Trying to learn more about Rod and Reel setups

[YakDout]

Originally Posted by alanw

I used to carry around a dedicated bait rod, then realized how dumb that was because I have more important uses for my limited rod holders and decided against getting a sabiki rod. Now I just use any available rod that has a hook attached, and run the hook through the swivel on the sabiki rig. It could be a raw hook, a swim bait, a jig, doesn't matter. When done I just unhook the sabiki rig and stow it, then fish with my rod and I don't even need to retie anything.

You never lose the bait rig like that? Or no because there is always tension usinf heavier weights?

[goldenglory18]

Originally Posted by YakDout

I tend to fish for yellowtail with gear that most people would use calico bass fishing. But I like to stay on the lighter side of the spectrum for gear. I landed a 44lb mossback last march on a rod rated 10-20 with no problems. Also this past october landed 2-3 roosterfish over 35lbs with a lexa 300 and a different 10-20lb rod. Different strokes for different folks, but I like to feel the fishes..

That's actually exactly how I like to fish for bass. The only time I'd ever be outgunned is if I hooked up in deep tulies and couldnt wind them out fast enough. I may be sending you a PM here tonight...

Originally Posted by alanw

I used to carry around a dedicated bait rod, then realized how dumb that was because I have more important uses for my limited rod holders and decided against getting a sabiki rod. Now I just use any available rod that has a hook attached, and run the hook through the swivel on the sabiki rig. It could be a raw hook, a swim bait, a jig, doesn't matter. When done I just unhook the sabiki rig and stow it, then fish with my rod and I don't even need to retie anything.

That's brilliant!

[Mahigeer]

I use braid only on my Bait stick to have a better feel of the hit.

It has been my experience that once a mackerel is caught, you have two options. One to reel quickly and land one or two fish, or leave it and catch more.

However, hooking more mackerel increases the chances of tangles. I use about 3-4 OZ. sinker on my rig. It allows me to cast far from the piers.

Casting far is not needed from a kayak.

I have heard of using a heavier sinker like one pound can reduce the tangling, but I have never tried it.

The fouling of the Sabiki rig can happen with any rod anyhow.

I ordered my first 8' rod on line. When I received it, I felt that I would be laughed out of the piers. Thus, I sent it back and bought a 7' at the FHS.

Later I did buy a 8' at FHS and that rod allowed me to cast farther from the pier. I will use the 7' from my kayak.

The low profile casting reel allows a less sever angle from the reel to the hole in the rod where the line enters. Thus, for a better cast.

[Hunters Pa]

Disclaimer: I have worked the Fred Hall shows for Ahi/Promar for a couple years now


I started using the dedicated sabiki stck before my affiliation. I like being able to grab it and deploy a bait catcher within seconds if I see or meter bait. Especially important when bait is scarce. Yes, they are less sensitive and less flex. I use an old shimano Catala with 30# mono. Also, I like to use a heavy jig on the bottom because you never know what will be attracted to a couple baitfish in distress

To each their own. I have done the swivel-on-a-hook approach and it works. But you still need to roll up and stow the rig, then unroll, detangle and attach. Not usually a problem, but with cold hands that are not as nimble as they were 30 years ago I find that in the time it takes me to deploy in any other manner, I can already have a couple baits caught and in the tank with the dedicated stick.

Only one way you will determine if it is for you, and that is to try one out. I live in Fullerton, work in Huntington Beach, and you are welcome to borrow mine for one of your next outings if you want

[YakDout]

Originally Posted by alanw

I used to carry around a dedicated bait rod, then realized how dumb that was because I have more important uses for my limited rod holders and decided against getting a sabiki rod. Now I just use any available rod that has a hook attached, and run the hook through the swivel on the sabiki rig. It could be a raw hook, a swim bait, a jig, doesn't matter. When done I just unhook the sabiki rig and stow it, then fish with my rod and I don't even need to retie anything.

You never lose the bait rig like that? Or no because there is always tension usinf heavier weights?

[FullFlavorPike]

Originally Posted by alanw

I used to carry around a dedicated bait rod, then realized how dumb that was because I have more important uses for my limited rod holders and decided against getting a sabiki rod. Now I just use any available rod that has a hook attached, and run the hook through the swivel on the sabiki rig. It could be a raw hook, a swim bait, a jig, doesn't matter. When done I just unhook the sabiki rig and stow it, then fish with my rod and I don't even need to retie anything.

I don't even bring a sabiki rod. I just sprinkle some chum in the water and slap those little fools into the bait tank like a grizzly bear.

[alanw]

Originally Posted by YakDout

You never lose the bait rig like that? Or no because there is always tension usinf heavier weights?

Yea, good question. I always use at least 4oz weights to avoid the dreaded mackerel ball of sabiki death, so the tension on the hook along with the barb works well to keep it in place. But, after many months I finally lost one when the weight hit the sand and the sabiki just came unhooked - glad I always de-barb them before use. I have since then always run the hook through both eyes of the swivel and have never lost another.

[jorluivil]

It's rare that I carry more than 3 rods on my fishing trips. If you play your cards right and pick a rod and reel that will do the job 99.999% of the time there really is no reason to have an arsenal of 20-30 setups.Don't get caught up in the hype with the 2-speed reels and the 8-rods that are great for casting, chances are that you'll rarely need or use either one, instead get something that fits you, your style of fishing and your kayak.

My 'go-to' rods are both 7' Teramar rods and until recently both rods were outfitted with Shimano Cardiff 400 reels, this is a bait casting reel but I was using them when I would fish for YT, Halibut and WSB. Now, one rod is outfitted with an Avet SX and the other with an SXJ.

As far as sabiki rods go, save yourself some money and use one of the smaller rods that you have sitting around or buy something inexpensive and use one of the reels that is sitting in your garage(conventional or spinning). My Sabiki rod is a 5 or 6 foot ugly stick rod with one of my older Cardiff reels attached to it. Place a rolling swivel hook snap between your sabiki and your main line and you'll be able to change from a sabiki line to a squid catcher in no time.

[DPevin]

Originally Posted by YakDout

You never lose the bait rig like that? Or no because there is always tension usinf heavier weights?

The first time I read his post I imagined a clasp like at the bottom of the sabiki rig for the weight, but put on top the swivel and then snapped to the eye of the hook. But after reading his post again, it does sound like he is just putting the hook through the eye of the swivel....interesting.

I guess my two bits to the whole thread would be to find reels that have a reputation for being durable. And clean them properly after every trip. Being on the kayak so close to the water, and increased chances of reels taking a dip real fast every now and then/water splashing on them...everything just gets beat up more by the salt.

Used rods are a great cheap option, and as its already been said, you can find smoking deals if you just creep the forums and have the cash ready and jump on an opportunity.

My budget has been pretty limited so I have gone the route of used reels. I would highly recommend buying your reels new. The used reels I have bought have been more of a headache than anything. It's just nicer to have confidence in your reels when they are brand new and you know they will work properly. Again, as already stated you don't have to get crazy. There are some great durable reels out there for fair prices that cover all our kayak needs.

[2-Stix]

Originally Posted by chris138

Sub-thread:

Sibiki rods and how worthless they are...

1. no flex easily lets mackerel shake off the hook, and has zero sensitivity.
2. no ability to switch them over to another setup once bait is made, like a backup flyline or iron
3. virtually impossible to re-thread on the water if sibiki breaks
4. internal line routing which is supposed to eliminate tangles, actually tangles the sibiki and it gets stuck inside

The only thing more ridiculous than sibiki rods are people who use an ultra light tackle for sibiki. I don't get it... do you want to spend 5 minutes landing 2 small greenbacks? 65# spec on sibiki WTF.

Actually, 65# spec on all rods. IMO, every rod you have onboard should be capable of landing the largest fish you are targeting.

Bait rod: TLD15 paired with uglystick tiger medium 7', 65# spec... $140 total and can easily hang with any fish you will encounter. Plus, you wont want to shoot yourself when you dump it in the surf.

Jig rod: saltist or sealine paired with a cheap 7' medium heavy rod and straight 40-50 lb mono.

The best kayak rig is one that you don't mind losing in the drink... unless i get sponsored by shimano then I can just dump Trinidad's for days and give zero fux haha

^If 2-stix yard sales at the launch, he's out $2-3k. If i lose all my shit its like 600$.

I fish beach breaks up here. Everything it strapped at launch and landings horizontal. I have leashes on all my rods. I have watched dozens of yardsales. I have a very solid system and brave 3-5' surf. Its not fun, and I am not trying to be macho. I have not been rolled yet. That time will come. The thread was asking about your set ups. I was sharing mine. I am very particular, and a total gear head in all my sports. I spend a ton of time and money on gear. Avets are extremely easy to work on and the best value point I have found for my needs. If you want down and dirty the Ugly Sticks and TLD's are great and will do all the same things.

[chris138]

Originally Posted by 2-Stix

I fish beach breaks up here. Everything it strapped at launch and landings horizontal. I have leashes on all my rods. I have watched dozens of yardsales. I have a very solid system and brave 3-5' surf. Its not fun, and I am not trying to be macho. I have not been rolled yet. That time will come. The thread was asking about your set ups. I was sharing mine. I am very particular, and a total gear head in all my sports. I spend a ton of time and money on gear. Avets are extremely easy to work on and the best value point I have found for my needs. If you want down and dirty the Ugly Sticks and TLD's are great and will do all the same things.

Ya I'm not knocking you for using good gear... and there's guys who spend waaay more on kayak setups. You know what you're doing, and how how to avoid "accidents" in the surf zone or on the water. Avets and Calstars are premium equipment... and it goes without saying that they aren't a great entry level for a guy who is new to ocean kayaking.

[2-Stix]

Originally Posted by chris138

Ya I'm not knocking you for using good gear... and there's guys who spend waaay more on kayak setups. You know what you're doing, and how how to avoid "accidents" in the surf zone or on the water. Avets and Calstars are premium equipment... and it goes without saying that they aren't a great entry level for a guy who is new to ocean kayaking.

I put in a lot of days on charters as well and needed gear that would cross over. Its a bit over the top for the yak, but right for the charters. I had the $200 Penn combos. They worked. When business is good, I get good gear. The last 2 years I was able to spend what I wanted. So I did. My dad is a surfboard builder and flyfishing guide...so I grew up in the water and with good gear. He ruined me.

Fish the Ugly and TLD for a year, and if your still going out, maybe bump up gear.

[chris138]

Originally Posted by 2-Stix

I put in a lot of days on charters and needed gear that would cross over. Its a bit over the top for the yak, but right for the charters. I had the $200 Penn combos. They worked. When business is good, I get good gear. The last 2 years I was able to spend what I wanted. So I did.

Fish the Ugly and TLD for a year, and if your still going out, maybe bump up gear.

Or you could just win all your Avets, like Jorge

haha sorry my intention was to hate on sibiki rods, not your dialed in quiver 2-stix! Your gear is tight.

[taggermike]

Well said Josh. You for the Usually regret buying g good gear Mike.

[taggermike]

You asked about light vs heavy irons.
So Cal style heavy iron fishing is also called yoyo iron. They're usually made of brass and wieght 4-10 oz. You drop the iron down on meter marks. Usually you let the jig hit the bottom then wind it up as fast as you can. Pretty simple. You can cast them and fish them other ways too. Since little or no casting is needed a heavy action 6-7' rod is the way to go.

Surface iron is much different. The irons are made of aluminum and wiegh 2-5 oz. These irons are used when fish are feeding on or near the surface. When fish or working birds are seen you cast the light irons in to the area. Often long casts are need so the rods are usually 8-10' long. From a yak you can use shorter rods and even spinning reels to make the long casts. Mike

[goldenglory18]

Originally Posted by taggermike

You asked about light vs heavy irons.
So Cal style heavy iron fishing is also called yoyo iron. They're usually made of brass and wieght 4-10 oz. You drop the iron down on meter marks. Usually you let the jig hit the bottom then wind it up as fast as you can. Pretty simple. You can cast them and fish them other ways too. Since little or no casting is needed a heavy action 6-7' rod is the way to go.

Surface iron is much different. The irons are made of aluminum and wiegh 2-5 oz. These irons are used when fish are feeding on or near the surface. When fish or working birds are seen you cast the light irons in to the area. Often long casts are need so the rods are usually 8-10' long. From a yak you can use shorter rods and even spinning reels to make the long casts. Mike

Awesome explanation, thanks Mike!!

[Mahigeer]

Originally Posted by chris138

haha sorry my intention was to hate on sibiki rods, not your dialed in quiver 2-stix!

Why not donate your Sabiki rod to the OP?

[goldenglory18]

Ok, now that I've learned a bit more about salt setups, I wonder if I just need to offload some of my random gear and just start over. Here is what I have now....

RODS:
Okuma Helios w/ micro guides 7'MH - Super light rod that I've been using to throw 110 sized jerkbaits in the bays. I like he rod but its pretty limited in its application. Although I did catch my first Halibut in MDR with this stick!

Okuma EVX-A 7'5" H - Not really sure it has a home in my lineup anymore but it's a decent smaller swimbait rig.

Daiwa DX Swimbait 8' XH - Thinking maybe an inshore bass stick?

Okuma Makaira 8' ML
Daiwa Proetus 8' MHF
These two rods are REALLLLY close together in capability. When testing the bend in the rods and doing a little "lawn fishing", they feel really close in power and weight tolerance. The Daiwa maybe has another 2oz of capability over the Okuma, with the Okuma having more sensitivity. They feel too close to keep both.

REELS:
Quantum Smoke Inshore - Super light weight and pairs well with the Helios. Makes that MH setup feel a lot lighter than it really is. Again, its pretty limited in its application though.

Okuma Komodo 364 w/power handle (older w/ red accents) - Decent reel but nothing landed with it yet. I'd be willing to seek out another as they seem to have a decent reputation for inshore and some offshore applications.

Daiwa Saltist LW20 w/level wind - Seems like a great reel. Solid in hand with little play in the mechanics. Feels too heavy for the Proteus and the Makaira. I think I either need to trade this out, or find a dedicated jig stick for it.

So....thoughts, suggestions, criticism? Much appreciated as always!

- Kenny