Dropper loop problems? - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

surfisher · 04-01-2015, 04:23 PM

Have a question for those who use the dropper loop. I rarely fish live bait but today I went ahead and tried it. Dropped a mac down and once it hit the bottom I got into a nice fish (I assume good size halibut since I was a bit past the surf zone). Now here is the kicker, I was able to get it close to the yak but he made one last run which ultimately broke the dropper loop where I had my hook. Has anyone ever had this happen or is it time I just re-spool my line haha? I was on 40lb mono.

I attached a photo to show where it had broken.
dropper-lioop.jpg

GregAndrew · 04-01-2015, 04:33 PM

I would bet on a Leopard Shark. They can fight just like Halibut at times. But they are more likely to make runs at the top 1/3 of the water collumn. That part of the dropper loop is not a weak spot, so you were likely bit off. Even with old 40#, not many Halis are going to break you off.

YakDout · 04-01-2015, 04:43 PM

I switched from dropper loop connection to 3 way swivel set up and no complaints at all. Never switching back. 60% of the time, it works everytime.

JeffB · 04-01-2015, 05:51 PM

I was breaking in the same place after a cpl decent fish, or after a cpl of trips. I found if you feed the hook on first then tie the dropper it solves the problem. Now there is nothing you can do about rocks and toothy critters however. I always use fluoro as well. I tried saving money with mono and lost too many good fish last year. One nick in your line and it's trash.

igotpron · 04-01-2015, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YakDout

I switched from dropper loop connection to 3 way swivel set up and no complaints at all. Never switching back. 60% of the time, it works everytime.

If only I could get ratios that good. My success rate seems to be way worse then that. But maybe that's what keeps me going. The desire to know what it could of been.

dmrides · 04-01-2015, 07:18 PM

Do you push the loop through the eye and over the hook? Or tie the hook to the dropper loop?

When I do a dropper loop, I use a 4 turn surgeons knot for the loop and a palomar to tie the hook on. Haven't had one break off on a fish. As mentioned before, a 3 way swivel is also a great way to avoid most dropper loop problems.

skrilla · 04-01-2015, 08:03 PM

Lost too many great battles on the dropper loop. Now I use the 3 way swivel rig for drifting and a spider hitch for vertical presentations.

Dave k · 04-01-2015, 08:11 PM

Most people use the term "dropper loop" referring to the style of rig, but not the knot itself. The dropper loop knot has been proven to have a very low breaking strength. But based on where it's breaking, I think your knot from the loop to the hook might be an issue as well.

Switch your knot a to a spider hitch knot, or use a 3 way swivel rig like mentioned above. If you use the spider hitch, cut the loop and run one end to your hook, and one to the weight so you're not running a double like to the hook.

Fiskadoro · 04-01-2015, 08:28 PM

I've pretty much given upon the original dropper loop.

I do a lot of my own rigging, and here's a rig I came up with that works like a dropper loop with a few advantages. I came up with this about a few years back for fishing macks and smelt up north around Esco County and BKR. I call it the drop slide rig, my buddy who's now using it as well calls it the JD dropper.... LOL but we both have had very good luck with it.

Here's the logic behind it. I like the dropper loop for fishing macks because if you keep the line tight on the drop they can't twist up the line and I like the fact it keeps them under control and off the bottom when the rig is down. The drawbacks of a traditional dropper are the poor knot strength, the fact that if the fish takes the bait he has to take two lines in his mouth instead of one, and if you try to let them run with the bait they end up feeling the weight if they run much at all.

To get around all this I came up with this: I take a small 1/4 inch long piece of clear 3/16 tubing and slide it on my mainline. I then tie the hook on with a palomar knot. That's pretty much a 100% connection from the fish to the reel when hooked up. I then tie 2 1/2 feet of ten pound test fluoro to the center of the tube with a uni or improved clinch (my preference)I then I tie the other end of the ten pound to my weight.

When hanging with the line tight it hangs and fishes just like a dropper and the mack or bait can raise hell but he just can't tangle it, but if you get a hit or a bump you can slack your line and let the fish or bait run, because the line will slide right through the tube.

It's worked for me halibut white seabass and on some decent La Jolla yellows.

When that fish picked up the squid, I threw the reel in freespool in order to get the rod out of the holder. Since the line freely slid through the tube it felt nothing until I tightened the line, when I felt it and hit it. I don't know how far it went with the squid before I set the hook but I do know it didn't have to drag the weight around. Once I hooked up I had a clean solid connection to the fish. That yellowactually hung up the sinker in the rocks at one point and he just popped it off. In fact that rig in the picture is the exact same rig I caught the fish on. All I did was tie a new weight on it for the picture. Check out the chaffing he definitely worked it.

For me the biggest factor is strength. I've lost a lot of good fish to breakoffs with the standard dropper. This way is much stronger. For instance here's a big black seabass I got on it and released.

That's a pretty big fish, and I got that fish on forty spectra with a thirty fluoro topshot. I pulled really hard on it once I realized what it was, but it would not break off and I ended up releasing it on top. In my book the rigs as just as a 100% as flylining with a hook and you can't say that about many bottom rigs.

All and all the rig is not really any more visible the a dropper loop does everything it can do, but with some real advantages, but that is just my take.

Hopefully some of you guys will have use for this. It definitely has worked for me...

Jim

Raskal311 · 04-01-2015, 08:29 PM

Did you knot or just loop the hook? I broke off 5 big yellows on a trip before someone told me I needed to knot it.

AirborneYak · 04-01-2015, 08:41 PM

That looks like a really good alternative to the dropper loop. I'm going on a party boat this Friday and will try your method.

T-Rex · 04-01-2015, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmrides

Do you push the loop through the eye and over the hook? Or tie the hook to the dropper loop?

When I do a dropper loop, I use a 4 turn surgeons knot for the loop and a palomar to tie the hook on. Haven't had one break off on a fish. As mentioned before, a 3 way swivel is also a great way to avoid most dropper loop problems.

Ditto. Using a palomar to tie the hook on makes for a better connection -- if one strand gets a nick and breaks the other will hold fast. That being said, I've also started using 3-way swivels instead of a dropper loop setup.

Cadillyak · 04-01-2015, 08:59 PM

Fiskadoro, that is good stuff!

easyday · 04-01-2015, 09:21 PM

I've had good luck with these.

Easier than dealing with a 3 way

AirborneYak · 04-01-2015, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by easyday

I've had good luck with these.

Easier than dealing with a 3 way

What is that called and where can you get it?

easyday · 04-01-2015, 10:18 PM

Pretty much every tackle store has them I get mine at hogans in dana point. They have the braid safe ones. Otherwise the braid will eventually chew through the other ones.

These are the exact ones I use and I love them.
http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/produ...type%3Dproduct

I basically rig them up just like a Carolina rig, or you can use a swivel and it acts just like a 3 way but with less tangles. Or take the clip off and then it basically works exactly the same as the tubing trick.

surfisher · 04-01-2015, 10:58 PM

As always, thanks for the advice everyone! But damn, found my problem. I was just looping the hook instead of tying on the hook. The youtube video's don't tell you that part haha. It very well may have been a leopard shark, the water was too dirty for me too see what it was but it was definitely fun to pull on.

Fiskadoro I really like that concept! May have to give it a go!

Now that I think about it, anyone using a reverse dropper loop setup?

Sir LJ · 04-02-2015, 08:33 AM

@fishkadoro
How would you dropper loop a live bait?

bmercury · 04-02-2015, 11:01 AM

As others have said, the dropper loop knot is a very weak knot. It is ok to fish it but make sure drag is set appropriately taking into account the expected breaking strength. With that being said, there are better options!

FlyFishinYakr · 04-02-2015, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by easyday

Pretty much every tackle store has them I get mine at hogans in dana point. They have the braid safe ones. Otherwise the braid will eventually chew through the other ones.

These are the exact ones I use and I love them.
http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/produ...type%3Dproduct

I basically rig them up just like a Carolina rig, or you can use a swivel and it acts just like a 3 way but with less tangles. Or take the clip off and then it basically works exactly the same as the tubing trick.

These things are hard to find up here in no-mans land. I ordered bulk from eBay search Fishing Sliders (sorry can't find the link) with or without the snap.
I ordered the sliders only, then bought snaps with a lighter (40#) breakaway # test. I opted for losing a 3 oz. sinker over a 30#+

!
FFY

04-01-2015, 04:23 PM	#1
surfisher Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Carlsbad Posts: 388	Dropper loop problems? Have a question for those who use the dropper loop. I rarely fish live bait but today I went ahead and tried it. Dropped a mac down and once it hit the bottom I got into a nice fish (I assume good size halibut since I was a bit past the surf zone). Now here is the kicker, I was able to get it close to the yak but he made one last run which ultimately broke the dropper loop where I had my hook. Has anyone ever had this happen or is it time I just re-spool my line haha? I was on 40lb mono. I attached a photo to show where it had broken. dropper-lioop.jpg

04-01-2015, 05:51 PM	#4
JeffB Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: La Jolla Posts: 1,216	I was breaking in the same place after a cpl decent fish, or after a cpl of trips. I found if you feed the hook on first then tie the dropper it solves the problem. Now there is nothing you can do about rocks and toothy critters however. I always use fluoro as well. I tried saving money with mono and lost too many good fish last year. One nick in your line and it's trash. __________________ If you're looking for me I'm

04-01-2015, 08:03 PM	#7
skrilla Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: San Diego Posts: 664	Lost too many great battles on the dropper loop. Now I use the 3 way swivel rig for drifting and a spider hitch for vertical presentations. __________________ Urban Camo Trident 13

04-01-2015, 08:29 PM	#10
Raskal311 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Santa Ana/Westminster Posts: 1,256	Did you knot or just loop the hook? I broke off 5 big yellows on a trip before someone told me I needed to knot it. __________________ Kevin Yellow PA12

04-01-2015, 08:59 PM	#13
Cadillyak Team Get $$ Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 841	Fiskadoro, that is good stuff! __________________ The "Y" is silent 2012 Olive PA 12 2011 Papaya Outback

04-01-2015, 04:33 PM	#2
GregAndrew Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,384	I would bet on a Leopard Shark. They can fight just like Halibut at times. But they are more likely to make runs at the top 1/3 of the water collumn. That part of the dropper loop is not a weak spot, so you were likely bit off. Even with old 40#, not many Halis are going to break you off.

04-01-2015, 04:43 PM	#3
YakDout Brandon Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,345	I switched from dropper loop connection to 3 way swivel set up and no complaints at all. Never switching back. 60% of the time, it works everytime.

04-01-2015, 07:18 PM	#6
dmrides Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Point Loma Posts: 584	Do you push the loop through the eye and over the hook? Or tie the hook to the dropper loop? When I do a dropper loop, I use a 4 turn surgeons knot for the loop and a palomar to tie the hook on. Haven't had one break off on a fish. As mentioned before, a 3 way swivel is also a great way to avoid most dropper loop problems.

04-01-2015, 08:11 PM	#8
Dave k Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 110	Most people use the term "dropper loop" referring to the style of rig, but not the knot itself. The dropper loop knot has been proven to have a very low breaking strength. But based on where it's breaking, I think your knot from the loop to the hook might be an issue as well. Switch your knot a to a spider hitch knot, or use a 3 way swivel rig like mentioned above. If you use the spider hitch, cut the loop and run one end to your hook, and one to the weight so you're not running a double like to the hook.

04-01-2015, 08:28 PM	#9
Fiskadoro ....... Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,509	I've pretty much given upon the original dropper loop. I do a lot of my own rigging, and here's a rig I came up with that works like a dropper loop with a few advantages. I came up with this about a few years back for fishing macks and smelt up north around Esco County and BKR. I call it the drop slide rig, my buddy who's now using it as well calls it the JD dropper.... LOL but we both have had very good luck with it. Here's the logic behind it. I like the dropper loop for fishing macks because if you keep the line tight on the drop they can't twist up the line and I like the fact it keeps them under control and off the bottom when the rig is down. The drawbacks of a traditional dropper are the poor knot strength, the fact that if the fish takes the bait he has to take two lines in his mouth instead of one, and if you try to let them run with the bait they end up feeling the weight if they run much at all. To get around all this I came up with this: I take a small 1/4 inch long piece of clear 3/16 tubing and slide it on my mainline. I then tie the hook on with a palomar knot. That's pretty much a 100% connection from the fish to the reel when hooked up. I then tie 2 1/2 feet of ten pound test fluoro to the center of the tube with a uni or improved clinch (my preference)I then I tie the other end of the ten pound to my weight. When hanging with the line tight it hangs and fishes just like a dropper and the mack or bait can raise hell but he just can't tangle it, but if you get a hit or a bump you can slack your line and let the fish or bait run, because the line will slide right through the tube. It's worked for me halibut white seabass and on some decent La Jolla yellows. When that fish picked up the squid, I threw the reel in freespool in order to get the rod out of the holder. Since the line freely slid through the tube it felt nothing until I tightened the line, when I felt it and hit it. I don't know how far it went with the squid before I set the hook but I do know it didn't have to drag the weight around. Once I hooked up I had a clean solid connection to the fish. That yellowactually hung up the sinker in the rocks at one point and he just popped it off. In fact that rig in the picture is the exact same rig I caught the fish on. All I did was tie a new weight on it for the picture. Check out the chaffing he definitely worked it. For me the biggest factor is strength. I've lost a lot of good fish to breakoffs with the standard dropper. This way is much stronger. For instance here's a big black seabass I got on it and released. That's a pretty big fish, and I got that fish on forty spectra with a thirty fluoro topshot. I pulled really hard on it once I realized what it was, but it would not break off and I ended up releasing it on top. In my book the rigs as just as a 100% as flylining with a hook and you can't say that about many bottom rigs. All and all the rig is not really any more visible the a dropper loop does everything it can do, but with some real advantages, but that is just my take. Hopefully some of you guys will have use for this. It definitely has worked for me... Jim

04-01-2015, 08:41 PM	#11
AirborneYak Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Long Beach Posts: 366	That looks like a really good alternative to the dropper loop. I'm going on a party boat this Friday and will try your method.

04-01-2015, 09:21 PM	#14
easyday Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oceanside Posts: 1,470	I've had good luck with these. Easier than dealing with a 3 way __________________

04-01-2015, 10:18 PM	#16
easyday Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oceanside Posts: 1,470	Pretty much every tackle store has them I get mine at hogans in dana point. They have the braid safe ones. Otherwise the braid will eventually chew through the other ones. These are the exact ones I use and I love them. http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/produ...type%3Dproduct I basically rig them up just like a Carolina rig, or you can use a swivel and it acts just like a 3 way but with less tangles. Or take the clip off and then it basically works exactly the same as the tubing trick. __________________ Last edited by easyday; 04-01-2015 at 10:28 PM.

04-01-2015, 10:58 PM	#17
surfisher Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Carlsbad Posts: 388	As always, thanks for the advice everyone! But damn, found my problem. I was just looping the hook instead of tying on the hook. The youtube video's don't tell you that part haha. It very well may have been a leopard shark, the water was too dirty for me too see what it was but it was definitely fun to pull on. Fiskadoro I really like that concept! May have to give it a go! Now that I think about it, anyone using a reverse dropper loop setup? Last edited by surfisher; 04-01-2015 at 10:58 PM. Reason: added

04-02-2015, 08:33 AM	#18
Sir LJ Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Downey Posts: 88	@fishkadoro How would you dropper loop a live bait?

04-02-2015, 11:01 AM	#19
bmercury Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 103	As others have said, the dropper loop knot is a very weak knot. It is ok to fish it but make sure drag is set appropriately taking into account the expected breaking strength. With that being said, there are better options!