SMOKE AND MIRROR: KEN WISEMAN "BACKED OFF" ON EXTERNAL C? - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

Dan · 06-02-2009, 11:56 AM

standing by....thanks for the update. wow.

Holy Mackerel · 06-02-2009, 11:58 AM

Everyone, keep those pitchforks ready

(figuratively only!) Everyone who has planned to attend on Thursday, still very much needs too!!!

Quote:

We are revising strategy to deal with this. But you must go still and point out the problems. They hope this will take the wind out of our sail. One RSG member pointedly say that you guys (the rank-and-file fishermen and spearos gearing up and the prospect of hundreds of angry fishermen showing up to hammer the point home) forced their hands. They are counting on us being stupid not to see it. Smack 'em. See you Thursday.

zenspearo · 06-02-2009, 12:03 PM

YES, WE MUST GO TO THE MEETING ON THE 4TH.

Please please please hammer in about how underhanded and insidious it is to keep the ideas of the rejected proposal C in after it has been soundly rejected. Point out that this is smoke-and-mirror. All they did was avoid mentioning External C by name going forward, but still shove all the ideas of that polarizing and oppressive proposal C down the RSG's throat after the RSGs voted to reject it.

Don't let them play you for stupid and hope this will take the wind out of our sail That's what they are hoping for. Nothing changed except a little smoke-and-mirror trick.

tylerdurden · 06-02-2009, 12:17 PM

Thanks again Joe. Is there any public press release on this one so we can read the official story?

We have to show up, period. No matter what they say, no matter what they do. Show your displeasure when they make a mistake, applaud them when they make a move you agree with.

If you cannot show up, due to extreme cases like your house is on fire, submit written comments. Written word is cheap. Donating money is cheap. They can ignore letters, emails, and petitions. Donating to pro fishing organizations must help but...They can't ignore 300 people giving public comment as that will disrupt their personal time and the meeting. Showing up is what really gets noticed. Give your time. It is most valuable. You can always make more money or copy paste and email another form letter from the comfort of your home. Show up to their (figurative) home, the meeting and be noticed.

zenspearo · 06-02-2009, 12:26 PM

Oh crap--another gotcha.

I read it again and how did it escape me???

The memo is addressed from Ken Wiseman to the BRTF, and he couched it as a proposal.

All the "backing off" talk was couched as "Recommendation from the I-team" to the BRTF.

I missed the fact that this was NOT a memo from Ken Wiseman to the RSG members. It's a very subtle sleight-of-hand. It's a PROPOSAL from Ken Wiseman to the Blue Ribbon Task Force.

"To: MLPA Blue Ribbon Task Force"
"Proposals for Round 2 Evaluation"
"MLPA Initiative Staff makes the following recommendation"

I consulted with a few others, and they all went--oh crap.

What this means:

The BRTF will take this as a recommendation, and they will debate it and either accept or reject it.

If the BRTF rejects Ken Wiseman's latest back-pedaling, we consumptives are in the crapper--External C lives on as a viable enviro take-it-all proposal despite being voted out.

If the BRTF accepts Ken Wiseman's latest back-pedaling, we consumptives are still in the crapper--External C Ideas live on, and the enviros still got their way of getting the concepts of closing all significant fishing spots off La Jolla, Point Loma, Laguna/OC, Malibu, PV, Santa Barbara, the islands into the next round even though their proposal was voted off.

Heads I win, tails you lose.

We need to go to the meeting people. Thursday June 4th 2009.

The gaming is getting more sophisticated and insidious, but they haven't really let up. They are counting on your stupidity and complacency.

Now it's the old used car sales man trick "let me check with my sales manager, but we are giving you a special deal today."

Show them we are on it!!!

Tman · 06-02-2009, 12:57 PM

Smoke and mirrors, double speak, hmmm...... I personally can't wait to have a friendly comment session with Mr. Wiseman.

I'm gonna be so vocal I won't even need the mic....

Holy Mackerel · 06-02-2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tman

Smoke and mirrors, double speak, hmmm...... I personally can't wait to have a friendly comment session with Mr. Wiseman.

I'm gonna be so vocal I won't even need the mic....

Martin, remember we need to be passionate, yet courteous, and appropriate!

I know you know that, but just want to remind everyone speaking to not make a spectacle, keep it together.

Believe me, I'd like to get up there, and rip em a new one

but probably best to follow Joe (Zen's) recommendations. This is no secret, but he does this kinda stuff for a living.

Quote:

Please please please hammer in about how underhanded and insidious it is to keep the ideas of the rejected proposal C in after it has been soundly rejected. Point out that this is smoke-and-mirror. All they did was avoid mentioning External C by name going forward, but still shove all the ideas of that polarizing and oppressive proposal C down the RSG's throat after the RSGs voted to reject it.

06-02-2009, 12:03 PM	#3
zenspearo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 167	YES, WE MUST GO TO THE MEETING ON THE 4TH. Please please please hammer in about how underhanded and insidious it is to keep the ideas of the rejected proposal C in after it has been soundly rejected. Point out that this is smoke-and-mirror. All they did was avoid mentioning External C by name going forward, but still shove all the ideas of that polarizing and oppressive proposal C down the RSG's throat after the RSGs voted to reject it. Don't let them play you for stupid and hope this will take the wind out of our sail That's what they are hoping for. Nothing changed except a little smoke-and-mirror trick. __________________ A spearo, but we are in this MLPA mess together

06-02-2009, 12:17 PM	#4
tylerdurden Bad Clone Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 874	Thanks again Joe. Is there any public press release on this one so we can read the official story? We have to show up, period. No matter what they say, no matter what they do. Show your displeasure when they make a mistake, applaud them when they make a move you agree with. If you cannot show up, due to extreme cases like your house is on fire, submit written comments. Written word is cheap. Donating money is cheap. They can ignore letters, emails, and petitions. Donating to pro fishing organizations must help but...They can't ignore 300 people giving public comment as that will disrupt their personal time and the meeting. Showing up is what really gets noticed. Give your time. It is most valuable. You can always make more money or copy paste and email another form letter from the comfort of your home. Show up to their (figurative) home, the meeting and be noticed. __________________ MLPA, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem Let the Fish and Game Commission know what you think about the proposed maps. Be ready for December 9th and 10th.

06-02-2009, 12:26 PM	#5
zenspearo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 167	Oh crap--another gotcha. I read it again and how did it escape me??? The memo is addressed from Ken Wiseman to the BRTF, and he couched it as a proposal. All the "backing off" talk was couched as "Recommendation from the I-team" to the BRTF. I missed the fact that this was NOT a memo from Ken Wiseman to the RSG members. It's a very subtle sleight-of-hand. It's a PROPOSAL from Ken Wiseman to the Blue Ribbon Task Force. "To: MLPA Blue Ribbon Task Force" "Proposals for Round 2 Evaluation" "MLPA Initiative Staff makes the following recommendation" I consulted with a few others, and they all went--oh crap. What this means: The BRTF will take this as a recommendation, and they will debate it and either accept or reject it. If the BRTF rejects Ken Wiseman's latest back-pedaling, we consumptives are in the crapper--External C lives on as a viable enviro take-it-all proposal despite being voted out. If the BRTF accepts Ken Wiseman's latest back-pedaling, we consumptives are still in the crapper--External C Ideas live on, and the enviros still got their way of getting the concepts of closing all significant fishing spots off La Jolla, Point Loma, Laguna/OC, Malibu, PV, Santa Barbara, the islands into the next round even though their proposal was voted off. Heads I win, tails you lose. We need to go to the meeting people. Thursday June 4th 2009. The gaming is getting more sophisticated and insidious, but they haven't really let up. They are counting on your stupidity and complacency. Now it's the old used car sales man trick "let me check with my sales manager, but we are giving you a special deal today." Show them we are on it!!! __________________ A spearo, but we are in this MLPA mess together Last edited by zenspearo; 06-02-2009 at 01:32 PM.

06-02-2009, 12:57 PM	#6
Tman BRTF...bought & paid... Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,247	Smoke and mirrors, double speak, hmmm...... I personally can't wait to have a friendly comment session with Mr. Wiseman. I'm gonna be so vocal I won't even need the mic.... __________________ Adios Tman Gaffer for Clay the Fishcatcher

06-02-2009, 11:56 AM	#1
Dan Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,053	standing by....thanks for the update. wow.