WCW Poll - next season start

[madscientist]

I've enjoyed WCW these last few years and the competitive element has definitely pushed me and others to raise their game, but I think it's starting to corrupt the underlying idea. When it began I thought it a celebration of big fish and what is possible from the yak. I think it has achieve that. But at some point it gets silly and counterproductive. I've always felt my primary competition to be with the fish that does not want to die; I don't care what anyone else does or does not catch. Fishing for points is not what it is about, and if you need a trophy to validate your time on the water then I hear there is a bass circuit that would be perfect. Just be sure not to gaff the trout!

[One Rev]

I was going to post something real brainy then I realized that I have had one to many Margaritas to make any sense so just consider this a non post. By the way I agree with Mr. Madscientist.
Mike
One Rev

[lamb]

Cool discussion, keep it coming.

Nate. you're funny.

And c'mon, vote on the poll whether to start next season right away (or with a short break), or take some time off. 20 votes don't mean much.

The format has been slightly changing each year, but there are 2 signatures for WCW - YT+WSB+HB as a target fish, and a year long format.

12 months is a lot of time...

No dis-respect to anyone, but sure thing that with more time on the water, the chances of scoring big are better. But that will be the case no matter how you flip the format.

There are very few of us fortunate enough to spend a lot of time of the water. I think the format should be changed to try to bridge that gap.

Personally, I'll play it and enjoy it regardless.

But we must try to bring end emphasize the fun element of WCW... And it must be fun for all.

[dorado50]

WCW is like a second job. If you don't have one (a second job) than this is it. Fish before ,after or during your other job. This is a very unique tournament that takes alot out of onesself, physically, mentally and emotionally, perhaps that is why there is always a winner! Changing the format to cater to the people that don't put in the effort for this tourney is wrong imo. A one day shot at fish is pretty much luck, however a year long tourny is all skill and fortitude. I,myself have never been in a tournament ,where prize monies were involved to be fun... This is an awesome tournament, and not another like it that I know of, leave it alone or go home........

[tylerdurden]

I think there should be a break. Let people recharge.

I think some people have lost sight of the real goal of fishing because of WCW. Fishing is supposed to be fun. If you are going out fishing in miserable conditions just to have a shot at points for a stupid contest it just isn't the same anymore. Add on all the internet bullshit and pissing contest and we've seen what happens. I have made some great friends through the contest. The contest has also gotten to the point where not everyone knows each other and some don't like each other. It is no longer a silly contest between friends.

[dorado50]

Tyler, I think that if there were no monies and prizes offered than this could be fun again, but once it becomes a contest there must be a winner. You can be friends off the court but not necessary on the court,or ring, or racetrack,etc..This is no different.If one doesn't want to win why enter in the first place?

[fishdude]

I diffinetly agree with madscientist and lambs last remarks. If your fishing to prove a point with getting more points and showing someone up that is weak, let the fish be your trophy and your friends and good times be the reason for getting out there.
Not everyone can fish 5,10, 20 times a month. If there were more monthly tournys or jackpots I would be in for sure. Only being able to fish 1 a month or on a good month 5 times, depending on the time of year, I would have more encouragement for myself to try and win 1 month out of 12.
What you could do is the twelve months in the year turn into twelve tournys, then at the end of the year accumulate the points for each of the months to get an overall winner. Have an option to buy in for the overall year total. Basically 13 tournys in a givin year, individual month tournys and the overall fishslayer who likes to and can have the time to fish all year, unlike the rest of us who actually work for a livinglol . Just a thought.
Always wanted to participate with the plastic navy but just do not have the time. If there were more monthly things I would be down with that.

[nmbrinkman]

Originally Posted by dorado50

WCW is like a second job. If you don't have one (a second job) than this is it. Fish before ,after or during your other job. This is a very unique tournament that takes alot out of onesself, physically, mentally and emotionally, perhaps that is why there is always a winner! Changing the format to cater to the people that don't put in the effort for this tourney is wrong imo. A one day shot at fish is pretty much luck, however a year long tourny is all skill and fortitude. I,myself have never been in a tournament ,where prize monies were involved to be fun... This is an awesome tournament, and not another like it that I know of, leave it alone or go home........

I never have been and won't be someone who bitches about my lack of oppurtunity to fish or complains how I can't keep up with the guys who have quick access and time to fish LJ. That's fine, it is what it is. But...

...Effort has little to do with it. What makes you think your effort is any greater than anyone else's anyway?

A full effort and me fishing at every available opportunity does not mean that I'm going to be out there just as much as you. Our same effort and all my spare time may result in usually 2-3 outings a month (5-6 max) while yours may be 2-3 times a week (if not more). Don't just assume that because you don't see the lower third out as much as you that that they're putting out less effort. Just seems a bit Bush league.

Like I said earlier. I don't care about the situations some have that allow them to fish more or whatever. I'll still join WCW 08 and 09 if that's possible and I'll still give 100%. As for where I place, that really isn't up to me IMO. As for a second job, when fishing becomes a job I quit. But throw in kids and fishing is a third job.

As for the format. It makes sense and is simple and clear to understand. I don't mind it the way it is. But I do see where others are coming from. It's no secret that the top 10 have much more opportunity to fish than the bottom 21. That is in no way taking away from their skill. But I can understand where the guys in the lower rankings are coming from. If it's not "fun" for the non top 10, why should they join? So they can hand their money to the top 3? There is no WCW without #31 - #11.

With that said, some take the tournament a little too serious. It's still just fishing. I joined WCW to be a part of something fun. I mean how can it not be with a YT jackpot prize that includes a whole lot of beer. I guess that's easy for me to say though.

[dorado50]

Originally Posted by nmbrinkman

Actually it's a third job. Work, Family, Fishing. I wish it weren't that way but it is. I'm not and won't be someone who bitches about my lack of oppurtunity to fish or complains how I can't keep up with the guys who have quick access and time to fish LJ. That's fine it is what it is. If you ask me, some take it a little too serious and a little too personal. It's still just fishing. I joined WCW to be a part of something fun. I mean how can it not be with a certain prize that includes beer.I guess that's easy for me to say though.

To get that prize one needs to work real hard and take it seriously. Its a "contest" not a giveaway!! Its competition, love or leave it........

[nmbrinkman]

Originally Posted by dorado50

To get that prize one needs to work real hard and take it seriously. Its a "contest" not a giveaway!! Its competition, love or leave it........

Like I said after I edited my post, there is not a competition without the bottom two-thirds. Although I'm on your side in regards to the issue, but the "prizes" may be bigger with a larger field (more sponsors). That may mean you have to allow "giveaways" but the top prizes would be bigger.

[dorado50]

Originally Posted by nmbrinkman

I never have been and won't be someone who bitches about my lack of oppurtunity to fish or complains how I can't keep up with the guys who have quick access and time to fish LJ. That's fine, it is what it is. But...

...Effort has little to do with it. What makes you think your effort is any greater than anyone else's anyway?

A full effort and me fishing at every available opportunity does not mean that I'm going to be out there just as much as you. Our same effort and all my spare time may result in usually 2-3 outings a month (5-6 max) while yours may be 2-3 times a week (if not more). Don't just assume that because you don't see the lower third out as much as you that that they're putting out less effort. Just seems a bit Bush league.

Like I said earlier. I don't care about the situations some have that allow them to fish more or whatever. I'll still join WCW 08 and 09 if that's possible and I'll still give 100%. As for where I place, that really isn't up to me IMO. As for a second job, when fishing becomes a job I quit. But throw in kids and fishing is a third job.

As for the format. It makes sense and is simple and clear to understand. I don't mind it the way it is. But I do see where others are coming from. It's no secret that the top 10 have much more opportunity to fish than the bottom 21. That is in no way taking away from their skill. But I can understand where the guys in the lower rankings are coming from. If it's not "fun" for the non top 10, why should they join? So they can hand their money to the top 3? There is no WCW without #31 - #11.

With that said, some take the tournament a little too serious. It's still just fishing. I joined WCW to be a part of something fun. I mean how can it not be with a YT jackpot prize that includes a whole lot of beer. I guess that's easy for me to say though.

You should join only to become one of the top three and make some friends along the way and gain a whole lot of knowlege.....

[nmbrinkman]

If people only joined to be part of the top 3 then only 5 people would join. Most of us join knowing full well we aren't going to crack the top 5 or 10. The point is to be part of something in general. Something that only a handful of people can be a part of. It's the "win or go home" attittude that kills it. Prizes are just there to keep people going year round. The donkey needs the carrot knowing full-well he isn't ever going to catch it.



This is starting to sound familiar.... http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...ead.php?t=1474

[Holy Mackerel]

As per usual, very good insights, comments, concerns... etc...

I doubt I will have time to commit to WCW this year, due to other types of water activities etc, I am interested in... Besides a non-flex work schedule, I am Mexican, so I got family stuff every weekend...!

If anything, I'd like to see non-participants be allowed in the JP series, actually, that would make them participants, so lets reframe that... That would jack up the JP's for biggest YT, WSB, Hali, and slam... In fact, this may be the only true measure to "level" the playing field for a yearly contest, albeit, not quite as exciting...


chris

[Holy Mackerel]

I know I just posted, but unfortunately one other concern is the MLPA, and us as fisherman, and hopefully conservators of our local fishery, besting our already two #30 YT's, or 2 #50 WSB, to get a #38, and #53 respectfully for points, may do more harm than good. Dont get me wrong, I see nothing unethical about catching and keeping within the current laws. Nor, do I think we are putting a great dent in the pelagic fishery, then again, I have no science to really back that statement up... but, I just dont know how good this is on a public board with outside observers looking on for ammunition, on an already big bonfire. I believe Paul Lebowitz stated photos have been presented at Northern MLPA meetings, Paul correct me if I am wrong.

chris

[dgax65]

I am comfortable with the current format. Fishing competitions and fishing in general, tend to reward those who get the most time on the water. I don't think we should change the format to handicap those who are dedicated enough to get out and fish frequently. The current format is very unique, in that it actually rewards the hardcore kayak fisherman. The results reflect dedication, perseverance and effort; kind of like the Iron Man of kayak fishing. If we want to get more people involved or allow more people to feel like they have a chance of winning something, then we should add elements to the supplement the existing format.

What about quarterly mini-tournaments? Each quarter would have a three-day window for submissions. We could do three consecutive days or select 3 Saturdays during the quarter. The Entry fee for each quarterly tournament would be $20, with 50% off for WCW participants. Points for fish caught during the quarterly tournament would also apply to WCW. Participation in the quarterly tournaments would be rewarded by adding 10-20 WCW bonus points per fish caught during the three-day window.

[dorado50]

Originally Posted by dgax65

I am comfortable with the current format. Fishing competitions and fishing in general, tend to reward those who get the most time on the water. I don't think we should change the format to handicap those who are dedicated enough to get out and fish frequently. The current format is very unique, in that it actually rewards the hardcore kayak fisherman. The results reflect dedication, perseverance and effort; kind of like the Iron Man of kayak fishing. If we want to get more people involved or allow more people to feel like they have a chance of winning something, then we should add elements to the supplement the existing format.

What about quarterly mini-tournaments? Each quarter would have a three-day window for submissions. We could do three consecutive days or select 3 Saturdays during the quarter. The Entry fee for each quarterly tournament would be $20, with 50% off for WCW participants. Points for fish caught during the quarterly tournament would also apply to WCW. Participation in the quarterly tournaments would be rewarded by adding 10-20 WCW bonus points per fish caught during the three-day window.

Well stated, I think you know about competitions and its affects on the soul....

[aguachico]

Originally Posted by dordao50

Changing the format to cater to the people that don't put in the effort for this tourney is wrong imo. A one day shot at fish is pretty much luck, however a year long tourny is all skill and fortitude.

.!