a hook to use. Size 6 or 8 are best for bait fishing. There is also a limit on the length, but removing one or two hooks does not affect the functionality of bait rigs.

When it comes to fishing gear there are many choices, because there are many personal preferences by anglers.

My recommendation is due to firsthand experience.

I have no affiliation with Ahi or sellers.

[alanw]

I used to carry around a dedicated bait rod, then realized how dumb that was because I have more important uses for my limited rod holders and decided against getting a sabiki rod. Now I just use any available rod that has a hook attached, and run the hook through the swivel on the sabiki rig. It could be a raw hook, a swim bait, a jig, doesn't matter. When done I just unhook the sabiki rig and stow it, then fish with my rod and I don't even need to retie anything.

[chris138]

Originally Posted by Mahigeer

With all due respect I disagree.
Having used both lengths for many years. Caught many bait and when done simply unattached the top section while leaving the rig inside and transported in a trunk.

1. no flex easily lets mackerel shake off the hook, and has zero sensitivity.
Flex and sensitivity are not needed to catch bait. They hook themselves.

2. no ability to switch them over to another setup once bait is made, like a backup flyline or iron
With attachment of a snap swivel to the main line, one can change rigs if needed in emergency. However, the beauty of the rod is to house the Sabiki rig easily, quickly and safely once done catching bait.

3. virtually impossible to re-thread on the water if sibiki breaks
A heavy test line, piano wire, flatten small split sinker and/or a large paper clip can help in re-threading the new line.

4. internal line routing which is supposed to eliminate tangles, actually tangles the sibiki and it gets stuck inside
There is a limit on how big of a hook to use. Size 6 or 8 are best for bait fishing. There is also a limit on the length, but removing one or two hooks does not affect the functionality of bait rigs.

When it comes to fishing gear there are many choices, because there are many personal preferences by anglers.

My recommendation is due to firsthand experience.

I have no affiliation with Ahi or sellers.

True, true. All these points are valid, but i will counter the first point about sensitivity not mattering when fishing for bait. There are many times when bait is so scarce, you might only get one or two swipes at the greenbacks. The flex in the rod is crucial, because the big greeny will swim upward and if you don't have a bend in your rod, the mackerel gets slack line which it can easily shake the hook, and usually shake off any other baits on the line. Not a huge problem if you wind fast and fish straight mono.

I would be delighted to see a post of some who landed a yt on a biki rod. Its happened to me many times when for whatever reason 1 or 2 of my rigs get completely fusterclucked, and my sibiki rod quickly becomes a dropperloop or flyline which then catches a fish.

As you said, its totally a matter of preference. The "unshielded" sibiki can definitely be a pain in the butt at times.