Skunked - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

Phishphood · 03-24-2016, 02:13 PM

Because I didn't check a knot. Fluoro to spectra failed on takedown.

Buddy caught a 33lber on a dropper loop in about 50'.

Bait was easy in close.

FullFlavorPike · 03-24-2016, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phishphood

Because I didn't check a knot. Fluoro to spectra failed on takedown.

A wise bro once said, "The battle is won on the couch the night before."

Didn't get bit today myself... I guess I can expect no better after a such a gentlemanly, post-sunrise start.

I did find a surface iron lying in Vallecitos St. It's pretty beat up, and my guess is that the owner would rather replace it, BUT, if, on the off chance that one of you guys is sitting at home right now mourning the loss of a favorite piece of super lucky tackle; well, then please describe it and I'll try to get it back to you.

Fishin Phil · 03-24-2016, 06:17 PM

http://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/thr...s-knot.548048/

fishnfoool · 03-24-2016, 07:25 PM

Have you guys just tried using a swivel for the connection? I tie a tony pena knot when i am fly lining from a boat, but when I am on a kayak, it seems that the most simple way is best. I have been using a swivel for the last two years and I have been catching the yellows just as much as I did when i was using the tony pena knot. By the way, the tony pena knot has not failed me ever. The flouro knot to the hook may fail, but not the connection.

FARRIER · 03-24-2016, 08:30 PM

Some of my best surface irons had almost no paint at all.

h2ofishfo · 03-25-2016, 08:50 AM

Go RP knot bro easy to tie on the water small knot goes through guides easy and if your gonna go slider sinker with it use a Carolina keeper sell them at anglers choice and turners slides on the line stops your egg sinker and adjustable

fresh to salt · 03-25-2016, 10:12 AM

I have always used spro swivels since they have a very small OD and will slide through the guides pretty easily. I recently have found the RP (Royal Polaris) knot and agree that it is incredibly easy and fast to tie! I havent been able to test the strength of it yet as I couldnt get the marks to equate to a bite last trip out. Hopefully I will have some feedback tomorrow evening! Tight lines!

octico · 03-25-2016, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h2ofishfo

Go RP knot bro easy to tie on the water small knot goes through guides easy and if your gonna go slider sinker with it use a Carolina keeper sell them at anglers choice and turners slides on the line stops your egg sinker and adjustable

RP knot has never failed me.

FullFlavorPike · 03-25-2016, 11:08 AM

I'm a lot better at knots than I am at fishing :P

The dropper loop ought to be the weak point on a dropper or reverse dropper rig, not the braid-topshot knot. Pretty much all the complicated braid-leader knots seem to be equal in at least someone's eyes. One guy swears by albright, another by FG. Everybody's tests differ.

With properly setup drag it shouldn't be an issue anyways. I just replaced the stock drag on my TLD15 with carbontex washer. The old one had been sticking and costing me hookups...to the tune of three farmed fish in forty minutes a little over a week ago. It basically went from 3lbs directly to infinite, especially when a fish took a fast run. Even the best knots couldn't handle that. I feel much more confident now. Would like to test it out in the real world now that the living room test is locked in.

maquinapescado · 03-25-2016, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FARRIER

Some of my best surface irons had almost no paint at all.

X2 on that. Most bit irons I have are trashed with only a few flakes of paint left.

Murray · 03-25-2016, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullFlavorPike

I'm a lot better at knots than I am at fishing :P

The dropper loop ought to be the weak point on a dropper or reverse dropper rig, not the braid-topshot knot. Pretty much all the complicated braid-leader knots seem to be equal in at least someone's eyes. One guy swears by albright, another by FG. Everybody's tests differ.

With properly setup drag it shouldn't be an issue anyways. I just replaced the stock drag on my TLD15 with carbontex washer. The old one had been sticking and costing me hookups...to the tune of three farmed fish in forty minutes a little over a week ago. It basically went from 3lbs directly to infinite, especially when a fish took a fast run. Even the best knots couldn't handle that. I feel much more confident now. Would like to test it out in the real world now that the living room test is locked in.

Lost a fish today per dropper loop failing. Braid to fluoro no problem. Failure occurred at knot that creates the loop. Worked ok several weeks ago but not today. Kelp (did not feel real thick) may have added to the problem but not sure. Dropper knot on 50 lb fluro looks pretty ugly imo. Have heard negative comments about using 3 way swivel(weak) but starting to think it may be worth a try. Anyone know of a high quality 3 way swivel that will handle la jolla size fish? Also seems like bigger fish are deeper than surface models but just guessing.

alanw · 03-25-2016, 10:46 PM

I read an article not too long ago where a captain gave up on the dropper loop and instead uses a spider hitch or bimini twist to create a big loop, then cuts the loop 1/3 of the way to end up with a long end and a short end which can then be made into either a dropper or a reverse dropper depending on which end he ties the hook and sinker to.

Geno Machino · 03-25-2016, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanw

I read an article not too long ago where a captain gave up on the dropper loop and instead uses a spider hitch or bimini twist to create a big loop, then cuts the loop 1/3 of the way to end up with a long end and a short end which can then be made into either a dropper or a reverse dropper depending on which end he ties the hook and sinker to.

I all ways use a spider hitch for my dropper loops, unless I'm fishing straight rockfish.
The old dropper loop knot will fail every time on big fish...learned that years ago - the hard way.

Geno

theluckypig · 03-26-2016, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geno Machino

I all ways use a spider hitch for my dropper loops
Geno

ditto

Fish Taco · 03-26-2016, 01:38 PM

I know there's a bunch of different braid to mono knots out there, but I was taught this one by Alberto Knie when I lived in New York a few years ago... yes, this is his knot and he developed it many years ago. It tightens on itself like one of those Chinese Finger traps we used to play with as a kid... has never failed me yet... a great knot. Google it and you'll see a video of him showing how to tie it... "Crazy" Alberto is known famously on the East Coast and has the respect of many fisherman around the world... he knows his sh*t...

- Ken

govomit · 03-26-2016, 02:47 PM

This is the same knot Fishin"Boobs"Phil linked to above, and AKA "RP knot" mentioned as well. Only difference is the number of twists - 5x vs 7x. Amazing how this thing works! Did couple of tests and the leader breaks below, not at the knot. It's hardly a "knot" in the first place... I'd call it a great "solution".

FullFlavorPike · 03-27-2016, 08:18 AM

I had to break a jig off the other day. The rig was 40# mono - blood knot - 40# seaguar - SD jam knot. On my Sealine 50, I had to crank the drag down to max, thumb the spool, and lean into it with EVERYTHING I have to snap that line at the blood knot. Now, a dropper loop is virtually identical to a blood knot, and should affect line strength similarly, at least when tied correctly.

I think part of this problem with fishing the dropper loop, or any type of loop knot, is that everybody is using braid. Doesn't stretch so it's really easy to break the knot since the shock absorbing qualities of the mono aren't present. Working the drag perfectly becomes paramount, and I think that for me and other relative noobs who are losing fish, running slightly less drag than conventional wisdom dictates is key. I have my TLD15 set up for about 14-15# of max drag right now on a reverse dropper tied into 50# mono. That's a shitload of fighting power, and realisitically a lot MORE power than it would be with 15# of drag in a mono to fluoro setup, because there's no stretch. Theoretically, it's impossible to break the knots on my rig by just pulling on the end. They're able to withstand 20+ pounds of force, but if a fish makes a sudden run, there's a great deal of momentary stress on the knot, and it can still break.

The point of all this is that I don't think the knots are to blame. At least in my case, there's a nut loose behind the crank

But in general, I suspect that "it's not the knots, it's how you fish them" is good to keep in mind. Setting up your lever drags with a scale beforehand, and knowing how far you can go with your star drags; not to mention perhaps knowing when to back the drag off just a little bit in anticipation of a big run, is going to land more fish than tying a better knot. They are ALL good knots, vetted by hundreds of great fishermen and with plenty of trophy fish to their credit.

03-24-2016, 02:13 PM	#1
Phishphood Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 346	Skunked Because I didn't check a knot. Fluoro to spectra failed on takedown. Buddy caught a 33lber on a dropper loop in about 50'. Bait was easy in close.

03-24-2016, 06:17 PM	#3
Fishin Phil Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 288	skunked http://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/thr...s-knot.548048/ __________________ God, Family, Your Health, You're Fishing.

03-24-2016, 08:30 PM	#5
FARRIER Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Cmont [] Posts: 314	Some of my best surface irons had almost no paint at all. __________________ "It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is." –Bill Clinton

03-25-2016, 08:50 AM	#6
h2ofishfo Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Santee Posts: 821	Go RP knot bro easy to tie on the water small knot goes through guides easy and if your gonna go slider sinker with it use a Carolina keeper sell them at anglers choice and turners slides on the line stops your egg sinker and adjustable __________________ GABE<@)((((>€~~~~team ?????uuuh it's fishing

03-25-2016, 10:46 PM	#12
alanw Made in U.S.A. Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Dana Point Posts: 1,625	I read an article not too long ago where a captain gave up on the dropper loop and instead uses a spider hitch or bimini twist to create a big loop, then cuts the loop 1/3 of the way to end up with a long end and a short end which can then be made into either a dropper or a reverse dropper depending on which end he ties the hook and sinker to. __________________ Hobie PA 14 ¸.·´¯`·.´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><(((º> Jackson Kraken ¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><(((º> Malibu X-Factor ¸.·´¯`·.´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><(((º> Malibu Stealth-12 ¸.·´¯`·.´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><(((º> Its not a spelling B its a fishing B ~yakjoe

03-24-2016, 07:25 PM	#4
fishnfoool Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Long beach Posts: 303	Have you guys just tried using a swivel for the connection? I tie a tony pena knot when i am fly lining from a boat, but when I am on a kayak, it seems that the most simple way is best. I have been using a swivel for the last two years and I have been catching the yellows just as much as I did when i was using the tony pena knot. By the way, the tony pena knot has not failed me ever. The flouro knot to the hook may fail, but not the connection.

03-25-2016, 10:12 AM	#7
fresh to salt Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Menifee, CA Posts: 53	I have always used spro swivels since they have a very small OD and will slide through the guides pretty easily. I recently have found the RP (Royal Polaris) knot and agree that it is incredibly easy and fast to tie! I havent been able to test the strength of it yet as I couldnt get the marks to equate to a bite last trip out. Hopefully I will have some feedback tomorrow evening! Tight lines!

03-25-2016, 11:08 AM	#9
FullFlavorPike Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 809	I'm a lot better at knots than I am at fishing :P The dropper loop ought to be the weak point on a dropper or reverse dropper rig, not the braid-topshot knot. Pretty much all the complicated braid-leader knots seem to be equal in at least someone's eyes. One guy swears by albright, another by FG. Everybody's tests differ. With properly setup drag it shouldn't be an issue anyways. I just replaced the stock drag on my TLD15 with carbontex washer. The old one had been sticking and costing me hookups...to the tune of three farmed fish in forty minutes a little over a week ago. It basically went from 3lbs directly to infinite, especially when a fish took a fast run. Even the best knots couldn't handle that. I feel much more confident now. Would like to test it out in the real world now that the living room test is locked in.

03-26-2016, 01:38 PM	#15
Fish Taco Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Bozeman, Montana Posts: 164	I know there's a bunch of different braid to mono knots out there, but I was taught this one by Alberto Knie when I lived in New York a few years ago... yes, this is his knot and he developed it many years ago. It tightens on itself like one of those Chinese Finger traps we used to play with as a kid... has never failed me yet... a great knot. Google it and you'll see a video of him showing how to tie it... "Crazy" Alberto is known famously on the East Coast and has the respect of many fisherman around the world... he knows his sht... - Ken __________________ - Ken Redondo Beach, CA* 2011 Malibu Stealth 14

03-26-2016, 02:47 PM	#16
govomit Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 77	This is the same knot Fishin"Boobs"Phil linked to above, and AKA "RP knot" mentioned as well. Only difference is the number of twists - 5x vs 7x. Amazing how this thing works! Did couple of tests and the leader breaks below, not at the knot. It's hardly a "knot" in the first place... I'd call it a great "solution". Last edited by govomit; 03-26-2016 at 02:54 PM.

03-27-2016, 08:18 AM	#17
FullFlavorPike Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 809	I had to break a jig off the other day. The rig was 40# mono - blood knot - 40# seaguar - SD jam knot. On my Sealine 50, I had to crank the drag down to max, thumb the spool, and lean into it with EVERYTHING I have to snap that line at the blood knot. Now, a dropper loop is virtually identical to a blood knot, and should affect line strength similarly, at least when tied correctly. I think part of this problem with fishing the dropper loop, or any type of loop knot, is that everybody is using braid. Doesn't stretch so it's really easy to break the knot since the shock absorbing qualities of the mono aren't present. Working the drag perfectly becomes paramount, and I think that for me and other relative noobs who are losing fish, running slightly less drag than conventional wisdom dictates is key. I have my TLD15 set up for about 14-15# of max drag right now on a reverse dropper tied into 50# mono. That's a shitload of fighting power, and realisitically a lot MORE power than it would be with 15# of drag in a mono to fluoro setup, because there's no stretch. Theoretically, it's impossible to break the knots on my rig by just pulling on the end. They're able to withstand 20+ pounds of force, but if a fish makes a sudden run, there's a great deal of momentary stress on the knot, and it can still break. The point of all this is that I don't think the knots are to blame. At least in my case, there's a nut loose behind the crank But in general, I suspect that "it's not the knots, it's how you fish them" is good to keep in mind. Setting up your lever drags with a scale beforehand, and knowing how far you can go with your star drags; not to mention perhaps knowing when to back the drag off just a little bit in anticipation of a big run, is going to land more fish than tying a better knot. They are ALL good knots, vetted by hundreds of great fishermen and with plenty of trophy fish to their credit.