DFG MEETING ROLL CALL!

[dos ballenas]

Originally Posted by dgax65

Unfortunately, it is a little bit too late for that revelation. We could have used the 1000 kayak anglers early in the process when it might have made a difference. Coming to the LAST meeting and saying, "Gee, more fishermen should come to these things" doesn't do us much good now. We needed that at every step throughout this process.
Glad you could make it to the meeting. At least you can tell your kids how a mix of corrupt politics and indifference resulted in permanent closures of our most productive fishing grounds.

you are right. More people early on would have made a big difference. But they probably still would have made their decisions behind closed doors. I think we have a much better off position with the DFG and that the DFG is sick of the way the BFTF has been abusing its power.

I was there yesterday. All I know is that the atmosphere would have been pretty heavy in that big room had it been wall to wall fishermen. More people now will make a difference. Its far from over. Saying that showing now up won't make a difference is pretty weak and undermines our side of the process, thanks. Oh ya, and this was not the last meeting...

I hope I can make it to the next one... sounds like its gonna be a longer drive, but its worth losing a day off now, so I can take more later.

[dgax65]

Originally Posted by Billy V

This game is far from over, and we can turn the tide if we are diligent.
SouthWest Airlines has Cheap Air Fares in Cali, and I intend on flying them when possible.

As you may have seen today ceded time requires that you accumulate 15 speaker cards in addition to your own for a 3 minute presentation, so attendance is going to play a crucial role at future meetings.

When they revisit this issue at later meetings, we might not be guaranteed a large turnout. We can hardly expect a large number of SoCal kayak fishermen to fly up to Sacramento. I think we need to work on developing clear, concise one minute presentations. We should use each available speaker to hit a specific point that we need to get across to the commission. I know that it feels good to get up there and give 'em hell, but we would be better served by using individuals to address specific aspects of our message.

I don't know about all of you, but I'm getting ready for some road trips. Follow the link for Fish and Game Commission 2010 meeting schedule.

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/meetings/2010/2010mtgs.asp

Most of the 2010 meetings are in central California. Keep checking that page to see when the meeting agendas are posted. You'll probably be notified as well if you're on the MLPA email list.

[FISHIONADO]

Originally Posted by dos ballenas

you are right. More people early on would have made a big difference. But they probably still would have made their decisions behind closed doors. I think we have a much better off position with the DFG and that the DFG is sick of the way the BFTF has been abusing its power.

I was there yesterday. All I know is that the atmosphere would have been pretty heavy in that big room had it been wall to wall fishermen. More people now will make a difference. Its far from over. Saying that showing now up won't make a difference is pretty weak and undermines our side of the process, thanks. Oh ya, and this was not the last meeting...

I hope I can make it to the next one... sounds like its gonna be a longer drive, but its worth losing a day off now, so I can take more later.

Doug's a good guy and deserves to be frustrated at the entire process, I saw that guy at nearly every meeting I attended and I know he drove up for some I couldn't attend. But you are right, let's continue to represent with the biggest number of folks possible. We can be proud of what we have done so far and there are still opportunities for success.

[Matt]

I 100 percent agree with Dos Ballenas! Please keep the attendance up! And if yesterday was your first meeting that you could make THANK YOU!

I spoke to a gentleman named Marcus who is a PB'er who mainly fishes in Mex, but is still willing to show up and fight for kayak fisherman's rights and said he would attend as many meetings as he could! Now you gotta applaud that and many others just like him, so get involved and let's save LJ!

[Matt]

I know more than a few of the LA guys are gonna be driving alot as will I and Billy V and i'm sure a few others! Please everyone make all the meetings that you can the DFG commission seems to be far more on our side than I ever expected!

And I agree with Dgax on the point of we should have multiple speakers who can get across specific points in a one minute speech that clearly emphasizes one or two specific points as we will not always be able to cede our times to assure ourselves of a 3minute time slot.

Roadtrip anyone?

[dgax65]

Originally Posted by dos ballenas

you are right. More people early on would have made a big difference. But they probably still would have made their decisions behind closed doors. I think we have a much better off position with the DFG and that the DFG is sick of the way the BFTF has been abusing its power.

I was there yesterday. All I know is that the atmosphere would have been pretty heavy in that big room had it been wall to wall fishermen. More people now will make a difference. Its far from over. Saying that showing now up won't make a difference is pretty weak and undermines our side of the process, thanks. Oh ya, and this was not the last meeting...

I hope I can make it to the next one... sounds like its gonna be a longer drive, but its worth losing a day off now, so I can take more later.

You are right; this wasn't the last meeting. The last meeting was back on November 10th. The MLPA meetings were the venue for input on this process. This is just trying to get the Fish and Game Commission to do what it hasn't done in the two previous rounds; reverse the BRTF recommendations. I don't mean to undermine our side. I am just pointing out the fact that greater participation during the actual process might have been more effective than trying to get the F&G Commission to reverse the BRTF's decision. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just looking at their past performance and trying to predict what is going to happen. Either way, it isn't going to stop me from attending the meetings. I never expected an outcome other than what we are stuck with right now. That didn't stop me from attending the meetings and speaking my mind. I don't mind tilting at windmills and I will fight for something I believe in, even if the odds appear insurmountable. To do otherwise would be, as you say, WEAK

[Matt]

Well in fact the brtf meetings were one hundred percent a rigged affair with Meg and her bought and paid for cronies shutting us down left and right. However no matter what there was always gonna be another MPA established in La Jolla, this was inevitable regardless no matter what we did. However the important thing to remember is that a group of proposals that have in fact been sent to the dfg commission can in fact be amended by the commission to say allow for not just coastal pelagic (bait) take north of the pier but also amend the current map 2 to allow for pelagic (yt, wsb, halibut, T's) take as well. Another amendment that they could make is for not extending the current preserve beyond what it is currently.

I am not saying any of this to bash anyones ideas or opinions, only to clearly stress to you all that it is of the utter most importance that we continue to keep up our pressure and presence at all of these dfg meetings. The Commisioner is now heavily questioning the BRTF and the maps and the science and methods that they used in the making of
the maps, and this is a very good thing for anyone that fishes! So please don't start to rest and slack off, now is when we need to push even harder. There is a very good chance that in the end we may walk out with much more fishing areas open then we ever could have ever agined possible!

So let's keep up the strong and united front!

[landwhale]

With the exception of a few meetings when I was to ill to attend I went to every one of them. The first meeting I attended was an information meeting before the RSG was chosen and then on to the first meetings as the RSG and their practice map making. Now not to bore you with the rest of the details I can tell you that we have made a huge difference. I will continue to attend all the meetings for the simple reason that it is what we need to do FINNISH WHAT WE STARTED with our heads held high!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[robmandel]

great seeing everyone yesterday again. think we did a great job again. as always !!

I had to bug out early so I missed the questions about the conflicts of interest from Richards. but glad I got to show how important safety is for kayakers.

would our earlier involvement been more helpful?

I am of two schools of thought, and please I mean no offense to anyone.

one, not in the slightest. I've looked into the connections and conflicts and believe entirely the "public" part of the process was a sham and that the outcome was preordained, bought and paid for. more will come out in the weeks and months ahead. and it's ugly for sure. the earlier maps which basically closed everything were done that way on purpose. that way, the still egregious closures appear to be more moderate, more compromise, etc. so, this was the plan all along, and the goal was how to get there. you never start negotiations with your bottom line, you always start asking for the world, that way you have something to "give". we were fucked from the beginning.

two, somewhat. LJ got spared devastating closures that we got in malibu. SD guys always had great turnout and we malibu guys kinda dropped the ball, or that there simply weren't as many of us, whatever. laguna too. now, as for the PV areas...well, that's another story!!

so, maybe it did, maybe it didn't.

either way, we fight from here.
:viki ng:

[shortstack]

I moved here from Michigan almost two years ago, I can't understand how anyone can see the MLPA is going to help!! I've herd both sides of the story, It makes no sense!!!!!! 30 years ago Lake Erie was so polluted that it actually caught on fire!! You couldn't eat the fish, and the fishery was almost non existent. This was the story with many lakes in MI and WI, The enviros and DFG or DNR all got together and found ways to improve the system, Not closing down fishing areas!!! Michigan today has some of the nations best fishing and hunting. Why are we letting the state gov rape the DFG of their role in Habitat recovery!!! Why are we letting the State rape the DFG of funds and JOBS!!!!!!! It all makes no sense to me when you see other states with successful Natural resource programs. The MLPA makes no sense!!!!

[dgax65]

I have to agree with Rob. To some degree, the outcome was preordained. The law is faulty, so it stands to reason that the process resulting from the law would be flawed. This is what happens when politics takes the place of sound fisheries or wildlife management. The law starts with the position that consumptive users are responsible for the all the ills of the ocean and that only by closing off large areas can this damage be repaired. Fishing didn't cause all the ocean's problems. There are other factors affecting this equation. And, certainly, recreational fishing does not have the same impact as commercial fishing. Even within the broad range of commercial fishing there are varying levels of environmental impact. Repairing the environmental damage would require a very difficult, expensive and multifaceted approach. That's too much heavy lifting for our timid and corrupt legislators. You can't expect them to take actions that might impact their fund raising sources. Instead, we got a law that targets only fishermen, a disparate community that can easily vilified. The environmentalists who pushed this law through the legislature already view all consumptive ocean users as criminals, guilty of crimes against nature. Targeting the consumptive users was easy and effective. The legislators can claim to have taken action on the issue and they don't have to worry about going up against a monolithic political force with lots of resources. So they get a political victory and we get more limits on personal freedom.

We started this process with a guarantee of getting screwed. We knew from the start that we were going to lose some of our best fishing grounds. The very process was rigged against us by the MLPA. All we could do was to try and limit the damage. Seeing what happened on the Central Coast should have been a serious wakeup call. Unfortunately, not enough people got involved. Would it have mattered? I don't know. We have been fighting this battle with facts, science, a gut-level understanding of the potential economic impact and knowledge borne of centuries of combined on-the-water experience. We faced an opponent so convinced of their moral superiority that they felt comfortable disregarding facts, making up rules on the fly, limiting public input and making secret deals to achieve their goals. We were never on a level playing field. No amount of factual data and impassioned pleas would entirely overcome the bad law and its corrupt implementation. All we could hope for is to create enough public outcry to win some small victories. It worked, to a degree, with Rocky Point. How much more could have been achieved with greater involvement of the fishing community will never be known, but we do know that we had some positive impact. Had we not been involved, we would have ended up with half the coast closed off with SMR's.

Thanks to Paul, Tyler, Billy, Chris, Greg and the dozens of others who put so much time and effort into this fight. Without them we would have been completely screwed.

I hope nobody misconstrues my comments as defeatism. I don't want my comments to keep people from being involved. Quite the opposite. I want people to know what we are up against. This isn't the only attack on our freedom and way of life. This is just one battle in a long-running war. There are hundreds of 'environmental' organizations out there; supported by government and private grants, staffed by full-time professional political activists and able to mobilize large numbers of sympathetic supporters (bussed in school kids and the like). We will always be at a disadvantage. That is why we must be more involved. We need to fight these threats. We must get involved early and often if we are to have any hope of turning back the tide. If there is anything to learn from the MLPA process is that we must be vigilant for new threats and we must respond quickly and forcefully; even if the odds are against us.

When I went to that first meeting in Old Town, I was pretty sure that we were going to get screwed by the MLPA process. That didn't stop me from getting involved. When we were making our pleas to limit the economic, safety and cultural impact of closures and Meg was busy chatting on her phone, I knew that the process was just a sham.....but that didn't stop me or many others from speaking our mind. We have to stay involved. Eventually we will turn the tide and our message will take hold. That won't happen if we give up.

[dos ballenas]

Originally Posted by dgax65

You are right; this wasn't the last meeting. The last meeting was back on November 10th. The MLPA meetings were the venue for input on this process. This is just trying to get the Fish and Game Commission to do what it hasn't done in the two previous rounds; reverse the BRTF recommendations. I don't mean to undermine our side. I am just pointing out the fact that greater participation during the actual process might have been more effective than trying to get the F&G Commission to reverse the BRTF's decision. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just looking at their past performance and trying to predict what is going to happen. Either way, it isn't going to stop me from attending the meetings. I never expected an outcome other than what we are stuck with right now. That didn't stop me from attending the meetings and speaking my mind. I don't mind tilting at windmills and I will fight for something I believe in, even if the odds appear insurmountable. To do otherwise would be, as you say, WEAK

I didn't mean to rattle ya buddy, my bad. But just because the DFG accepted the maps the BRTF put forward last coupla times doesn't mean it will be the same this time... especially given the recent allocations put forth to the BRFT.

That said, I feel these final meetings may be the most important meetings of all. Everything before now was simply smoke being blown up your bass. The DFG has the final say. Send those emails. Tell your friends to send emails. Tell them to tell their friends to send emails. The enviros sure as hell are sending them.

The fight is far from over. Dissention among the ranks and old news is bad for buisness. Its gonna be at least 1 year before we get any decision imo. Concentrate on the next meeting.