WCW Poll - next season start

[dorado50]

WCW is like a second job. If you don't have one (a second job) than this is it. Fish before ,after or during your other job. This is a very unique tournament that takes alot out of onesself, physically, mentally and emotionally, perhaps that is why there is always a winner! Changing the format to cater to the people that don't put in the effort for this tourney is wrong imo. A one day shot at fish is pretty much luck, however a year long tourny is all skill and fortitude. I,myself have never been in a tournament ,where prize monies were involved to be fun... This is an awesome tournament, and not another like it that I know of, leave it alone or go home........

[tylerdurden]

I think there should be a break. Let people recharge.

I think some people have lost sight of the real goal of fishing because of WCW. Fishing is supposed to be fun. If you are going out fishing in miserable conditions just to have a shot at points for a stupid contest it just isn't the same anymore. Add on all the internet bullshit and pissing contest and we've seen what happens. I have made some great friends through the contest. The contest has also gotten to the point where not everyone knows each other and some don't like each other. It is no longer a silly contest between friends.

[dorado50]

Tyler, I think that if there were no monies and prizes offered than this could be fun again, but once it becomes a contest there must be a winner. You can be friends off the court but not necessary on the court,or ring, or racetrack,etc..This is no different.If one doesn't want to win why enter in the first place?

[fishdude]

I diffinetly agree with madscientist and lambs last remarks. If your fishing to prove a point with getting more points and showing someone up that is weak, let the fish be your trophy and your friends and good times be the reason for getting out there.
Not everyone can fish 5,10, 20 times a month. If there were more monthly tournys or jackpots I would be in for sure. Only being able to fish 1 a month or on a good month 5 times, depending on the time of year, I would have more encouragement for myself to try and win 1 month out of 12.
What you could do is the twelve months in the year turn into twelve tournys, then at the end of the year accumulate the points for each of the months to get an overall winner. Have an option to buy in for the overall year total. Basically 13 tournys in a givin year, individual month tournys and the overall fishslayer who likes to and can have the time to fish all year, unlike the rest of us who actually work for a livinglol . Just a thought.
Always wanted to participate with the plastic navy but just do not have the time. If there were more monthly things I would be down with that.

[nmbrinkman]

Originally Posted by dorado50

WCW is like a second job. If you don't have one (a second job) than this is it. Fish before ,after or during your other job. This is a very unique tournament that takes alot out of onesself, physically, mentally and emotionally, perhaps that is why there is always a winner! Changing the format to cater to the people that don't put in the effort for this tourney is wrong imo. A one day shot at fish is pretty much luck, however a year long tourny is all skill and fortitude. I,myself have never been in a tournament ,where prize monies were involved to be fun... This is an awesome tournament, and not another like it that I know of, leave it alone or go home........

I never have been and won't be someone who bitches about my lack of oppurtunity to fish or complains how I can't keep up with the guys who have quick access and time to fish LJ. That's fine, it is what it is. But...

...Effort has little to do with it. What makes you think your effort is any greater than anyone else's anyway?

A full effort and me fishing at every available opportunity does not mean that I'm going to be out there just as much as you. Our same effort and all my spare time may result in usually 2-3 outings a month (5-6 max) while yours may be 2-3 times a week (if not more). Don't just assume that because you don't see the lower third out as much as you that that they're putting out less effort. Just seems a bit Bush league.

Like I said earlier. I don't care about the situations some have that allow them to fish more or whatever. I'll still join WCW 08 and 09 if that's possible and I'll still give 100%. As for where I place, that really isn't up to me IMO. As for a second job, when fishing becomes a job I quit. But throw in kids and fishing is a third job.

As for the format. It makes sense and is simple and clear to understand. I don't mind it the way it is. But I do see where others are coming from. It's no secret that the top 10 have much more opportunity to fish than the bottom 21. That is in no way taking away from their skill. But I can understand where the guys in the lower rankings are coming from. If it's not "fun" for the non top 10, why should they join? So they can hand their money to the top 3? There is no WCW without #31 - #11.

With that said, some take the tournament a little too serious. It's still just fishing. I joined WCW to be a part of something fun. I mean how can it not be with a YT jackpot prize that includes a whole lot of beer. I guess that's easy for me to say though.

[dorado50]

Originally Posted by nmbrinkman

Actually it's a third job. Work, Family, Fishing. I wish it weren't that way but it is. I'm not and won't be someone who bitches about my lack of oppurtunity to fish or complains how I can't keep up with the guys who have quick access and time to fish LJ. That's fine it is what it is. If you ask me, some take it a little too serious and a little too personal. It's still just fishing. I joined WCW to be a part of something fun. I mean how can it not be with a certain prize that includes beer.I guess that's easy for me to say though.

To get that prize one needs to work real hard and take it seriously. Its a "contest" not a giveaway!! Its competition, love or leave it........

[nmbrinkman]

Originally Posted by dorado50

To get that prize one needs to work real hard and take it seriously. Its a "contest" not a giveaway!! Its competition, love or leave it........

Like I said after I edited my post, there is not a competition without the bottom two-thirds. Although I'm on your side in regards to the issue, but the "prizes" may be bigger with a larger field (more sponsors). That may mean you have to allow "giveaways" but the top prizes would be bigger.

[dorado50]

Originally Posted by nmbrinkman

I never have been and won't be someone who bitches about my lack of oppurtunity to fish or complains how I can't keep up with the guys who have quick access and time to fish LJ. That's fine, it is what it is. But...

...Effort has little to do with it. What makes you think your effort is any greater than anyone else's anyway?

A full effort and me fishing at every available opportunity does not mean that I'm going to be out there just as much as you. Our same effort and all my spare time may result in usually 2-3 outings a month (5-6 max) while yours may be 2-3 times a week (if not more). Don't just assume that because you don't see the lower third out as much as you that that they're putting out less effort. Just seems a bit Bush league.

Like I said earlier. I don't care about the situations some have that allow them to fish more or whatever. I'll still join WCW 08 and 09 if that's possible and I'll still give 100%. As for where I place, that really isn't up to me IMO. As for a second job, when fishing becomes a job I quit. But throw in kids and fishing is a third job.

As for the format. It makes sense and is simple and clear to understand. I don't mind it the way it is. But I do see where others are coming from. It's no secret that the top 10 have much more opportunity to fish than the bottom 21. That is in no way taking away from their skill. But I can understand where the guys in the lower rankings are coming from. If it's not "fun" for the non top 10, why should they join? So they can hand their money to the top 3? There is no WCW without #31 - #11.

With that said, some take the tournament a little too serious. It's still just fishing. I joined WCW to be a part of something fun. I mean how can it not be with a YT jackpot prize that includes a whole lot of beer. I guess that's easy for me to say though.

You should join only to become one of the top three and make some friends along the way and gain a whole lot of knowlege.....

[nmbrinkman]

If people only joined to be part of the top 3 then only 5 people would join. Most of us join knowing full well we aren't going to crack the top 5 or 10. The point is to be part of something in general. Something that only a handful of people can be a part of. It's the "win or go home" attittude that kills it. Prizes are just there to keep people going year round. The donkey needs the carrot knowing full-well he isn't ever going to catch it.



This is starting to sound familiar.... http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...ead.php?t=1474

[wavster]

I like the quarterly tournament idea, but it wouldn't make much
sense to have WCW participants pay each quarter if they're already
in it for the year. I think it would be a great supplement.

As for a new format, I'm not sure that's the esscence of WCW.
At least for me it's not. It takes a lot to stay focused for
12 months. It also evens out those slumps and freak
good days/months.

It takes all kinds to make it interesting. Josh and Brad are
both excellent fisherman and their position on the
leaderboard proves that. The gap between 2nd and 3rd is wide due
to their skills, not just time on the water.

Maybe we just need to have more 1 day tournaments to get people
fired up...

[jscott]

From someone not in WCW 07 here are a few ideas.

-if we want more participation in wcw-- then require all posts within 72hrs of catch(or as soon as return home from out of country). But put WCW08 forum board to be private so that only registrants can view this. This takes away the fears that lurkers will flood the area. And people who like the intel (as I would) would be more than willing to join-- knowing that they wouldn't likely place top 3
-fishing is about fun, friends we meet, and challenging your own personal goals...I bet many will be more than happy to 'out' a bite if they know only the wcw kayak community can see this report. It also takes some of the luck out of it...as everyone will have the same intel/info and some people aren't better connected to a private pipeline of info.
-Start it either immediately after wcw07 or very soon thereafter. With YT bite heating up-- if there was a break and it didn't start until the fall (or offseason for many fisherman)-- less people would be willing to pay and sign up. Summer fishing in 08 needs to be included if you want a large group of people. (more people = more payout)
-Supplemental contests/giveaways will definitely keep more interest....maybe some smaller prizes for players after top 3-- top 10 get a WCW Beanie...11-20 get a t-shirt-- 21-30 get a box of crackers... etc..

my 2 cents that may only be worth 1 cent.

[wavster]

I like the 72 hour post suggestion, as well. I would definitely agree that
the WCW forum be locked to participants only, with that rule.

[madscientist]

Originally Posted by jscott

-fishing is about fun, friends we meet, and challenging your own personal goals...

That is an essential point right there. I get the feeling some people are more interested in the trophy than in the experience. Got to prove your "the best". But kayak fishing is not about that, and even if it were it's an improper medium with insufficient statistics. Take my win at the BWE tournament (or even the WCW kickoff). 90% or more of the contestants are perfectly capable of landing that fish. A dozen guys were in the same area doing the exact same thing as I was. I did nothing special, just did the right thing at the right time and then got lucky. Doesn't make me a better fisherman. In it's current incarnation, WCW is a reward for time on the water, with a side of luck as to when the point fish come (Unless you're Arne, in which case I don't know what the hell it is: some combination of skill, commitment, luck, and a deal with the devil I suspect).


Having a ton of time to fish is a reward in itself, there's no need to collect the props and cash from those that don't, and certainly no need to wave it in other people's faces.

Unless the format is something that is is more good natured and fun, I will not do WCW next year, except perhaps jackpots.


I suggest those that want to measure effort and dedication set up their own competition where they can punch in and out on the webcam, thus proving who spends the most time on the water. Perhaps have a multiplier based on the conditions (like degree of difficulty in diving), judged by the BWE viewership. Bonus points for taking a dump at sea (the Andy special). Tape shot required.lol

[Holy Mackerel]

As per usual, very good insights, comments, concerns... etc...

I doubt I will have time to commit to WCW this year, due to other types of water activities etc, I am interested in... Besides a non-flex work schedule, I am Mexican, so I got family stuff every weekend...!

If anything, I'd like to see non-participants be allowed in the JP series, actually, that would make them participants, so lets reframe that... That would jack up the JP's for biggest YT, WSB, Hali, and slam... In fact, this may be the only true measure to "level" the playing field for a yearly contest, albeit, not quite as exciting...


chris

[Holy Mackerel]

I know I just posted, but unfortunately one other concern is the MLPA, and us as fisherman, and hopefully conservators of our local fishery, besting our already two #30 YT's, or 2 #50 WSB, to get a #38, and #53 respectfully for points, may do more harm than good. Dont get me wrong, I see nothing unethical about catching and keeping within the current laws. Nor, do I think we are putting a great dent in the pelagic fishery, then again, I have no science to really back that statement up... but, I just dont know how good this is on a public board with outside observers looking on for ammunition, on an already big bonfire. I believe Paul Lebowitz stated photos have been presented at Northern MLPA meetings, Paul correct me if I am wrong.

chris

[cabojohn]

I am considering this even though I don't have a snowballs chance in hell. I

It would be great to see some of the money go to the KFASC and there was a private wcw forum that would be good. (whereI could make side bets and heckle from the pnut gallery)

I dunno if this is fair, but I think only 50% of the fish you catch & submit can come from the "county" you live in. Or no more than 50% of the fish can come from one county?
This might level the field and force people to fish other areas. Mix it up a little.

$.02

[nmbrinkman]

Originally Posted by cabojohn

I dunno if this is fair, but I think only 50% of the fish you catch & submit can come from the "county" you live in. Or no more than 50% of the fish can come from one county?
This might level the field and force people to fish other areas. Mix it up a little.

$.02

I like the fact you can fish baja for YT and WSB. I don't like that it's allowance hands me my arse as far as points go but it does push some of us to fish southern waters. I haven't gone yet but WCW is another "reason" for why I need to go when it's time to bring it up to the wife.

[tattuna]

Lots of good suggestions on here. I really like the idea of a private forum. Maybe do that and leave it open to all who joined the year prior too. I have too many side projects goin on to bother joining next year, so that would be cool for me to still follow. But even if it's a private forum for only those who are currently in WCW I think it's a good idea.

Overall, just keep it simple and fun.

[dgax65]

I am comfortable with the current format. Fishing competitions and fishing in general, tend to reward those who get the most time on the water. I don't think we should change the format to handicap those who are dedicated enough to get out and fish frequently. The current format is very unique, in that it actually rewards the hardcore kayak fisherman. The results reflect dedication, perseverance and effort; kind of like the Iron Man of kayak fishing. If we want to get more people involved or allow more people to feel like they have a chance of winning something, then we should add elements to the supplement the existing format.

What about quarterly mini-tournaments? Each quarter would have a three-day window for submissions. We could do three consecutive days or select 3 Saturdays during the quarter. The Entry fee for each quarterly tournament would be $20, with 50% off for WCW participants. Points for fish caught during the quarterly tournament would also apply to WCW. Participation in the quarterly tournaments would be rewarded by adding 10-20 WCW bonus points per fish caught during the three-day window.

[dorado50]

Originally Posted by dgax65

I am comfortable with the current format. Fishing competitions and fishing in general, tend to reward those who get the most time on the water. I don't think we should change the format to handicap those who are dedicated enough to get out and fish frequently. The current format is very unique, in that it actually rewards the hardcore kayak fisherman. The results reflect dedication, perseverance and effort; kind of like the Iron Man of kayak fishing. If we want to get more people involved or allow more people to feel like they have a chance of winning something, then we should add elements to the supplement the existing format.

What about quarterly mini-tournaments? Each quarter would have a three-day window for submissions. We could do three consecutive days or select 3 Saturdays during the quarter. The Entry fee for each quarterly tournament would be $20, with 50% off for WCW participants. Points for fish caught during the quarterly tournament would also apply to WCW. Participation in the quarterly tournaments would be rewarded by adding 10-20 WCW bonus points per fish caught during the three-day window.

Well stated, I think you know about competitions and its affects on the soul....