not a yellow but just as much fun

[Dan]

Originally Posted by j mo

I can’t find much online on the subject. and I’d like to better understand their importance to the ecosystem and fishery. If anyone can share info on the subject I would appreciate it.
Josh

the T-shark sensitivity comes from that they have very small litters of pups and a long gestation period. They get hammered commercially offshore and the recreational guys do a good job at killing a ton of em too.

[Quilted Germ]

Seems if there was a serious threat to the species that there would be some regulations with respect to their size, no? Just seems like some guys have a bit more affinity to some species versus others....I'm just sayin'...

[Iceman]

I would bet the rise in local T sharks, right along with halibut and WSB is a direct result of the ban on inshore gill nets.

[Zed]

^Plus the banning of fish traps (mostly sheephead) and mouse trap fishing.

Just for relativity: Looking back, I am amazed at some of the styles and geographical areas that were fished so extensively [DP had fish traps along the inshore for miles and miles. Sheephead were a very rare catch on H&L. Plus the mousetrap (a bunch of buoys with line and hooks for each one. Like a longline, w/o the connecting long line. Sit out there in your skiff and if a buoy moves, fish on, and chase it down) style was common off DP] Then, it was just fishing and no one was telling them it was all that wrong. So in 30years, what are we going to look back on?

"I can't believe people use to take threshers." ?

Just playin devil's advocate here.

To the OP: Nice fish. If after you have gone thru the hook, fight, land, dispatch, paddle, carry, chill, cut, seal and freeze/give away the shark, you still are game to take another, go for it. You're more fanatic than I. Too big a PITA (no pun) for me to do more than once. More manageable sized finfish for me.

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by Sherm

So which thresher do you keep? The small one that tastes great and isn't of breeding age yet.... or the large one that is a breeding machine?

Threshers are big game like Marlin. It's funny but you never hear anyone saying people should go out targeting little 80 pound Marlin because they are good to eat.

So it's the old pup vrs breeder argument.

Well since I've been fishing them for decades and used to be considered kind of a shark fishing Guru... I'll give you my two cents for what it's worth.

The deal is the thresher population can be broken down into two basic groups: the young ones under 200 pounds that school up inshore that are really easy to catch and the larger ones that are more solitary, usually further offshore, that fight much harder, and are also much harder to target.

There are exceptions: occasionally you'll hook big ones tight to the beach, sometimes you'll catch pups offshore, but in general that's the gist there are two basic population groups and they behave in different ways.

Don't take my word for it read Archers books, he says exactly the same thing.

So you have two groups:The smaller inshore T's are easily overfished, the larger ones Offshore T's are harder to find and catch so they are much harder to overfish recreationally, or commercially.

The commercials used to target the inshore pups but the DFG had to close that fishery down, because back when they targeted the inshore pups with gillnets they almost fished them out.

If you encourage people to take small inshore T sharks they will simply be fished harder, with many more of the sharks taken. If you just encourage them to take mature ones, less will be taken just because they are simply harder to target and catch. Just like with the commercials the offshore mature T's are just that much harder for the Recs to find and target, so by encouraging fisherman to take only adults you'll actually greatly reduce their catch numbers, by a ratio of maybe eight to one.

The counter argument is that breeder sharks have survived the test of time and produce pups.

The problem is that that idea ignores some basic realities. Look at the pup above... what could kill and eat that seven foot T shark? Well a full grown Mako could kill it, a White could kill it, and a Killer Whale could kill it, but that is it... well.... other then man.

That said I've never heard of a Mako killing a T shark, Whites are too slow for them, and though Killer whales are known to kill White Sharks for their livers I have never heard of a documented case where they have killed a T shark.

In other words if he had released that little T it would have probably about a 99.9% chance of surviving to adulthood, a female over 400 pounds, unless it was caught by another angler.

It's the same with Makos. 80% of the Makos taken in Southern California are under 60 inches, that includes both recs and commercials.

Some of us have been fighting for over a decade to make the DFG set up a sixty inch size limit on Makos and a 96 inch size limit on T sharks. California is the only coastal shark fishery in the US without such a size limit for pelagic sharks, but the DFG just will not give us that limit because the commercials intentionally still target the immature Makos offshore.

Put a size limit on them and the DFG will have to do something about the commercials targeting them, and since the commercials would loose a ton of cash, we're not going to get a size limit for either of our sharks any time in the near future.

The commercials used to target the inshore pup threshers under eight feet with gillnets as well, but after they were almost wiped them out, the DFG closed the inshore net fishery to protect them. They did not close the offshore fishery because once again the adults are harder to find and target and do not school like the inshore pups, so offshore the commercials can't kill enough of them to have a negative impact on their population numbers.

T's responded well to that change, and there's no reason not to believe that a recreational size limit on threshers would not have a similar positive effect on their population numbers, as it would protect the exact same population segment of T sharks that the gillnet ban protected.

Bottom line if you protect the inshore pups and you will have a thriving adult populations with a exceptional fishery for them.

As to eating quality I've eaten T's from 80 pounds to over 400 pounds and the meat is all the same. If I had a preference fro eating I'd say 200 pounds is about right as you get really nice steaks from a shark that size and it's not so much to deal with. Over 200 pounds it get's really hard to get it into the boat when your fishing solo.

Here's an Adult over fourteen and a half feet I caught back in the mid nineties....



back then T's of that size were much rarer then they are now, and I had to tie that one along side the boat...

That shark sounded 1200 feet straight down when I hooked her offshore, I followed her five miles before she came up and started jumping. Though I fought her for many hours, three or four, the meat was excellent and I fed a lot of people with that shark. None of it went to waste. Honestly it was the most exciting fish I have ever hooked, as it fought better that any Marlin or Tuna I have seem. That's why I see these fish as big game. The larger ones fight incredibly hard, I'd say as well as big Bluefin but still short of swordfish.

When I target T's now I only target adults, for sport, only from a skiff, only offshore with 80 pound gear. That way I'm not likely to hook small ones and any sub adult fish I hook I can get in and release quickly. I only keep sharks that I can not revive and I limit myself to one a year.

The last two a kept both were tail hooked and died on the line. A female I got off Newport...


.... and a male I got off Dana.....

Though it was cool to catch them both of those sharks kinda of pissed me off, because I caught them both within thirty minutes of trolling, on my first trip of the season. So in both cases that meant season was done for me, as I only take maximum of one a year.

Lots of people over the years have asked me advice about T sharks, I've even been asked to write articles for major fishing magazines about them.

My take is I do not want write those articles because I do not want to see them targeted any more then they already are, unless the DFG is willing to change it's policy and install a size limit on them.

As to advice I always say the same things. Fish heavy gear to reduce mortality, release them if you can, take a maximum of one per year no exceptions, and always have lots of room in your freezer just in case you inadvertently kill one and have to take it home.

So that's my long winded take. Bottom line encourage people to take adults and they simply will take less of them.

Just my opinion though, Jim

[-scallywag-]

My apologies to fishchaser and anyone else I offended with my previous post, I was outa line. Thanks Andy for editing my post, i am truly the Richard here.

I love the ocean and all its yummy (and not so yummy) animals, particularly sharks. So when I read this entertaining, well written post, followed by some awesome pictures, followed by some not so awesome pictures I was bummed. One because they obviously did enough research to find where the sharks where and what to use (wire leader/circle hook). And, two, after seeing a shark un-bled on the beach (for a second time) it makes me wonder if they are even eating these sharks, or just taking them for sport. Hopefully they just don't know any better.

The reasons I don't HARVEST T's, very similar to why most anglers don't keep marlin or swordfish:

I am fascinated with sharks, but T's are my favorite for so many reasons. Neat colors, fast, strong fighters, lotsa breaches when hooked, don't bother you when spear fishing, unique shape and hunting tactics, quasi warm blooded, advanced optics in an ancient predator, exc...

They are a top tier predator and instinctually selective. They have few natural enemies and they instinctually pray on slow, week or sick prey. This insures healthy breeding stocks by removing the ill equipped. Without natural selection you end up with a "genetic cesspool" of sorts....similar to that of the ever present Homo sapiens.

Tsharks have highly developed optics and are "warm bodied" (I think makos are the only other shark that can generate/regulate body temp) which makes them highly adapted to hunting in deep waters where those ugly rojo diablos (Humboldt squid) live. Read about the Humboldt squid in wiki... I believe the highly adaptive and fast growing H.squid has the ability to wipe out fisheries in a relatively short period of time if there are no other apex predator to compete for food with. Or better yet the T.shark may be one of the H.squid's only natural predators besides toothed whales (just my theory).

Like all large sharks, threshers have a low fecundity (mature in 7-13years, 2pups, 9mo gestation) and are therefore highly vulnerable to over fishing. They have been recently classified as vulnerable to extinction.

As for DFG, I believe that this time last year DFG had considered a "no take" period for threshers or punch tag (certain #of fish per tagged angler) so they are obviously concerned about them. I'm sure the gill net ban helped take some pressure off these fish, along with responsible fishing practices by most sport fishermen (circle hooks, live bait, hookless trollers, CP&R especially for females).

That said, as a sport fisherman I have no problem with targeting, harvesting and eating any legal fish or targeting them and releasing them for that matter. I do have a problem with killing a fish just to say you did. In the future please consider CP&R'ing sharks, or if you really wanna keep one at least try to take a similar size male, its not like they’re hard to catch?
If you wanna target T's from a yak for fun, but don't want to harm or harvest one, try using a 40-50lb flouro leader to the circle hook/live bait, usually the shark will break off after a couple jumps, if not, its easy to cut (unlike a wire leader). Also read this, lotsa good info on here if you wanna play nice with the T's.


http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/at...st-tshark2.jpg

[JrBasser]

Ignore the science lesson. It shows up just about everytime the threshers are around. Nice fish!

[fishchaser25]

look scallywag you can lay off the rant cuz i really dont care about your self ritghteous love for threshers. the fact is it I like to eat threshers and I target fish under 200# because anthing larger is near impossable to land on a kayak and what am I going to do with 200+ pounds of steaks. plus I only keep one or two threshers a year. the fact is I only keep what im going to eat and if you have a problem with that then sorry. O and for the record I did bleed the shark and I also grilled some that same night and it was great. Jimday thank you very much and I really appreciate all your info. thanks to everyone els who saw this post for what it really was. A REPORT. so please save your lectures for some1 who cares (scallywag)

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by fishchaser25

Jim Day thank you very much and I really appreciate all your info.

Cool... I'm glad you didn't take offence.

My take on your catch is it's a legal catch, and if you want to take one that is your business. It's not like you were out in a skiff hammering the sh!t out of them.

I wish the DFG would change some regs and put a size limit on them but until then more power to you.

I'm just blown away your out there in shorts I would of been freezing my ass off

Jim

[Gino]

Originally Posted by fishchaser25

look scallywag you can lay off the rant cuz i really dont care about your self ritghteous love for threshers. the fact is it I like to eat threshers and I target fish under 200# because anthing larger is near impossable to land on a kayak and what am I going to do with 200+ pounds of steaks. plus I only keep one or two threshers a year. the fact is I only keep what im going to eat and if you have a problem with that then sorry. O and for the record I did bleed the shark and I also grilled some that same night and it was great. Jimday thank you very much and I really appreciate all your info. thanks to everyone els who saw this post for what it really was. A REPORT. so please save your lectures for some1 who cares (scallywag)

You told me you got one that was 400lbs from your x-factor!!

[Billy V]

Thresher Jack 1st. Place Fish 586 lbs. My crazy cousins from Jersey. - several fish were released that day.

[dorado50]

No worries from me Chris, I for one know that you are a good and knowlegable(sp)fisherman....nice report

[WahooUSMA]

Jim, those T-s are huge! Especially the male you caught off DP.

I personally don't harvest the T-s I catch, mainly because I don't have the reefer space, and secondly because they are just such a damn good looking fish. But I won't turn down any of the meat given to me, because they make the best freeking fish taco's. Maybe one day I'll keep one, who knows? To me its for the sport and I get a big hard-on just watching them swim away. But for those who keep them, no worries from me...just pass me a bag of meat every now and then!

[Freespool]

Jim,
Very interesting take on keeping the big vs. the small. Definitely makes me rethink my usual train of thought that the big breeders are the ones to leave alone. What's the deal with mercury levels in the big ones though? Those big threshers have been around a long time eating and bioaccumulating. I think I'd rather feed the neighbor's wife and kids with a smaller one, at least from a health perspective.

I think the more important idea is to try and only keep males, that is if you want to harvest threshers. They are VERY easy to identify with those huge claspers no matter what their size. Game managers have been managing deer and other large game for a long time by only allowing the harvest of males, and it seems to work well for the population. Maybe the same should happen with some species of sharks?

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by Freespool

JWhat's the deal with mercury levels in the big ones though? Those big threshers have been around a long time eating and bioaccumulating...... I think the more important idea is to try and only keep males, that is if you want to harvest threshers.

Those are both good points.

You know it's kind of weird for me as it's such an old issue for me. I just posted kind of the same thing I've been saying for over a decade.

Honestly I've not been keeping up or looking for new information when it comes to T's and Mercury. The last thing I read on mercury was a few years ago and it said that adult T sharks were not as bad as tuna or swordfish when it comes to bio-magnification, but that's now old information.

As to the male shark idea: Yes you are absolutely right if if you want to harvest sharks, it's preferable that you only take males. I should of said something about that in my post. Females carry the young one male can mate with many females.


You might find this interesting but I feel the same way about lobsters. Same idea one male can mate with many females. I occasionaly keep smaller females when hooping is very slow but if possible I release all my females and never keep big females over three pounds. The larger the tail the more eggs they can protect and carry. On the other and I have no problem killing big males as larger males are canibilistic and eat their own young.

Jim

[THE DARKHORSE]

I just want all my favorite irons back!

[shortstack]

Originally Posted by THE DARKHORSE

I just want all my favorite irons back!

LOL!!!!!!!!

[JoeBeck]

Great topic and good info. Thanks Jim for chiming in. The only part of the thread that threw me off was this. This must not be true otherwise you wouldn't see people eating shark.

Originally Posted by j mo

Personally I have no interest in catching a thresher shark or mako. My knowledge of sharks is pretty basic- When a sharks dies the urea in their blood converts to ammonia making the meat taste like ammonia and smell like urine. Nasty!

Personally I have always enjoyed thresher shark as a table fare.

Great catch and way to brave the trunks.

[Ohana]

Originally Posted by JoeBeck

Great topic and good info. Thanks Jim for chiming in. The only part of the thread that threw me off was this. This must not be true otherwise you wouldn't see people eating shark.



Personally I have always enjoyed thresher shark as a table fare.

Great catch and way to brave the trunks.

The issue with urea I think primarily applies to Blue Sharks; my experience with the T-sharks and makos that I have caught is they are comparable to swordfish as far as table fare goes. I have to say that I did bleed the sharks right after getting them next to the boat; this also quickly kills them.

Kevin

[1Flatfish]

I have never caught a thresher. But if I do, how can I tell a male from a female? No jokes please! Well, OK, jokes are good too! but seriously. Diagrams? Pictures? What do claspers look like?

Wayne