Can You Carry a Concealed Weapon on a Kayak

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by Siebler

Jim, If you look at the San Diego County Sheriffs No Shoot Map and their regulations they end in most cases at the edge of the Pacific Ocean. I have had numerous discussions with Game Wardens about this due to hunting Sea Ducks. They are always really awesome and just say make sure you are outside the Sheriffs No Shoot Zone and follow DFW guidelines/Laws for occupied dwellings. Shooting regulations are run by the county not the state so there is no reason that you should need to be 3 miles out (aka federal waters).....

That makes perfect sense, Thanks for the clarification.

[alanw]

I think up to 3 miles out you are still in county (sheriff) jurisdiction, which is also state (F&G) jurisdiction. Out to 12 miles out is US (FBI) jurisdiction. From shore out to 200 miles is still US (Coast Guard) jurisdiction.

To be sure you'd have to ask the county sheriff, DFG, and the Coast Guard. Carrying and discharging are two different things. Most likely the CG would be the ones responding to a discharge call. It's likely you don't even need to use the fishing exception clause to carry/discharge outside of the 3 mile zone.

I'm not a lawyer and probably wouldn't even rely on my own opinions. The best thing to do is pay a gun lawyer for his opinion and have him on retainer.

[maui jim]

I was going to make some popcorn a couple of days ago....

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by alanw

I think up to 3 miles out you are still in county (sheriff) jurisdiction, which is also state (F&G) jurisdiction. Out to 12 miles out is US (FBI) jurisdiction. From shore out to 200 miles is still US (Coast Guard) jurisdiction.

Yup....

Traditionally territorial seas were the first three miles from shore. That was the recognized distance of jurisdiction from any nation's shore. That border for the high the "high seas" was established in general Maritime law because back in the day 3 miles was as far as a long range shore battery (canons) could still fire on a ship. During prohibition this was increased to 12 miles in the US (canons be damned) and the 1988 Territorial Sea Proclamation established the "high seas" border at 12 miles in international law.

Locally in California this three mile zone, which is still marked on the charts as "territorial seas" is now considered both formal county and state jurisdiction.

I.E. the county sheriff 's control it and can arrest you but that control is limited to three miles offshore. That's why Siebler's comments are right on the money. In the first three miles your dealing with the Sheriff's but their official California Government Code jurisdiction ONLY goes three miles offshore.

Official California state jurisdiction overlaps the same zone and it is also limited to three miles offshore except in a a “closed bay” scenario in which case the state can have more extensive jurisdiction. For example:

"The Supreme Court found in “U.S. v. California” 381 US 139, 14 L.Ed.2d 296 (1965) that Monterey Bay was a “closed bay” and thus the State of California had jurisdiction well beyond the usual 3-mile limit out to 12 miles at the middle of that Bay."

That said your far more likely to have to deal with the Sheriffs then any kind of state officials in that first three miles because they are the guys that have the boats, they patrol it on the water daily and they answer the calls.

Once again listen to Siebler he has it right. Sheriffs are the ones your dealing with if you fire your gun within three miles of the shore unless your in somewhere where you have to deal with other State or law enforcement personnel like Long Beach harbor.

Beyond that three miles is the zone of official United States sovereignty and under law this is out to 12 nautical miles from the nearest point of land including islands, and sometimes a little more in the closed bay scenario I described above. Basically no-one is going to hassle you about weapons in federal waters unless you do something really stupid. For instance a while back some guys were firing machine guns out by the San Pedro oil rigs and they got their guns confiscated even though they owned them legally and they were five miles offshore.

Beyond 12 miles is the zone of internationally recognized jurisdiction over seabed and fisheries resources. Although any nation’s ship can transit those waters under the doctrine of “freedom of the seas,” the nation with the jurisdiction may regulate fishing, seabed mining, oil drilling, and that jurisdiction extends out 200 nautical miles from the nearest point of land, including islands.

So bottom line. You can carry a unloaded gun to the launch site, and carry a loaded gun with you while kayak fishing. If your within three miles of shore your under County and State jurisdiction and you may or may not be able to fire the weapon legally depending on local ordinances and law, and if someone complains your most likely going to dealing with the County Sheriffs.

If you go out over three miles you can not only carry it but fire the weapon as much as you want as long as your not doing something stupid that endangers others.

[bubblehide]

Transporting is where they will get most offenses. And generally speaking, if you don't have a CCW or a badge, the ammo needs to be separated from the gun. And, both need to be in locked containers, one of which can be the glove box (if it locks). If in a car, they need to be separated, as one locked in a locked container in the trunk, the other in the cab of the car. If in an SUV, it is advised that both be in separate locked containers in the farthest back (rear) compartment.


With all the overlapping laws, and jurisdictions, some things can get pretty complicated, so much so that many cops aren't sure themselves. However, knowing the hierarchy of jurisdiction, and how superseding works, it's manageable, i.e., the feds set the minimum, local and state agencies can go above and beyond the feds regulations, but can not have less. A state agency's laws/regulations supersede local government...

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by bubblehide

Transporting is where they will get most offenses. And generally speaking, if you don't have a CCW or a badge, the ammo needs to be separated from the gun. And, both need to be in locked containers, one of which can be the glove box (if it locks). If in a car, they need to be separated, as one locked in a locked container in the trunk, the other in the cab of the car. If in an SUV, it is advised that both be in separate locked containers in the farthest back (rear) compartment..

Yeah you're far more likely to get in trouble walking a unloaded weapon from the car to your yak in Malibu then when you are actually carrying it loaded on your kayak while fishing there.

Weird but True

[alanw]

Originally Posted by bubblehide

Transporting is where they will get most offenses. And generally speaking, if you don't have a CCW or a badge, the ammo needs to be separated from the gun. And, both need to be in locked containers, one of which can be the glove box (if it locks). If in a car, they need to be separated, as one locked in a locked container in the trunk, the other in the cab of the car. If in an SUV, it is advised that both be in separate locked containers in the farthest back (rear) compartment.

It's probably true transporting is where you will get the most offenses, and what you said is probably good advise to be overly cautious.

But, ammo does not need to be in a separate container, and it doesn't even have to be locked up. Also, it's written in the penal code that a locked container does not include the glove box. http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/16850.html

I think ammo does need to be locked in a separate container for interstate transport, but for transport within CA it doesn't.

Please see http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...p/Transporting


Anyway, looks like we should have a 3 mile out fishing party

[bubblehide]

Originally Posted by alanw

It's probably true transporting is where you will get the most offenses, and what you said is probably good advise to be overly cautious.

But, ammo does not need to be in a separate container, and it doesn't even have to be locked up. Also, it's written in the penal code that a locked container does not include the glove box. http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/16850.html

I think ammo does need to be locked in a separate container for interstate transport, but for transport within CA it doesn't.

Please see http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...p/Transporting


Anyway, looks like we should have a 3 mile out fishing party

Your right about the glove box, I'm going off of memory here. The thing with Ca, is that our gun laws are in constant flux, constantly changing; usually due to the passing of bills that are not constitutional. As far as ammo needing to be locked up, I read it this past year, as being a new law; if I recall correctly. Give me some time to try and find it again, as I ma rather busy this time of year. I specifically recall reading about it, because I went out and bought a lockable ammo box specifically due to what I read. But you never know, it could had been a bill that passed one house but not the other. I'll do some digging, as I have time.

[ful-rac]

Are we still talking about this crap!

Maybe we should add a... guns and hunting section to the site...

or we should continue this conversation over at calguns....

[radastaff]

Originally Posted by bubblehide

Transporting is where they will get most offenses. And generally speaking, if you don't have a CCW or a badge, the ammo needs to be separated from the gun. And, both need to be in locked containers, one of which can be the glove box (if it locks). If in a car, they need to be separated, as one locked in a locked container in the trunk, the other in the cab of the car. If in an SUV, it is advised that both be in separate locked containers in the farthest back (rear) compartment.


With all the overlapping laws, and jurisdictions, some things can get pretty complicated, so much so that many cops aren't sure themselves. However, knowing the hierarchy of jurisdiction, and how superseding works, it's manageable, i.e., the feds set the minimum, local and state agencies can go above and beyond the feds regulations, but can not have less. A state agency's laws/regulations supersede local government...

eemm

ammo can be with gun
ammo can be in magazine
ammo cant be in magazine in gun
and or in chamber

gun must be in locked container
ammo does not need to be in locked container

this is while in transport in public

see calguns
and the various codes
for clarification

best I feel(though I think it sucks)
is to keep gun in locked container
and ammo and mags with ammo
in another separate locked container
like u mention
well you did mention generally speaking

some cops don't know the law
and its better not to have to fight it
just to get your gear back
and or avoid getting shot by accident

if they see that you have a gun
or you admit to it and or allow a search
they can by law inspect it to see that it is being properly stored
and is legal to own

glovebox storage is not a good idea
locking or not

also I think
transporting near schools and fed buildings
can be problematic

be careful out there

while fishing
I would rather carry a spear
and have thought about it a few times


P

[bus kid]

row.jpg

[Siebler]

Originally Posted by radastaff

eemm

ammo can be with gun
ammo can be in magazine
ammo cant be in magazine in gun
and or in chamber

P

Has this been cleared up? At one point there was controversy in that LEO's considered the ammo in the mag as being loaded (at least with handguns). Also that Ammo being with a handgun was a no however with long guns it was ok. Also glovebox storage is a big NO. The locked container can NOT be connected to vehicle. So your locked toolbox doesnt count. The container may be attached via a locking cable but not bolted down or part of the vehicle.

Now days I just keep my pistol locked, ammo separate, mag unloaded (unless running dirt roads and such away from city limits).

A lot of this stuff falls on the LEO that you deal with and how his day is going and how you treat him. I have only had 1 instance where the LEO was a complete bitch. Luckily her partner was super cool and put her in her place and apologized to me as he checked my carry weapon and bid me a good evening. Just because you are elgal doenst mean you arnt going to have to fight in court with these crap gun laws.

[radastaff]

well according to what ive read recently at calguns
and the code sited
but I error on the side of caution regardless
DYODD