Surface iron rod opinion - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

ysmoose · 11-10-2015, 05:54 PM

I know winter is coming and surface iron fishing for yellowtail is slowing down but I wanted some input on a good rod for throwing tady 45s and c's.

Currently I'm debating between phenix abyss 809 and cousins cjb 80m. Reel I'm thinking of is penn fathom 25n.

Any thoughts? It does not have to be one of those two rods. Any input is appreciated.

surfisher · 11-10-2015, 08:54 PM

I have been experimenting with two different setups for surface irons lately. I use a lighter setup for calico's but something that is going to be strong enough to handle a yellow when they decide to bite. I also used this light setup a lot when paddy hopping because I like to throw a surface iron before bait, he rod has a ton of backbone and turned some yellows heads really easy... Then I have the other setup which is always on my yak and boat and will handle everything. Anyways, both work great and throw everything from tady aa's to salas 7x. If you're not fishing on a cattle boat often there really is no need to have a rod longer than 8' so the ones you mentioned will work perfectly, and personally I'd go with the phenix .... I used an 8' terramar all summer for surface iron and loved it, but I like trying new stuff for fun so these are my current setups below:

Light setup: 8'6 Terra Mar H (TMC86HB) + Lexa 400
Heavier setup: 9'0 Californian (CTX909H) + Torium 16HG

taggermike · 11-10-2015, 09:27 PM

I'm not familiar with cousin's rods, but I have an abyss jig stick (not sure of the # but 9' rated 20-40) and like it. I've heard nothing but good things about the fathoms and the 25n is a great size. Like surfisher wrote, from a kayak an old school 9-10' rod isn't really needed, and can be a pain in the ass. You can go with some thing like his lexa 400 on an 8' fast action rod n fish iron on what's basically a big beefy bait casting out fit. For a rod like that I love the seeker blue lightings. I know there are big trigger sticks in the teramar series too. Or use a conventional like the fathom on a deck hand style cork grip.

Another narrow conventional you might want to look at is the daiwa saltist or Seagate in the 35 size.

I learned surface iron fishing on party boats so I'm used to the feel of a longer rod. My other jig stick is a seeker ulua 93H with a Trinidad 16N. Way more rod than I need on a kayak but I just love it. Even from a seated position I can launch the irons. Mike

ysmoose · 11-11-2015, 12:17 AM

Thanks guys for the input guys. So, Phenix Abyss it is. I was just a little concerned because some guys think it's too noodly for jig stick, but I hear just as much good things about it. I've pulled on one, and although it's on the parabolic side, I kinda like it.

I really like the older Teramars (brown) than the new ones which are a little too stiff for me..the older ones are harder to find especially in the size I want.

I actually own a Saltist in the 30 size, and I like it a lot. I might consider going with the 35 over Penn Fathom 25n. I think both are great reels and can't go wrong with either one.

taggermike · 11-11-2015, 09:52 AM

The abyss is a parabolic rod, similar to classic all glass rods. Choice of fast or slow rods is a personal preference. Both have the potential to cast the same distance. I find slower rods cast lighter lures a bit better. Faster rods let you put more pressure on the fish. Which can be a mixed blessing on a kayak. I have pulled as hard as I could on my ulua with out maxing it out. My first fish on the abyss was a mean 27 lb yellow. I reached the point where pulling harder just bent the rod more but didn't put more pressure on the fish. Both of those situations were on boats. I cant see that happening on a kayak.
A buddy of mine has maybe 6 different jigs sticks. Including a full 10' ulua (fast rod) an old 10' harnell (super parabolic) and a 10' fiber glass boat antenna converted in to a jig stick. Seriously. (Almost unbelievably parabolic, think bull whip). I've used em all and they all cast great. Again personal preferance.
Maybe you can tell, long rod surface iron fishing is my favorite style. Mike

surfisher · 11-11-2015, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ysmoose

Thanks guys for the input guys. So, Phenix Abyss it is. I was just a little concerned because some guys think it's too noodly for jig stick, but I hear just as much good things about it. I've pulled on one, and although it's on the parabolic side, I kinda like it.

I really like the older Teramars (brown) than the new ones which are a little too stiff for me..the older ones are harder to find especially in the size I want.

I actually own a Saltist in the 30 size, and I like it a lot. I might consider going with the 35 over Penn Fathom 25n. I think both are great reels and can't go wrong with either one.

If you're looking for those older terra mars i know Anglers Tackle in Oceanside still carries them! Or at least 2 weeks ago they had them, may be worth giving them a call and seeing what they have! Like Mike said above, long rod fishing is so much fun, but it all comes down to preference.

phisher_man bossin-it · 11-12-2015, 04:51 PM

Honestly the abyss rods are very soft and will put some extra strain on you in the kayak. I had a 909 abyss(20-50) for a short bit and after catching a couple fish on it I did not like how soft even phenixs' heaviest model was. I bought the heaviest of their 9' models because I knew how light the abyss series was. It fishes 30lb decent but it is too soft for 40lb in my opinion. I was casting salas 7x, salas j-pot, and jri 7s. I don't use tady very often with the exception of a few older c's but the jri is almost exactly the same size,shape, and weight as a tady 45 and it casted very well on the abyss.I do use a teramar 90h for my kayak mostly and it is a much faster rod I actually have enjoyed fishing this rod on my kayak most. Extremely lightweight, great lifting power, great hook up and you can fish a range of lure and line sizes. I have fished everything from tady aa all the way up to Starman 112's on lines ranging from 25 to 40lb and the rod handles it all very well.

Also been using a 690j a lot this year as a dedicated 30lb rod and have also really loved. This is a glass rod so it is more parabolic but slings a jig for days.

I have been through quite a few reels and the fathoms(I have a 25n and a 30) are my favorite reel for casting a surface iron at this time! They spin better than most reels I've seen even after upgrades have been made to other reels. I also fish the toriums (16/20) and the saltist( i have the old silver models it will be a 30t) and they work great too. Best thing is the price tag on these reels is reasonable for most to afford. Don't know anything the seagate but have been wanting to try one. Newell are great too if you like old 332 or 338.

Hope this helps in your decision.

goletaslim · 11-13-2015, 07:50 PM

thought i would add my two cents.....i have a boat jig setup and a kayak jig setup, the difference being the cost of each setup. kayak fishing will torture your equipment and heavy equipment is really not needed as you will get pulled around with 30lb test and matching drag. on my yak i use a lexa 400 with 50lb braid to 40lb fluro matched with a graphtech gis80m 15-25lb rating. its cheap, smooth, and i know it can handle 30lb yellows no problem while still being a relatively cheap setup.

Cjopson · 11-15-2015, 10:11 AM

I am a big fan of the long rods. I have a new 10' that throws 7x's and 45's easy as pie and it has lots of power for pulling. If you are just looking for something solid to start using I like the seeker black classic 6490 (9') or the Calstar 100J or 100J Mag (Both 10'). The Mag is lighter but more expensive since its a mix of glass and composite but both have great action. For a reel I would go with a Daiwa Saltist BG 40. I am currently using the Sealine 40X and it does the job as well. I am going to upgrade to a Shimano Torium 30 soon. I personally am not a huge fan of the Seagates. They are much more liable to break while I have seen countless sealines and saltists take beatings and keep going, and if you are kayak fishing they will take the salt. (As long as you rinse them)

T-Rex · 11-15-2015, 02:58 PM

I've got a Phenix psw 869h paired with a penn 25Nld2. I use it primarily as a bait rod, but it tosses lighter irons fine. Not as good as a 10' Ulua and Saltist 40, but it gets the job done on the kayak.

TheToxicJon · 11-15-2015, 07:40 PM

I use a psw 809h phenix turkshead/torium 16 for big irons
And a split grip Seeker 80h/lexa300 for smaller calico type jigs

FlyFishinYakr · 11-15-2015, 11:38 PM

I guess I'm old school or just old but I prefer e-glass rods.

I have an old ('86) Calstar 690J with a Penn 99 (25#), my favorite is an original ('85) Seeker SJ85 with a Newell 322 (25#) and a Calstar 530 with a Penn 112H (30#).

I'm currently thinking about a Calstar 90J with a Trinidad 16N (with 50# braid & 30#TS).

FFY

11-10-2015, 05:54 PM	#1
ysmoose Junior Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 23	Surface iron rod opinion I know winter is coming and surface iron fishing for yellowtail is slowing down but I wanted some input on a good rod for throwing tady 45s and c's. Currently I'm debating between phenix abyss 809 and cousins cjb 80m. Reel I'm thinking of is penn fathom 25n. Any thoughts? It does not have to be one of those two rods. Any input is appreciated. Last edited by ysmoose; 11-10-2015 at 06:17 PM.

11-10-2015, 08:54 PM	#2
surfisher Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Carlsbad Posts: 388	I have been experimenting with two different setups for surface irons lately. I use a lighter setup for calico's but something that is going to be strong enough to handle a yellow when they decide to bite. I also used this light setup a lot when paddy hopping because I like to throw a surface iron before bait, he rod has a ton of backbone and turned some yellows heads really easy... Then I have the other setup which is always on my yak and boat and will handle everything. Anyways, both work great and throw everything from tady aa's to salas 7x. If you're not fishing on a cattle boat often there really is no need to have a rod longer than 8' so the ones you mentioned will work perfectly, and personally I'd go with the phenix .... I used an 8' terramar all summer for surface iron and loved it, but I like trying new stuff for fun so these are my current setups below: Light setup: 8'6 Terra Mar H (TMC86HB) + Lexa 400 Heavier setup: 9'0 Californian (CTX909H) + Torium 16HG __________________

11-15-2015, 02:58 PM	#10
T-Rex Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 770	I've got a Phenix psw 869h paired with a penn 25Nld2. I use it primarily as a bait rod, but it tosses lighter irons fine. Not as good as a 10' Ulua and Saltist 40, but it gets the job done on the kayak. __________________

11-10-2015, 09:27 PM	#3
taggermike Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chula Vista Posts: 1,589	I'm not familiar with cousin's rods, but I have an abyss jig stick (not sure of the # but 9' rated 20-40) and like it. I've heard nothing but good things about the fathoms and the 25n is a great size. Like surfisher wrote, from a kayak an old school 9-10' rod isn't really needed, and can be a pain in the ass. You can go with some thing like his lexa 400 on an 8' fast action rod n fish iron on what's basically a big beefy bait casting out fit. For a rod like that I love the seeker blue lightings. I know there are big trigger sticks in the teramar series too. Or use a conventional like the fathom on a deck hand style cork grip. Another narrow conventional you might want to look at is the daiwa saltist or Seagate in the 35 size. I learned surface iron fishing on party boats so I'm used to the feel of a longer rod. My other jig stick is a seeker ulua 93H with a Trinidad 16N. Way more rod than I need on a kayak but I just love it. Even from a seated position I can launch the irons. Mike

11-11-2015, 12:17 AM	#4
ysmoose Junior Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 23	Thanks guys for the input guys. So, Phenix Abyss it is. I was just a little concerned because some guys think it's too noodly for jig stick, but I hear just as much good things about it. I've pulled on one, and although it's on the parabolic side, I kinda like it. I really like the older Teramars (brown) than the new ones which are a little too stiff for me..the older ones are harder to find especially in the size I want. I actually own a Saltist in the 30 size, and I like it a lot. I might consider going with the 35 over Penn Fathom 25n. I think both are great reels and can't go wrong with either one.

11-11-2015, 09:52 AM	#5
taggermike Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chula Vista Posts: 1,589	The abyss is a parabolic rod, similar to classic all glass rods. Choice of fast or slow rods is a personal preference. Both have the potential to cast the same distance. I find slower rods cast lighter lures a bit better. Faster rods let you put more pressure on the fish. Which can be a mixed blessing on a kayak. I have pulled as hard as I could on my ulua with out maxing it out. My first fish on the abyss was a mean 27 lb yellow. I reached the point where pulling harder just bent the rod more but didn't put more pressure on the fish. Both of those situations were on boats. I cant see that happening on a kayak. A buddy of mine has maybe 6 different jigs sticks. Including a full 10' ulua (fast rod) an old 10' harnell (super parabolic) and a 10' fiber glass boat antenna converted in to a jig stick. Seriously. (Almost unbelievably parabolic, think bull whip). I've used em all and they all cast great. Again personal preferance. Maybe you can tell, long rod surface iron fishing is my favorite style. Mike

11-12-2015, 04:51 PM	#7
phisher_man bossin-it Junior Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: North county, SD, CA Posts: 16	Honestly the abyss rods are very soft and will put some extra strain on you in the kayak. I had a 909 abyss(20-50) for a short bit and after catching a couple fish on it I did not like how soft even phenixs' heaviest model was. I bought the heaviest of their 9' models because I knew how light the abyss series was. It fishes 30lb decent but it is too soft for 40lb in my opinion. I was casting salas 7x, salas j-pot, and jri 7s. I don't use tady very often with the exception of a few older c's but the jri is almost exactly the same size,shape, and weight as a tady 45 and it casted very well on the abyss.I do use a teramar 90h for my kayak mostly and it is a much faster rod I actually have enjoyed fishing this rod on my kayak most. Extremely lightweight, great lifting power, great hook up and you can fish a range of lure and line sizes. I have fished everything from tady aa all the way up to Starman 112's on lines ranging from 25 to 40lb and the rod handles it all very well. Also been using a 690j a lot this year as a dedicated 30lb rod and have also really loved. This is a glass rod so it is more parabolic but slings a jig for days. I have been through quite a few reels and the fathoms(I have a 25n and a 30) are my favorite reel for casting a surface iron at this time! They spin better than most reels I've seen even after upgrades have been made to other reels. I also fish the toriums (16/20) and the saltist( i have the old silver models it will be a 30t) and they work great too. Best thing is the price tag on these reels is reasonable for most to afford. Don't know anything the seagate but have been wanting to try one. Newell are great too if you like old 332 or 338. Hope this helps in your decision.

11-13-2015, 07:50 PM	#8
goletaslim Junior Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Goleta Posts: 16	thought i would add my two cents.....i have a boat jig setup and a kayak jig setup, the difference being the cost of each setup. kayak fishing will torture your equipment and heavy equipment is really not needed as you will get pulled around with 30lb test and matching drag. on my yak i use a lexa 400 with 50lb braid to 40lb fluro matched with a graphtech gis80m 15-25lb rating. its cheap, smooth, and i know it can handle 30lb yellows no problem while still being a relatively cheap setup.

11-15-2015, 10:11 AM	#9
Cjopson Junior Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 5	I am a big fan of the long rods. I have a new 10' that throws 7x's and 45's easy as pie and it has lots of power for pulling. If you are just looking for something solid to start using I like the seeker black classic 6490 (9') or the Calstar 100J or 100J Mag (Both 10'). The Mag is lighter but more expensive since its a mix of glass and composite but both have great action. For a reel I would go with a Daiwa Saltist BG 40. I am currently using the Sealine 40X and it does the job as well. I am going to upgrade to a Shimano Torium 30 soon. I personally am not a huge fan of the Seagates. They are much more liable to break while I have seen countless sealines and saltists take beatings and keep going, and if you are kayak fishing they will take the salt. (As long as you rinse them)

11-15-2015, 07:40 PM	#11
TheToxicJon Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 42	I use a psw 809h phenix turkshead/torium 16 for big irons And a split grip Seeker 80h/lexa300 for smaller calico type jigs

11-15-2015, 11:38 PM	#12
FlyFishinYakr Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Nor Cal...30 min from Bodega/Tomales Bay, 1hr from Clear Lake, 2+ hr to Berryessa & the Delta Posts: 729	I guess I'm old school or just old but I prefer e-glass rods. I have an old ('86) Calstar 690J with a Penn 99 (25#), my favorite is an original ('85) Seeker SJ85 with a Newell 322 (25#) and a Calstar 530 with a Penn 112H (30#). I'm currently thinking about a Calstar 90J with a Trinidad 16N (with 50# braid & 30#TS). FFY