Grunion and MLPA

[TCS]

Gents,

Before I get into Grunion, let me just say that the turnout for the MLPA today had the fishermen outnumbering the seal huggers by a pretty good margin. Many of our bretheren made coherent and compelling statements to keep la jolla open to kayaks. For my own part, I was one of the last speakers, had my script ready to go and then this lady from Laguna Beach made a really lame argument that everything around there should be closed because it would be easier to tell who was breaking the rules.

Well, that got me a little miffed and I changed my talking points on about 5 seconds notice, said something lame about how martial law may be easier, but that doesn't make it good. I also managed to endorse all of the other supporters of leaving La Jolla north of Windansea open. To me the best statements were made by surfrider foundation, who has really taken their fishing constituency seriously. Credit to them for not endorsing a cookie cutter approach.

One guy got really angry, another one wanted to start a revolution, but for the most part it was a polite and productive showing. I didn't recognize Josh in a tie at first. He performed well.

Sorry for all the prelude. Now to the question. The grunion are running starting on Wednesday night. Can somebody please tell me how I can use that to my advantage and catch some fish? I would really appreciate it. PMs okay.

Thanks a bunch, Tom

[DESTROYER]

Grunion+Hook=Halibut...Usually

[Dan]

Good to hear about Surfrider. I met a few times with Stef and Joe from both local and national offices to help them see just how special La Jolla is to kayak fishing. They great people and I look forward to working with them on future issues that are important to me and Surfrider.

I know that their cross interest support for smart MPAs AND fishing rights/access has caused mucho friction and chapping from some of their other envrio buddies that work closely with them on water quality, beach access and other very important issues.

[robmandel]

Originally Posted by TCS

One guy got really angry, another one wanted to start a revolution, but for the most part it was a polite and productive showing

That would probably be me. I make no apologies for believing in freedom. Look, the reason they are doing it this way is simple. we (kayak fishermen) are a very small group and they WILL NOT stop when they are through with us. if you rode (note the past tense there) dirt bikes, or atv's, or whatever, you know full well what they have planned. if you hunted (again, past tense) you know full well what these people have in store.

any kayak fisherman, or any fisherman for that matter, that supports any "compromise" or any sort of closures, is making a deal with the devil. there is no compromise. period. you don't compromise liberty. you don't accept fishing, or freedom for that matter, as a grant from the state. it is ours at birth. any closures are a loss and if we go along with that, than we are saying that fishing is a privilege.

I received many compliments afterwards, and I hope they understand this is about far more than fishing. look at the whiny lady wanting to close off laguna due to sand erosion. whatever the hell does fishing offshore have to do with the sand on the beach. someone please tell me.........

still waiting.....

still waiting.....

okay, I thought so. remember, we are asking them for absolutely nothing. we don't want any money, special privileges, or anything else. absolutely f***ing nothing. they are taking, not your fishing grounds, but your liberty. I don't know about you, but to me, that's kinda important. what do I tell my kid who came up there with me when he asks why we can't fish?

we are harming nobody, causing nobody and loss or grievance. I don't take too kindly (that's an understatement I know) to being forcibly denied fishing off pt. dume, or la jolla, because some folks think it's not nice. that is denying us life, liberty, and property, without due process. something in the constitution or whatever the hell scrap of paper sits in the smithsonian.

anyways, remember, no matter how small the closures, no matter how much we think we saved, anything that is closed is a loss. they took from you.

and they will come back , and keep coming back, and keep at it, until you tell your grandchildren, "yeah sonny, way back when, grandpap useta fish of them waters. it was grand I tell ya'. ah, them was the golden days" and then you'll drift off into a sleepy stupor.

[tylerdurden]

Surf rider back peddled from previous perceived stances at this meeting I thought. They had a much more balanced and reasonable approach when I talked to them in person in the lobby. I think we may never completely agree, but can possibly come to a legit compromise.

We have to be polite. At all costs. We can question the bs in the process, we can disagree very strongly, but we cannot call anyone names or be rude. This is on the podium, in the audience, or lobby. It only hurts our cause. Please play nice.

[peguinpower]

Great turnout! SD really made a good showing. Great powerpoint presentation Tyler! John made a very emotional speech. Getting thrown out was a bonus.

Keep up the good fight guys. Your strength inspires us.

/bing

[joyjiggin']

I regret having to leave after 2 hrs. at the meeting. Looks like I missed a lot! I enjoyed what every person had to say about keeping kayak spots open. I, too, believe that fishing IS A RIGHT. It makes me ill to think that anyone would even think that kayakfishing destroys or diminishes the fish population or the beauty of our ocean. Fight on, kayakers!

[-scallywag-]

I'm still unclear as to why they threw John out?? because he named the actual person/people (public officials) who he was most disappointed with and why?? i didn't hear any profanity, what happened to the 1st amendment??

I loved Robs comments.

Grunion??? aren't those illegal to use for bait(or seasonal?)....

[THE DARKHORSE]

I didn't recognize Josh in a tie at first. He performed well.


Sorry for all the prelude. Now to the question. The grunion are running starting on Wednesday night. Can somebody please tell me how I can use that to my advantage and catch some fish? I would really appreciate it. PMs okay.

Thanks a bunch, Tom[/QUOTE]






I thought you did great,Tom. Nazi Germany?



Rob Mandel ...we all have the right to speak our mind.



This Halibut was recently caught amidst a school of Flounder, good ol' Sardine did the trick. The MLPA and Grunion are both pretty confusing.

[comrad_zeelaagee]

i'm with rob! good on ya' dude!

['Cuda]

The grunion theory is the halibut chase them into shore so find a beach with a steep drop off (like the one between Leo Carillo and Nicholas Canyon north of Malibu) and drag a mac or sardine (dead or alive) around and bounce a squid tipped plastic off the bottom in front during the last 2 hrs. of the incoming tide. Of course the variables are #1 the grunion don't show #2 the halibut fed all night by the light of the full moon #3 you couldn't make bait. I've had some success and rarely miss a run.

[tylerdurden]

Originally Posted by -scallywag-

I'm still unclear as to why they threw John out?? because he named the actual person/people (public officials) who he was most disappointed with and why?? )....

As soon as you mention someones name and call them directly or indirectly a pychopath you get in trouble. You can say you are dissapointed with their decisions, you can disagree with them and say why, but you can't call them names.

For those that are rightfuly angry about this whole thing, we all are. However please use that in a constructive way.

[buttchaser]

Tyler ,
The word I used was


sycophant (sĭk'ə-fənt,)
A servile self-seeker who attempts to win favor by flattering influential people.

[Matt]

Rob
You voiced your opinion and the way many, many, many of us feel very strongly. We all understand your frustration with the process and what can or may be caused by it. You definitely didn't choose the most "politically correct" way of voicing it I think everyone who fishes certainly understands why you said what you said and in one way or another definitely appreciates what you said.

Tyler, truly an awesome presentation by all accounts from what I have heard!!!!

While I certainly have no desire to lay down and accept what fate may come I chose a more shall we say toned down version, I spent most of the afternoon speaking to some coastkeeper higher ups and the 3 surfrider reps, taking the time to explain why the avenida de la playa launch is so important to keep open and not include a larger reserve in that general area of La Jolla then there already is. While ultimately I would much prefer to have all of La Jolla open and I stressed this heavily in our discussion if we have to lose some of it I encouraged that they take the south end more than the northern end (south endbeing the windansea to crystal pier area) trust me I don't want to see any of it closed at all but if we have to lose something I explained that, that would be the ideal compromise. We would still have the NW corner and such in this plan, along with the half, the 90/80ft curve and the "bump", which tends to be the area that is most productive for all of us and within the relative "easier" paddling distances from shore. I stressed also quite heavily that extending the current reserve out to the additional 3 mile mark would effectively destroy kayak fishing for all but the 1%er's who are able to make that safely and deal with the onslaught of possible conditions that would put a great many kayakers in harm's way.

I stressed heavily the importance of the safety issues surrounding the avenida de la playa launch versus the "other" safe launches and explained that Marine St. and Tourmaline are not actually "safe" alternatives due to large swell and shorebreak at Marine st. and due to the high, high amount of people that surf at Tourmaline and have absolutely no clue what they are doing and stressed that landing a kayak at either would only lead to more than a few people getting hurt everyday that someone launches there. (Hold on HEMAN I didn't say it was impossible to launch at either location just that it was more preferrable to have a much safer launch at LJ). The head of the S.D. Coastkeepers seemed to be pretty cool with the idea of keeping a safe launch open as did the folks at surfrider due in a large part to the safety issue of launching and landing at the other locations.

I also sincerely suggested the Tijuana Sloughs area as a great place to establish an MPA as there is zero kayak launches in that area that I know of. If there are and you fish that area please, please tell us or me ASAP, but that area is somewhat similar to the area of LJ that they find oh so desireable! There is a deep water canyon, a huge history of sealife, a very messy area that definitely needs some cleanwater love and a whole lotta clean up and it is a fairly feasible area to restore. Both surfrider and coastkeeper seemed very interested in the area as an alternative to La Jolla, this process is hardly over and I do not find myself "trusting" of either group wholeheartedly, but it is an option we need to to explore in order to protect LJ! It is hardly the end of the battle but at least there is the possiblilty of being open to new ideas from the enviro's! It isn't a guarantee but it is a start of more openess than I have ever experienced from the "enviro" side. I have email addresses from everyone I chatted quite extensively with yesterday and plan to follow up with them and hopefully win their hearts and minds!

Thank you to everyone for showing up yesterday and working your asses off and doing whatever you can to save our most precious fishing grounds!!

And before anyone comes on here and calls me a sell out or something else keep in mind we are all working towards keeping La Jolla open and all of us are doing whatever we can to work within the somewhat skewed system that we are being forced to work within, I am not a fool who is trusting anyone but instead at least seeing what are the possibilities of coming to a mutual agreement that may indeed work for everyone! If you have any questions about my conversations or have any comments you would like to make to me feel free to PM me and let me know your thoughts....let's keep the mean or hateful remarks off the boards as it will only add possible fuel to those who are against us' fire, like I said PM ME!!!


Also any kayakers in the Santa Monica and Pt. Dume areas can you please email me your launch sites? We need to know exact launch locations so that you can protect your access to those launches as best we can!!!

[tylerdurden]

Originally Posted by buttchaser

Tyler ,
The word I used was


sycophant (sĭk'ə-fənt,)
A servile self-seeker who attempts to win favor by flattering influential people.

Sorry about that John. I heard it different in the room.

But either way they set a precedent we will be on a short leash. No name calling has always been the rule, whether justified or not.

[Grego]

We did good guys....unbelievable about our turnout. We're in the bottom of the 7th with two outs...don't throw in the towel. The RSG reps were astounded by our turnout.

RobMandel, we all share your opinion, especially me. It kills me when I go home after these meetings and catch a glimpse of some of my old fatigues hanging in the closet knowing my service, in-part, was for these very same freaks who are now taking freedoms from me. However, somehow I manage to control my outrage and try to provide some useful input and maintain my discipline for the unit. We all appreciated your effort in attending the meeting and hope to continue seeing you at the last two meetings, we're fighting this battle as one unit and happy to see you become a part of it.

Matt, Billy, Tyler (awesome and effective presentation) and all the SD guys - The LA guys thank you much for the beers!

[Matt]

John they may have had no idea what sycophant meant and only heard the "syco" or in their minds "Psycho" good effort none the less my man!! Thanks to all you LA boys who made the drive!!

[Gino]

Originally Posted by robmandel

That would probably be me. I make no apologies for believing in freedom. Look, the reason they are doing it this way is simple. we (kayak fishermen) are a very small group and they WILL NOT stop when they are through with us. if you rode (note the past tense there) dirt bikes, or atv's, or whatever, you know full well what they have planned. if you hunted (again, past tense) you know full well what these people have in store.

any kayak fisherman, or any fisherman for that matter, that supports any "compromise" or any sort of closures, is making a deal with the devil. there is no compromise. period. you don't compromise liberty. you don't accept fishing, or freedom for that matter, as a grant from the state. it is ours at birth. any closures are a loss and if we go along with that, than we are saying that fishing is a privilege.

I received many compliments afterwards, and I hope they understand this is about far more than fishing. look at the whiny lady wanting to close off laguna due to sand erosion. whatever the hell does fishing offshore have to do with the sand on the beach. someone please tell me.........

still waiting.....

still waiting.....

okay, I thought so. remember, we are asking them for absolutely nothing. we don't want any money, special privileges, or anything else. absolutely f***ing nothing. they are taking, not your fishing grounds, but your liberty. I don't know about you, but to me, that's kinda important. what do I tell my kid who came up there with me when he asks why we can't fish?

we are harming nobody, causing nobody and loss or grievance. I don't take too kindly (that's an understatement I know) to being forcibly denied fishing off pt. dume, or la jolla, because some folks think it's not nice. that is denying us life, liberty, and property, without due process. something in the constitution or whatever the hell scrap of paper sits in the smithsonian.

anyways, remember, no matter how small the closures, no matter how much we think we saved, anything that is closed is a loss. they took from you.

and they will come back , and keep coming back, and keep at it, until you tell your grandchildren, "yeah sonny, way back when, grandpap useta fish of them waters. it was grand I tell ya'. ah, them was the golden days" and then you'll drift off into a sleepy stupor.

Thank God, I'm not the only one.