Semi-dumb Question

[dsafety]

I went fishing off Oceanside today with my buddy Wayne, (Flatfish1). We were a little concerned about the potential for thunder storms but I convinced Wayne that we would be fine. (Oops!). So we are a couple miles off shore and just starting to figure out how to get the fish to bite when the sky darkens, the wind picks up and lightning starts to flash in the distance.

Rather than becoming candidates for this year's Darwin awards, we decided to head in. Just then the rain started to fall and the lightning strikes seemed to be getting very close. After one strike, Wayne said that he got a shock after touching one of his rods.

We made it in fine but the incident got me thinking about the wisdom of sitting on a little piece of plastic, miles from shore with a bunch of fiberglass rods pointing toward the clouds during a thunderstorm.

My question to anyone who really knows, is just how dangerous is this kind of behavior? I don't think that fiberglass rods would attract a lightning strike the way a metal rod would but if a guy in a kayak is the tallest thing around maybe the lightning would find him anyway.

If anyone has some insight, please share.

Bob

[fishinkid2010]

Well I can not say to much on kayaking in lighting, but I thought I would share my uncle's experience a few months ago here on the Gulf. They had a bolt of lighting hit a few yards off the bow of their boat when they were offshore. He said that it threw him on his ass out of his seat since he was touching the aluminum top of the Bertram. The bolt of lightning also made a large red fire ball about four feet across underwater. Sounds a bit scary!

Personally I would not like to be out in lightning in my kayak with a jig stick vertically in the air, but I would not be too overly concerned. But we get thunder storm offshore here all the time, and it is rare that you hear of anyone getting seriously hurt.... and these boats have some pretty tall outriggers that could act as lightning rods.

[JoeBeck]

I don't think it is a dumb question, good reason to research lightning and safety while caught on the water during a lighting storm.

Check out the fishing pole in this picture. This was my 1st thought is if your were out in a lightning storm might not be a good idea to be fishing during it, but I guess that also depends on what your rod is made out of and if you are having a bad day. Probably also not a good idea to be in a storm if you have a cheap aluminum paddle

http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_...ge_photos.html

Here is some more interesting info I just found.
http://nasdonline.org/document/209/d000007/boating-lightning-protection.html

[stairman]

I had a similar expirience about twenty year ago at la jolla while fishing a 16 aluminum boat.
We were ishing when a thunder torm moved from south bay directly at us.There were a few strikes around the entrance to mission bay and it was coming our way so we had to sit it out.Not enough fuel to run north.
As the storm approached one of our fishing rods started crackling and buzzing!We all just got a low a possible in the boat when a bolt struck about 1/4 mile away.....and there wasn't any tp available in the boat!

very spooky!But we all lived.

[cjthomas]

Regardless of the rods, being just three feet off the water, you're still the highest point around.

[dorado50]

Now I understand the meaning of "stay grounded"...been in many squalls,t-storms,and the edges of hurricanes,tropical depressions. Not a good feeling holding onto a metal steering wheel!. Important for everything metal to be grounded. "Thankyou Lord"....

[Ohana]

Considering salt water is a great conductor of electricity, the lightning can strike near you and you might still get electrocuted due to the salt water conduction if any part of you is in the water.

Also be aware you can be under sunny skies and a T-storm miles away can zap you. When I was in Florida we had a storm over our navy base inland (NAS Whiting) that sent a bolt out that hit a young boy at the beach near Pensacola even though he was under sunny skies at the beach.

Kevin

[bentrod1]

My family and I were enjoying a beautiful day in S.D. near Sea World (on the Ocean side near an amusement park) when off in the distance we heard thunder and saw lightning. The lifeguards told everyone to "get out of the water and off of the beach, head for cover". We did!

About 10 minutes later this T-storm came right over us as we took cover in the outdoor bathrooms. Women in mens, men in womens, cats playing with dogs it it was crazy. I later learned that's not even a good place to go. I managed a peak out toward the parking lot and saw lighting strike horizontally just over the top of the cars all the way across the lot. The hair was standing up on the back of my neck. Not sure if it was from electricity or fear but judging by the stains in my shorts, I'm guessing the latter.

So, long story short... I'm guessing they said get out of the water for a reason. With scupper holes and being surrounded by H2o, whether in plastic or not I would GTFO.

[dsafety]

So far we have had a lot of reasonable answers to the question. Basically the advice has been that if it looks dangerous, get out of Dodge. I agree with that.

Beyond behaving reasonably, I would really like to know if there is any actual evidence that being on the water in a kayak during a lightning storm puts one in grave danger. I have never heard of anyone being hit by lightning while on a kayak. On the other hand, I prefer not to be the first one to have that experience.

We need more information.

Bob

[StinkyMatt]

Went to NPB Friday around 4:30. As I am getting ready to launch, a distant thunder and a bolt. Now, I'm thinking...what did that post on BWE say about this??? So being the dumbass that I am I decide to go anyways. I only heard a couple more thunders that afternoon but rest assured your experience on the water will not be a relaxing one. I was worried the whole time and decided to cut it short.

I don't care what anyone says, when you get that weird feeling, listen to your gut. No fish is worth getting your ass zapped.

PS, Thanks Kevin for the info, got a few Spotties in the short time I was out there.

Matt

[Jimmyz123]

Best part about it is you did not get zapped. This was a great question, and in light of the Thunderstorms we have been seeing lately, I'm sure others are glad you asked also.

[cowboybill]

I was wondering this very thing?!?!

I think the hard part would be insulating yourself so you are the least likely path for electricity to flow through...Hard to do when you are at best inches above the water, and everything is wet with salt water!!

I will ask a few friends at the Ham Radio club (and post info)....A few are real sharp on this stuff (Practical, and theoretical), although I think I know what they are gonna say!!!

cowboybill

[dmrides]

This might be a really dumb answer, since I have no real understanding of how far electricity travels in salt water. But it would seem to me that if you were at risk of getting electrocuted, other than actually being struck by the bolt of course, so would the fish and there would be dead floating fish all over the place after every thunderstorm. Either way, I would get the F out of dodge if there was lightning on the water.

[RedSledTeam]

Don MacGorman, a physicist at the National Severe Storms Laboratory in Norman, Oklahoma. Had this to say on the subject

"Basically lightning stays more on the surface of the water rather than penetrating it. That's because water is a reasonably good conductor, and a good conductor keeps most of the current on the surface.
So, when lightning hits the water, the current zips across the surface in all directions. And if you're swimming anywhere in the vicinity, it'll probably hit you. But below the surface, most of the electricity is instantly neutralized. So the fish are generally spared.
Of course, if the fish happen to be surfacing, they're at risk just like you are. "
Dr. MacGorman adds that some electricity does penetrate the water, right at the strike point.

Read more: When lightning strikes the ocean why don't all the fish die? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/379932#ixzz11JAk361t

[RedSledTeam]

Enclosed is a link to answer your questions on lightning...Check ou the bottom line.....
































































































http://wiki.answers.com/Q/If_lightni...you_to_feel_it

• If you can hear thunder, the lightning strike has already occurred since thunder is only a sonic boom caused by lightning. In order for you to feel an electric shock an electric current must pass through your body. For a current to pass through your body, your body must complete the circuit from an electrostatically charged cloud to earth/ground (in this example the ocean is the electrical earth/ground). Salt water is a great conductor of electricity/lightning and thus would immediately discharge the lightning strike. Unless the strike actually hits you, you are not in the circuit and would therefore feel nothing from a strike into the ocean - no matter how close. Consider the case of a bird perched on a high voltage supply line (maybe 440,000 volts). The bird is charged with 440,000 volts of electricity alright, but there is no circuit to ground/earth/ocean, thus the bird is not electrocuted and feels nothing.

• The sea is not like your bath tub, as the sea is much much larger than even a very big bath tub. After all, there is lightning hitting some part of the oceans some place, some where, every minute of every day, isn't there? If it were just like dropping a radio into a bath tub, then people playing in the ocean at Virginia Beach would be shocked to death whenever lightning struck the water off the coast of South Africa. But we know that doesn't happen. Water has resistance. Salt water has a lower resistance than drinking water, but it does have some resistance. That resistance is cumulative per unit of volume of water. As the distance grows from the strike point to the observer, the amount of energy observable is less.

• Resistance is not the major determination whether the one feels it, it is dependant on the voltage and current in that strike (changed by how far electricity has to travel, humidity, size of clouds, etc.). To see why, look at how lightning works: friction, among other things, releases negative electrons in the sky. In a storm this charge of electrons that have no place to go become attracted to the positive charged earth and take that leap. They hit the water and spread. Everything that has room takes an electron (ionizes) and the charge dissipates. My speculation is that after 100 feet or so you probably wouldn't feel it too much. Is someone going to jump in the water during a storm? It isn't recommended.

• Salt water is a much better conductor than fresh. Salt water contains positive and negative ions (Na+ and Cl-), which lower its resistance. Fresh water, which contains fewer ions to transport charge, will have a higher resistance. Thinking about it a little longer: V=IR, where V = voltage, I = current, and R = resistance. In the case of a lightning bolt, I would imagine you could consider it a two resistor system, the water between you and the strike being the first resistor, and you being the second. Voltage will be supplied by the lightning bolt. The voltage will drop after traveling through the water. If there is enough voltage to provide a large enough current through yourself then you will feel it.

• What a person will feel (1ma), will kill them (10ma) is not directly based on distance from the strike, it is based on the voltage gradient (across the person), which is determined by the distance from the strike and the other paths that the charge can take to Earth. So, it is not linear or easily calculated because of the many different variables.

• First, pure water is an insulator. Salt and impurities make it conduct. Second, you cannot separate voltage, current and resistance. They are related to each other. The voltage of the lightning strike, along with the resistance of the water determines the current allowed to flow. Current is limited by resistance. Current can be increased by increasing voltage or decreasing resistance. Therefore, the distance from the strike will increase resistance and therefore decrease current; voltage will drop as well (as in a voltage divider circuit). There are several laws that I can think of, (multiples of resistance, etc) that would probably help answer the question, but it's just not that simple. It's not even known why lightning "chooses" the path it takes in the first place. Bottom line, if you can see lightning, get out of the water

[RedSledTeam]

Sorry about the big empty space on this post. My computer freaked out for a second...(must have been a lightning strike!)

[LakersFan]

Thanks for the excellent answers and explanation, RedSledTeam. Your empty space is forgiven!