Hobie Revolution versus the Outback impressions

[THE DARKHORSE]

What first comes to mind is "how do you have an exact experiment of speed in an environment that is well....not under control.....and more importantly measure....effort output"? Atleast this was my first thought when I read this original post.

I can only speak from my own experience, and say the Revo is way faster than the Outback. From the getting up on plane, to the cutting through chop, and especially when considering thinking of stamina neccisary to keep up that pace for hours on end (like a 12 mile sprint). I can understand, if somehow Paul kept up a 4 mph average with the Outback, but "I" didn't keep up that pace (that's pretty fast for the Outback). I will agree with the just over 4 mph average with the Revolution though (with less effort).

The most important factor "for me" is the effort neccisary to keep up that pace, and even faster at times (bird schools). I think you may have similar speeds with both models "in flat calm conditions", but the effort neccisary with the Revo is close to half compared to the Outback, and the Revo is at least 30% faster in choppy conditions (look at the bow and hull design). To paddlers out there, don't get it twisted, as the effort neccisary for a pedal kayak compared to a paddle kayak....is well...not exactly "apples to apples". A pedal kayak requires "probably" less than half the effort compared to a paddle kayak, and "maybe even less" (I'm no scientist ). This becomes obvious on hot days as I rarely even break a sweat anymore, even in hot pursuit, and I wear waders year round.

Honesty though, for the typical La Jolla angler (and most any angler on the coast), who travels less than 8 miles a day, the Outback has plenty of speed compared to a paddle kayak (with obviously plenty of stability ta' boot). For those with inshore/offshore aspirations, or those with no stamina and maybe a heart condition or just plain lazy , consider the Revo or Adventure. Again, "I can only speak from my own experience", and say you will notice the difference in speed, and if not check the GPS (keep in mind the GPS isn't all that accurate when measuring low speeds).

For those who are thinking about expanding their range, the Revo or Adventure will surprise you in a long hall, especially in windy choppy conditions with "river like current". Consider the typical California day : glassy conditions early, with increased wind around 10:00 a.m, and a wind momentum through the afternoon, then a late afternoon decrease in wind again. On my long range trips so far (longest over 40 miles), I keep a pace of close to 2.8 mph on my way offshore (much less than the original posters 4+ mph average), to save energy and chase porps, and to make sure I leave something in the tank for the ride home. After 5 hours of a near non-stop pace I'm 14 miles inshore/offshore and "barely break a sweat" on a typical cloudy 65 degree morning, with the Revolution. Getting to the zone is only half the battle, and the search for signs of life takes over. Unless I see something, I keep heading offshore. Of course, you have to do the math sooner or later, and ask yourself "how long is it going to take to make it home"? This is the cool part: With the Revo, I can "ride the swells" with the aid of the "typical afternoon wind", and reach speeds of 7 mph, and occasionaly a little faster. No, I can't hold a 7 mph average, but I can hold an average of close to 6 mph "with little effort". The sad part of it is, this is usually the highlight of my trip after not catching my tartget species (pretty fun). This is where I make up a lot of time, and how a 40 mile trip is possible in a day from a kayak (without killing yourself). Even if you can keep up a 5 mph average "with the wind at your back" (with little effort), those last 4 hours cover 20+ miles. On a windy afternoon, making the crossing from the local islands home would be cake. My first couple of trips I was pretty nervous doing the math , wondering if I was going to make it back by dark, but I'm always amazed how fast I make it home.

To make things clear, I'm not trying to get people to go buy a Hobie, or most importantly get people in over their head going inshore/offshore. I'm only sharing "my opinion", and I respect Paul's original post for his. I know for a fact these inshore/offshore trips will be common place in years to come, as soon as people experience it for themselves. Consider the price of gas and mothership trips $$$, with spectacular sportfishing at our fingertips, the sport will evolve beyond our "current comfort zone".

[pchen911]

Hey Josh,

Excellent point on the subjective nature of taking a measure of relative speed and especially effort output. I thought about that when I was trying to get an impression of the speeds on the two boats, but you are right. There is definitely too many variables in play to get a really scientific measurement going. Especially when taking two different boats with different setups out on different days.

So instead of using my own speed measurements, I tried looking up Hobies site to see if I can find some sort of a statement regarding what speeds each of their boat averages at.

The closest I found was this: http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=7704

(quoted with reference to the original post)

With access to the local dealer's fleet, here are some 1 hour cruise distances for different models (using Turbofins):

Adventure -- 5.3 to 5.4 miles

Revolution -- 5.0 to 5.1 miles

Outback ('07 hull) -- 4.8 miles +/-

(Note: these differences would grow with heavier wind and chop).

From what I can gather, the person that took these measurement is somewhat of an authority on the Hobie boards. Of course, like you said, this is not taking ocean conditions into consideration. In conditions with winds/chop/current, the relative difference can grow as the post mentioned.

Not exactly hard science, but the best data available so far.

I am limited by the amount of time I have when I go out at La Jolla, so I typically go between 7 to 8 miles on an average day out whether I am paddling or peddling. And I go slooowwww once I get past the reserve and start trolling, so I rarely push the envelope of distance or stamina on either the paddle or pedal boats.

In this type of fishing, I completely agree with you. The Outback is way more than sufficient for the typical fishing done at La Jolla and then some.

Perhaps this is why I got alittle disappointed with the switch from Outback to the Revolution. I switched for the reason of wanting an improved paddling, tracking, and glide for sake of paddle launching and landings. When in reality, the Revo excels at long distance / long range (time) treks.

I'll admit.. I never thought of doing the inshore/offshore treks myself .... not why I went to the Revo... For those that do, I look upon them with awe and respect. But not something I ever though of doing myself.... Like seeing someone run a marathon... "Wow, I am impressed but no thanks!!" I am one of those "plain lazy" types. (I'll do my long distance trips on my Cal 25 instead!).

By the way, since you are somewhat of the expert on the Revolution here. What launching and landing methods do you use yourself for surf? If not for the awkward launching and landings of the Hobies, I would certainly enjoy them alot more.

[dsafety]

There is a little "MacGyver" in me that can't resist trying to find solutions to problems using simple tools and materials. After buying a Revo last spring, I discovered that the Revo is a great boat but it is not without its shortcomings. Fortunately, this kayak is easy to mod. I have come up with a couple of things that make the boat more useful for me.

Because of the way I store my kayak in my garage, I cannot have the ball mounts sticking above the gunwales. That means that I cannot permanently mount a forward rod holder. I came up with a design for a removable rod holder that mounts in the Revo cup holder.

You can see a thread on this design here. http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...ead.php?t=3581

This device works really well while on the water but I find that it gets in the way when paddling. I usually remove it while launching and landing.

To deal with the awkward positioning of the rear rod holders, I created a "Accessory -Trolling Bar" that mounts in the rear holes and provides a better trolling setup with easier access to the rods.

Here is the thread for this project.
http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...ead.php?t=3583

This mod is very useful. It also provides a place to attach leashes, and would be ideal for mounting a light as well as other small items.

See you on the water.

Bob

[Billy V]

Josh,

I think you covered the true reason why I like the adventure so much.

-Plainly speaking, it takes less effort to cover our fishing grounds. I really don't go very fast out there, but I do cover a lot of area and never seem to get tired.

I use a slow cadence with turbo fins and it makes for a fun day on the water.
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BTW the $950 Adventure that was For sale was an absolute steal.
$1799 retail on these boats, and although there were some design changes to the 09 models my 06 has fished flawlessly for 2 years and still has another (2) years left on the factory warranty.

[thien]

Originally Posted by Billy V

Josh,

I think you covered the true reason why I like the adventure so much.

-Plainly speaking, it takes less effort to cover our fishing grounds. I really don't go very fast out there, but I do cover a lot of area and never seem to get tired.

I use a slow cadence with turbo fins and it makes for a fun day on the water.
-------------------------------
BTW the $950 Adventure that was For sale was an absolute steal.
$1799 retail on these boats, and although there were some design changes to the 09 models my 06 has fished flawlessly for 2 years and still has another (2) years left on the factory warranty.

How did you get a 4 year warranty with your hull? The Hobie warranty card states 2yrs on the hull and 1yr for the mirage drive.

[Billy V]

Originally Posted by thien

How did you get a 4 year warranty with your hull? The Hobie warranty card states 2yrs on the hull and 1yr for the mirage drive.

The 06 Adventures that have specific serial #'s were given an additional (2) years added to the warranty period for full hull replacement coverage. This was because some people had developed a crack in the drive well area.

The crack would develop as a result of Not tightening down the Mirage Drive Properly and allowing it to slide forward and smash into the hull.

After diagnosing what caused the problem Hobie offered a drive well strengthening kit with longer cam knob bolts, and a fiberglass wedge to stiffen up the area, and by letter stated they were extending the warranty for an additional (2) years and prorated warranty after that. :ThumbsUp:
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Out of the (3) 2006 Adventures we owned none has ever had a single problem. Two of those boats spent most of their life in Baja and one is still down there. One has been sold in Baja, and the 3rd. boat still fishes La Jolla at least once a week problem free.

Its basically a free extended warranty.

[pchen911]

Just FYI.

I had owned 2 outbacks, including an 05 model, prior to the 07 Outback and the 08 Revo.

The 05 was one of the serial numbers that required the strengthening patch. Hobie sent me one of those patch and replacement bolts by mail.

The patch was applied, but the boat STILL developed a crack in the drive well several months after the patch application.

So the patch may help, but was not a complete solution from my experience.

Now, I shy away from the boats made during the problem years no matter what price they are. (provided that I am aware that they are from the problem batch).

[zinkysd]

Originally Posted by Billy V

Josh,

BTW the $950 Adventure that was For sale was an absolute steal.
$1799 retail on these boats, and although there were some design changes to the 09 models my 06 has fished flawlessly for 2 years and still has another (2) years left on the factory warranty.

Yes it was and it was a better deal when I bought it for $870. Going this Saturday for it's first test drive.

Ken

[pchen911]

Originally Posted by zinkysd

Yes it was and it was a better deal when I bought it for $870. Going this Saturday for it's first test drive.

Ken

Holy crap! That is a crazy deal.

I saw that one day after buying the Revo. I also saw another Revo for sale for $1000 the day after buying mine too. I gotta say, you really scored! Timing IS everything!

Let me know if you don't like it and want to unload it

Josh, thanks for the tips..... "liquid patience"... LOL. I like that. Never heard that before.

[THE DARKHORSE]

Hey Paul,

Disclaimer : I'm just a guy that loves to fish, not a scientist or expert.

I think you and I have the same trolling technique, "slow as possible". Although, I think you troll over more areas than I do (like the whole time once past the reserve). Over the years I've developed a different style of fishing La Jolla than most. For example: When most guys catch bait at the pier, and move to the particular grounds of the day they put out a bait and start trolling that way. When we fished north the other day, I didn't put a bait out until I hit my zone way up there. Sure, I probably flew over quite a few Yellowtail on the way, but I had an appointment for a bite pattern. When heading to the point from the pier I haven't trolled a bait on the way in probably five years now, until I make it to "my zone for that particular day". I know I'm passing fish on the way, but I have very little confidence in catching fish crossing this area, "most of the time" . If you add up all the time I spent with no bait in the water while making it to my spots on the X-Factor......well you get the idea.....plenty of wasted fishing time. For me, the Hobie is perfect for my fishing style, as I can cover ground quickly and maximize fishing time. I also never fish with Spanish Mackerel even though in the past I've caught giant White Sea Bass and Yellowtail on them (I know crazy right ). Although this summer (when I knew Yellowtail were in my zone), I did some pretty exciting emperiments (for me exciting) with Spanish Mackerel. My experiment was to pull the "slow swimming Spanish" at "very high speed" (when I knew Yellowtail were very close by), and eureka. I don't think my test pilots liked my experiment, and they can only keep up for a short time, but I found another reason to love the Hobie.

As far as landing, I guess I've been real lucky over the years. I've never lost anything more than a pair of pliers in 10' Big Rock surf (timing is everything). Until this spring, in the midst of my WCW delerium, fishing for White Sea Bass until 11:00 p.m., with macking surf breaking way way outside I took a monster over my back. I have to admit, I had six cans of liquid patience watching giant White Sea Bass circle my baits in the dark with the glowing luminescence before heading in. This was pretty funny, because I had just written a reply post about never losing it in the surf in ten years (and never leashing any of my gear), and how it's sooooooo easy "after you learn to surf your kayak with out gear in larger conditions" lol. I thought of Bing while I was swimming in my kayak with 8' waves bashing me repeatedly on the way in. Nothing against Bing, I thought he would of really got a kick out of karma catching up with me, never say never. Sure, I took a little hit to my pride (lost an old cheap gaff), but I didn't learn from that mistake, and had six more cans of liquid patience the next night, watching giant White Sea Bass circle my bait over and over again without ever biting in the glowing luminescence five feet below my kayak . Same swell and beverage consumption coming in around 10:00 p.m., it happened again, giant wave hits me as I'm back paddling over a monster, atleast 8'+lol. I thought of Bing agian, and wished I had a helmet cam on for him to spit out his beer as he watched laughing. Note to self: Surfing your kayak is sooooooo easy, but not in the dark with giant swells that you can't see coming, after a six-pack of liquid patience and having your heart broken (again) by giant White Sea Bass. Atleast I learned from the night before, and tied a rope around all my rods, but I lost a $100 Henckel chef's knife that was my kelp cutter.

Shortly after this experience I switched to the Hobie crafts, and started fishing them without ever taking them in the surf "without gear"..... to figure them out (not listening to my own advice ). I started with the Outback, and man what a difference from the X-Factor as far as surfing ability. I felt like I was riding my dad's surfboard , and was a little scared the first couple of night landings. Being that the boat is 12' long and my 6' frame with feet close to the bow, I felt like it was a definate indo, but that never happened. I never took a spill on the Outback, and got used to the surfing characteristics pretty quickly. I'm sure we have similar experiences while paddling out on the Outback, as it's not the fastest craft, but that being said, with all that stability it's pretty challenging to flip the thing. When I switched to the Revo, man what a difference. At first, I didn't like the handling as much while coming in through the surf, as she is so responsive I thought she was unstable. After multiple trips through the surf, I realized she wasn't unstable at all, just responsive, kinda like my little shortboards that turn on a dime, as apposed to my dad's stubborn boards.

To answer your question, my launching and landing technique is somewhat determined by the fact that I don't own the Hobie crafts outright. They belong to Fastlane, and I respect their property. Thus I'm very careful, with their kayaks and especially the Mirage Drive. Sure, they told me to use the Mirage Drive coming in and going out through the surf, as many Hobie users do, but I use the paddle in most cases (when I don't forget to bring it). I don't like to put the Mirage Drive in while on the beach, and let the weight of the kayak rest on the fins, even though I see plenty of guys doing it without any negative effects.