To Eat or Not To Eat? (Warning: Contains Graphic Images) - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

SquidJig · 11-10-2011, 06:31 PM

Does anyone know what this stuff is? I've never seen before. It resembles beach tar, grainy, black, and a little tough to break apart. It's everywhere in this fish, in the gut cavity, in connective tissue, in the flesh. It ranges in size from grains of sand to flattened peas. I don't have a problem with nearly invisible worms but this stuff is down right ugly. The fish tasted fine but I couldn't eat it without shredding it and picking out all the black stuff.

So, is fish like this better off in the dumpster? I guess it can't all pass inspection, right?

mtnbykr2 · 11-10-2011, 07:00 PM

freeze it....it will cook away anyhow....parasites

William Novotny · 11-10-2011, 07:00 PM

What kind if fish was it? maybe blood clots? weird

wiredantz · 11-10-2011, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtnbykr2

freeze it....it will cook away anyhow....parasites

You can always Charbroil it and eat it for extra flavor!!!

tasteslikechikn54 · 11-10-2011, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredantz

You can always Charbroil it and eat it for extra flavor!!!

Just marinate it in preparation H... Definitely fish hemorroids...

The Kid · 11-10-2011, 07:39 PM

Yikes

deepdvr · 11-10-2011, 07:46 PM

That is exactly why I release all the yellows I catch in the back of SD bay.

blitzburgh · 11-10-2011, 08:25 PM

If it's .410 1300FPS buckshot......sorry, my bad.

SquidJig · 11-10-2011, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepdvr

That is exactly why I release all the yellows I catch in the back of SD bay.

Thanks, Deepdvr. Now everyone knows my spot!

radastaff · 11-10-2011, 08:31 PM

grody
never seen that/this

worm castings?
cancer?
mercury deposits?
lead?

i would toss it myself

SquidJig · 11-10-2011, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Novotny

What kind if fish was it? maybe blood clots? weird

It was a YT. I was guessing blood clots caused by some wicked parasite. From the replies. This seems to be very rare. Bummer. Even when I get a good one, it's bad. I guess I'll just have to keep fishing.

DanaPT · 11-10-2011, 08:48 PM

how did it smell?

Podaker · 11-10-2011, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaPT

how did it smell?

like chicken!

tasteslikechikn54 · 11-11-2011, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaPT

how did it smell?

I would say it probably smelled like a chum bucket...

I would have tossed it... Tight lines...

pchen911 · 11-11-2011, 07:55 AM

Just cut it off and eat it. Do you think they throw away entire fillets if they see parasites when packaging the fish you buy at the supermarket?

addicted2sp33d · 11-11-2011, 08:38 AM

Save a few pieces, and take it to Hubbs... see what they say!

Maybe we'll all learn something!

Fiskadoro · 11-11-2011, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SquidJig

Does anyone know what this stuff is? I've never seen before. It resembles beach tar, grainy, black, and a little tough to break apart. It's everywhere in this fish, in the gut cavity, in connective tissue, in the flesh. It ranges in size from grains of sand to flattened peas. I don't have a problem with nearly invisible worms but this stuff is down right ugly. The fish tasted fine but I couldn't eat it without shredding it and picking out all the black stuff.

So, is fish like this better off in the dumpster? I guess it can't all pass inspection, right?

I've seen that stuff in one fish. A decent yellow I caught off Point Vicente about a decade ago. The substance looked felt and smelled just like some kind of petroleum based tar. Really weird stuff, that basically did not look like it even belonged in there.

On my fish the stuff was in his flesh around and old injury in the fishes back a actual healed over notch where it looked like it had been bitten by a shark. The weird thing is in that notch it had been attacked by really large parasites that looked like some form of anchor worms. I've never seen anything like them in other fish.

You can kind of see them in this pic.

That's an old pic I put up on Allcoast back in 2001...LOL Time flies when your having fun

Fiskadoro · 11-11-2011, 04:54 PM

OK I did some digging through some pics from back in 2001 and I found the archive I made for that trip on disc.

So it's back from October 14 2001, and here's a better pic of the parasites in the fishes back.

So those I think are some kind of anchor worm. All you can see is the tail end with the gills and filaments. Inside the flesh is the bulk of the worm surronded by a hard shell like structure they build inside with kind of a T at the end to hold them in place. I've seen anchor worms in yellows and Dorado an number of times but never any that were even close to being this big.

Now the reason I'm posting this is ever since I caught that fish I've wondered if the oily tar crap was there because of the original injury in the fishes back or it was there as some kind of by product of the worms. I mean the tar was right in the same area but it was not part of the worm. I've looked around online for it and never found anything that described the same thing till your post.

I always figured the tar was from the the original injury and the worms got in there later. Now since your fish has had the same thing I'm starting to think the tar might be some kind of waste product that came from the worms.

In my fish there were several chunks like yours but bigger some almost half an inch long. So I got to ask were there any hard shell like tubular structures near the tar in the flesh of your fish or visble worms associated with it?

You got more guts then I do by the way. Once I saw all that shit in the fish and smelled that oily smell I tossed my fish, but then again I caught it in the PCB Capital of California so I was pretty concerned about the idea of some kind of contamination.

Man looking over those old pics got me going. Here's a C-Bass from the same trip.

The next weekend I got into wide open Albicore 14 miles off Avila...

Now that was a trip. No fish under thirty the biggest 46 and after we filled all our chests then we caught and released 35 and 40 pound fish for hours, trying to break the fifty mark. Epic fishing back then.

Great stuff: thanks for your post. I always wondered if anyone else caught a fish with tar inside.

Jim

Fiskadoro · 11-11-2011, 06:53 PM

So I did some reading.

Turns out anchor worms are not true worms but crustaceons or more technically copepods. There are something like 13000 described species many more that have not been classified and about half of the known ones are parasitic. Copepods are specific to their environment so unlike worms you can't get a copepod infestation by eating them in fish. Think of them like extra protean: like fish with internal shrimp, or added mini lobsters in their flesh.

Still could not find anything on the tar. Seems to be a really rare phenomena.

There are so many species of Copepods out there it looks like it's almost impossible to find the life cycle of the exact version I posted above.

That said I now have a theory. If I had to guess I'd say if the tar does come from the anchor worms it's probably waste like copepod crap that normally is absorbed by the fish itself.

Many copepods don't use their host for food but for a good ride to food. I know with sharks they actually feed on small shit that ends up in the water when the sharks feed.

I'd say the copepods in this case are filter feeders kind of like barnacles or mussels. Over time they sweep in various food from the water surrounding the fish. Due to weird adaption of their anatomy when they shit the shit goes into the fish itself. I know that sounds weird, like you would think it's ass end would be outside the fish, but in strictly evolutionary terms there is no need for the copepod to evolve that way, so even though it's gills are in this case external to the fish out of necessity , it's waste or anal cavity is probably located in it's abdominal sections like with most copepods, and in this case it's probably inside the fish.

So the copepod most likely shits right into the fishes flesh, but that is usually not an issue since the amount is tiny and the fishes biology over time naturally just eliminates this through absorption and the excretion.

The deal is any inorganic substance like oil can't be absorbed by the fish.

So over time as the copepod feeds by taking in various organic and inorganic particles out of the surrounding water, it then shits what it can't digest into the flesh of the fishes flesh.

The fish can absorb and then eliminate any organic stuff in that waste however any non organic particles taken in by the copepod that get passed into the fish through the waste can not be eliminated.

The inorganic stuff gets caught in the fishes flesh and over time accumulates creating essentially a inorganic oily waste abscess. The fish creates a structure, a abscess wall, or capsule around this, formed by the fishes adjacent healthy cells in an attempt to keep the inorganic material from infecting neighboring structures. So you essentually end up with little tar balls abscesses in the fish.

The tar I found in my fish looked smelled and even acted like real tar. It even melted and burnt when heated with a lighter. That to me suggest it's real tar. The fact you found similar tar suggests it was not a single event isolated to the fishes injury but a biological process, and if that is true the above bio/waste-accumulation scenario is about the only way I can figure out how it could of possibly gotten in there.

The anchor worms in my fish were huge. about as big around as a pencil and maybe six to eight inches long. My take is theyay had been in there for a long long time. So even though the amount of inorganic oily crap, they may have ingested on a daily basis was extremely small, over the years since it had nowhere to it could of built up into sizable tar balls I found in the fish.

So eating the fish...Hhhhhmmmmm!!! Well if I had to guess: Though the copepods themselves present no danger the tar is a bunch of inorganic possibly toxic waste built up over time. That said the whole point of an abscess is to keep such crap isolated and out of the rest of the tissue. So probably the rest of the flesh is clean and edible but certainy would not cook or eat the tar. It's likely a tiny waste landmine or poison pill stuck in the rest of the clean healthy fish flesh, and it could likely be distributed into the rest of the meat by simply cooking it.

Like I said interesting stuff. Too bad one of us did not save the meat for analysis.

Jim

ful-rac · 11-11-2011, 10:37 PM

Aww man thats gross! Nice pictures though! Good info jim ive seen worms in fish and all sorts of parasites but never that big! You sure that thing ain't a huge fish tag worth a lot of money or a free rod???? J/k....

Yeah i wouldnt eat that fish either doesnt seem like a good idea id toss it personally.

11-10-2011, 07:00 PM	#3
William Novotny The carpetbagger Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: tha newps Posts: 1,474	What kind if fish was it? maybe blood clots? weird __________________ "The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope." http://www.badinfluencetattoo.com/gallery.php?artist=21

11-10-2011, 08:25 PM	#8
blitzburgh Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Menifee Posts: 2,509	If it's .410 1300FPS buckshot......sorry, my bad. __________________ ”The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.” ~Thomas Jefferson.........maybe

11-10-2011, 08:48 PM	#12
DanaPT Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: South OC Posts: 1,606	nasty tuna. how did it smell?

11-10-2011, 07:00 PM	#2
mtnbykr2 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: newbury park ca Posts: 2,323	freeze it....it will cook away anyhow....parasites

11-10-2011, 07:39 PM	#6
The Kid Loves Surface Irons Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 455	Yikes

11-10-2011, 07:46 PM	#7
deepdvr Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Carlsbad Posts: 591	That is exactly why I release all the yellows I catch in the back of SD bay.

11-10-2011, 08:31 PM	#10
radastaff Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 314	grody never seen that/this worm castings? cancer? mercury deposits? lead? i would toss it myself

11-11-2011, 07:55 AM	#15
pchen911 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 218	Just cut it off and eat it. Do you think they throw away entire fillets if they see parasites when packaging the fish you buy at the supermarket?

11-11-2011, 08:38 AM	#16
addicted2sp33d Here fishy fishy fishy... Join Date: May 2011 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 774	Save a few pieces, and take it to Hubbs... see what they say! Maybe we'll all learn something!

11-11-2011, 04:54 PM	#18
Fiskadoro ....... Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,509	OK I did some digging through some pics from back in 2001 and I found the archive I made for that trip on disc. So it's back from October 14 2001, and here's a better pic of the parasites in the fishes back. So those I think are some kind of anchor worm. All you can see is the tail end with the gills and filaments. Inside the flesh is the bulk of the worm surronded by a hard shell like structure they build inside with kind of a T at the end to hold them in place. I've seen anchor worms in yellows and Dorado an number of times but never any that were even close to being this big. Now the reason I'm posting this is ever since I caught that fish I've wondered if the oily tar crap was there because of the original injury in the fishes back or it was there as some kind of by product of the worms. I mean the tar was right in the same area but it was not part of the worm. I've looked around online for it and never found anything that described the same thing till your post. I always figured the tar was from the the original injury and the worms got in there later. Now since your fish has had the same thing I'm starting to think the tar might be some kind of waste product that came from the worms. In my fish there were several chunks like yours but bigger some almost half an inch long. So I got to ask were there any hard shell like tubular structures near the tar in the flesh of your fish or visble worms associated with it? You got more guts then I do by the way. Once I saw all that shit in the fish and smelled that oily smell I tossed my fish, but then again I caught it in the PCB Capital of California so I was pretty concerned about the idea of some kind of contamination. Man looking over those old pics got me going. Here's a C-Bass from the same trip. The next weekend I got into wide open Albicore 14 miles off Avila... Now that was a trip. No fish under thirty the biggest 46 and after we filled all our chests then we caught and released 35 and 40 pound fish for hours, trying to break the fifty mark. Epic fishing back then. Great stuff: thanks for your post. I always wondered if anyone else caught a fish with tar inside. Jim

11-11-2011, 06:53 PM	#19
Fiskadoro ....... Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,509	So I did some reading. Turns out anchor worms are not true worms but crustaceons or more technically copepods. There are something like 13000 described species many more that have not been classified and about half of the known ones are parasitic. Copepods are specific to their environment so unlike worms you can't get a copepod infestation by eating them in fish. Think of them like extra protean: like fish with internal shrimp, or added mini lobsters in their flesh. Still could not find anything on the tar. Seems to be a really rare phenomena. There are so many species of Copepods out there it looks like it's almost impossible to find the life cycle of the exact version I posted above. That said I now have a theory. If I had to guess I'd say if the tar does come from the anchor worms it's probably waste like copepod crap that normally is absorbed by the fish itself. Many copepods don't use their host for food but for a good ride to food. I know with sharks they actually feed on small shit that ends up in the water when the sharks feed. I'd say the copepods in this case are filter feeders kind of like barnacles or mussels. Over time they sweep in various food from the water surrounding the fish. Due to weird adaption of their anatomy when they shit the shit goes into the fish itself. I know that sounds weird, like you would think it's ass end would be outside the fish, but in strictly evolutionary terms there is no need for the copepod to evolve that way, so even though it's gills are in this case external to the fish out of necessity , it's waste or anal cavity is probably located in it's abdominal sections like with most copepods, and in this case it's probably inside the fish. So the copepod most likely shits right into the fishes flesh, but that is usually not an issue since the amount is tiny and the fishes biology over time naturally just eliminates this through absorption and the excretion. The deal is any inorganic substance like oil can't be absorbed by the fish. So over time as the copepod feeds by taking in various organic and inorganic particles out of the surrounding water, it then shits what it can't digest into the flesh of the fishes flesh. The fish can absorb and then eliminate any organic stuff in that waste however any non organic particles taken in by the copepod that get passed into the fish through the waste can not be eliminated. The inorganic stuff gets caught in the fishes flesh and over time accumulates creating essentially a inorganic oily waste abscess. The fish creates a structure, a abscess wall, or capsule around this, formed by the fishes adjacent healthy cells in an attempt to keep the inorganic material from infecting neighboring structures. So you essentually end up with little tar balls abscesses in the fish. The tar I found in my fish looked smelled and even acted like real tar. It even melted and burnt when heated with a lighter. That to me suggest it's real tar. The fact you found similar tar suggests it was not a single event isolated to the fishes injury but a biological process, and if that is true the above bio/waste-accumulation scenario is about the only way I can figure out how it could of possibly gotten in there. The anchor worms in my fish were huge. about as big around as a pencil and maybe six to eight inches long. My take is theyay had been in there for a long long time. So even though the amount of inorganic oily crap, they may have ingested on a daily basis was extremely small, over the years since it had nowhere to it could of built up into sizable tar balls I found in the fish. So eating the fish...Hhhhhmmmmm!!! Well if I had to guess: Though the copepods themselves present no danger the tar is a bunch of inorganic possibly toxic waste built up over time. That said the whole point of an abscess is to keep such crap isolated and out of the rest of the tissue. So probably the rest of the flesh is clean and edible but certainy would not cook or eat the tar. It's likely a tiny waste landmine or poison pill stuck in the rest of the clean healthy fish flesh, and it could likely be distributed into the rest of the meat by simply cooking it. Like I said interesting stuff. Too bad one of us did not save the meat for analysis. Jim

11-11-2011, 10:37 PM	#20
ful-rac Emperor Join Date: May 2009 Location: Buena Park Posts: 3,649	Aww man thats gross! Nice pictures though! Good info jim ive seen worms in fish and all sorts of parasites but never that big! You sure that thing ain't a huge fish tag worth a lot of money or a free rod???? J/k.... Yeah i wouldnt eat that fish either doesnt seem like a good idea id toss it personally.