Trying to learn more about Rod and Reel setups
 

All,

Looking at used rods and reels around this and other forums, I think I'm realizing that I still don't know enough about the saltwater gear as I should.

Does anyone have handy, or know of a good read that I can dive into that explains the "three setups" rule? 15-30, 30-40, 40-50lbs? That's line weights right? Not fish weight? Does each one of those setups have a specific technique attached to it (like LMB setups) or is it more general than that?

Also, would anyone like to critique what I have so far and help guide me in filling the gaps?

Much appreciated as always!

- Kenny

The numbers are listed tested line strength. I use braid of #60 or so and top it with 30-40 yards of mono, then tie the appropriate leader of about (5) feet long.

Some times the fish (yellowtails) are finicky and would become line shy.

Some times the fish are bigger and heavier line is needed.

If you are in the market to buy conventional reels, I highly recommend (2) speed reels.

Being so close to water on a kayak, no need for long rods.

I hope this is good start for you answer.

Lots of rod/tackle posts here if you search for them. Also BD has some good articles too. What are you targeting? Yellowtail? Bass? Rockfish? Lots of info around!

Fred Hall Shows
 

Go to one of the Fred Hall Shows and you can talk directly to the top rod manufacturers and suppliers about their products.
The Long Beach show is the first week of March. If you can't wait till then...the PCS Festival is February 17 thru 19...stop by the CCA CAL booth at either one and sign up so you can fish the "Battle of the Bays" tournaments in May and June.

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwegall...ker_CMYK-2.jpg

Hey GGloryH,

Deep breath, slow down. Don't get caught up in the hype. There are a lot of great setups at significant variation in pricing. I am on the low medium end of the budget scale. Here are my go-to's.

Terramar Inshore Tmc x70H
I put Daiwa X20 SHA reels on them. Many will say this reel is too small but they're just whiny jack offs, lol. A great kayak reel at a fair price and catches all of our fish. Nothing better than fighting big fish on good, smaller gear. It's the drags and line that really matter anyways. Try to buy your reels new.

Cal Star Grafightet 700 L
And a CS 700 ML
Solid solid backbone
These both have Shimano Toriums (16 & 20) but only because they carried over from my boating days. These reels suck as kayak reels unless you dry bag them on launch and landings, which is what I suggest for all of your reels.

The fiberglass or composite rods will hold up MUCH BETTER than straight graphite, esp if you bang your rods around.
Phenix SUCKS as kayak rods and their warranty is the ABSOLUTE WORST, trust me.

If you're the type, think abt buying your rods used. Take your time and troll bloody decks. Make sure there are no bruises and CLEAN ASS guides. You'll find guys dumping great rods at crazy low prices, if you're quick. I bought one of those Cal Stars for $90. Dude needed money. Also, Cal Star and Shimano have GREAT WARRANTY's if a rod breaks, trust me.

Hope this helps. Good luck!:the_finger:

Jim

Haha, yeah, thanks Jim. I'm all about finding the deal, especially when it comes to quality used, or NIB stuff guys are off loading (I've done a few deals on BD.) Like most yak anglers, I'm a gearhead and enjoy the collecting and tinkering that comes with the hobby. I've just spent so long as a fresh water bass guy I'm still kinda lost on the salt gear.

Just saw this post. This helps a lot. Thanks!

Gear choice can get confusing.
What I bring often depends on the season and what I plan on fishing for.
But the out fits I always take are a surface iron rod. A heavy bait rod. And a lighter general purpose rod for sibiki or lighter baits.
Additional gear would be a heavy bait caster if I'm after calico bass. A lighter jig stick if smaller fish are on the surface. Or a heavy out fit for yo-yo.

Nothing wrong with bringing 6 rods and 4-6 plano boxes. But over the years Ive whittled down what I bring. Usually 4 rods, 1 plano box, 2 fluerocarbon leader spools, and a small water proof box with a few extra sibikis and maybe a dozen circle hooks.

If you're fairly new to yak fishing and want to fish LJ I'd recomend starting with a bait stick that will handle line up to 40 lb. There are lots of ways to target yellow tail but live bait fishing (IMO) is the most effective, easiest, and simplest technique. As you see how you'll be fishing and what you want to fish for you can add other out fits. Mike.

I forgot to mention before that if you plan to catch your own bait with Sabiki rigs, this rod is the best to have on a kayak or anywhere else for that matter.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AHI-RSB-800-...gAAOSwBahVNP6l

It stores the rig with six hooks inside (rod is hollow) when not used to keep the hooks from snagging to everything in its proximity.

Turner Booth at the Fred Hall Show usually has them at the reduced price, or with free rigs.

If you get one a low profile bait casting reel is the best for this rod. Even though other kind of reels can be used.

If you are just starting, get a 30lb rod&reel combo. A rod rated for 20-40lb mono and a reel that can carry up to 300 yards of 50-65lb braid. Use 20-40lb leader based on current conditions. Smile and have some fun.

Be carful with kayak selection as some have cosmetic blems which may have an effect on how you determine their value.

I get around the sabiki snagging issue by trimming the rig in half and adding a swivel afterwards. 6 mackerel on the end of your line can be a headache on a kayak.

Never ever leave your house without a surface iron rod and a good swimming jig tied on. I've learned that lesson a few times, even if its dead winter and cold as shit, always bring your surface iron rod!

Anyways, I like using small gear too because it's much lighter and less bulky. The daiwa 20 is an awesome little reel and holds more than enough braided line; I don't think I've ever had a fish dump more than half my spool on it. The reels are tanks and can take a beating and still keep chugging along.

LOL, dear Lord.....


I think this is the connection I'm missing. What's a Surface Iron Rod? A 30lbs setup? What's a swim jig setup, 40lbs? What do I throw with a 20-40lbs setup?

I think I just need to spend a lot of time researching and reading. My analytical brain is having a hard time connecting the dots.

Here is ALL of my set ups:
Sabiki rod with little old school penn 150

Shimano Curado 300e
Plastics/lite flyliner/squid strips
Calstar GFGR-800XL 8' 10-25
20/50# floro/braid

Avet SX 5.3 MC
Medium flyliner/surface irons
Calstar GFDH-800ML 8’ 15-40
30/50# floro/braid

Avet MXJ 6/4
Heavy Irons/surface Irons
Calstar GG 690J 9' 20-50
40/65# floro/braid

Avet MXL 6/4 Raptor
Dropper Loop/back up heavy flyliner
Calstar GFGR-700M 7’ 20-50
40/65# floro/braid

Avet JX 6/3 MC
Heavy flyliner/back up dropper loop
Calstar GFDH-800MH 8’ 20-50
40/65# floro/braid

I generally take the 3-5 sets ups. Sabiki if I am not fishing squid and need to make bait, the bass rod if fishing the kelp, the dropper set up always, the heavy flyliner always and the jig stick always.

I use these set ups on the charters and the yak. I did not start out fishing this quality of gear. After about 6-8 months I upgraded most of my gear and sold off the other gear. I took a 20 year break.

Sub-thread:

Sibiki rods and how worthless they are...

1. no flex easily lets mackerel shake off the hook, and has zero sensitivity.
2. no ability to switch them over to another setup once bait is made, like a backup flyline or iron
3. virtually impossible to re-thread on the water if sibiki breaks
4. internal line routing which is supposed to eliminate tangles, actually tangles the sibiki and it gets stuck inside

The only thing more ridiculous than sibiki rods are people who use an ultra light tackle for sibiki. I don't get it... do you want to spend 5 minutes landing 2 small greenbacks? 65# spec on sibiki WTF.

Actually, 65# spec on all rods. IMO, every rod you have onboard should be capable of landing the largest fish you are targeting.

Bait rod: TLD15 paired with uglystick tiger medium 7', 65# spec... $140 total and can easily hang with any fish you will encounter. Plus, you wont want to shoot yourself when you dump it in the surf.

Jig rod: saltist or sealine paired with a cheap 7' medium heavy rod and straight 40-50 lb mono.

The best kayak rig is one that you don't mind losing in the drink... unless i get sponsored by shimano then I can just dump Trinidad's for days and give zero fux haha

^If 2-stix yard sales at the launch, he's out $2-3k. If i lose all my shit its like 600$.

Wow, awesome post.

My neurotic self loves the fact you have (mostly) matching gear. I did that with my freshwater bass gear and always felt confident on the water.

For your iron presentations, where is your designation on whats "light" and "heavy" iron? All of the rigs I have now, I can only confidently throw lures around 6oz, and even that is pushing it....

Trying to learn more about Rod and Reel setups
 

I tend to fish for yellowtail with gear that most people would use calico bass fishing. But I like to stay on the lighter side of the spectrum for gear. I landed a 44lb mossback last march on a rod rated 10-20 with no problems. Also this past october landed 2-3 roosterfish over 35lbs with a lexa 300 and a different 10-20lb rod. Different strokes for different folks, but I like to feel the fishes..

Sibiki rods and how worthless they are...
With all due respect I disagree.
Having used both lengths for many years. Caught many bait and when done simply unattached the top section while leaving the rig inside and transported in a trunk.

1. no flex easily lets mackerel shake off the hook, and has zero sensitivity.
Flex and sensitivity are not needed to catch bait. They hook themselves.

2. no ability to switch them over to another setup once bait is made, like a backup flyline or iron
With attachment of a snap swivel to the main line, one can change rigs if needed in emergency. However, the beauty of the rod is to house the Sabiki rig easily, quickly and safely once done catching bait.

3. virtually impossible to re-thread on the water if sibiki breaks
A heavy test line, piano wire, flatten small split sinker and/or a large paper clip can help in re-threading the new line.

4. internal line routing which is supposed to eliminate tangles, actually tangles the sibiki and it gets stuck inside
There is a limit on how big of a hook to use. Size 6 or 8 are best for bait fishing. There is also a limit on the length, but removing one or two hooks does not affect the functionality of bait rigs.

When it comes to fishing gear there are many choices, because there are many personal preferences by anglers.

My recommendation is due to firsthand experience.

I have no affiliation with Ahi or sellers.

I used to carry around a dedicated bait rod, then realized how dumb that was because I have more important uses for my limited rod holders and decided against getting a sabiki rod. Now I just use any available rod that has a hook attached, and run the hook through the swivel on the sabiki rig. It could be a raw hook, a swim bait, a jig, doesn't matter. When done I just unhook the sabiki rig and stow it, then fish with my rod and I don't even need to retie anything.

True, true. All these points are valid, but i will counter the first point about sensitivity not mattering when fishing for bait. There are many times when bait is so scarce, you might only get one or two swipes at the greenbacks. The flex in the rod is crucial, because the big greeny will swim upward and if you don't have a bend in your rod, the mackerel gets slack line which it can easily shake the hook, and usually shake off any other baits on the line. Not a huge problem if you wind fast and fish straight mono.

I would be delighted to see a post of some who landed a yt on a biki rod. Its happened to me many times when for whatever reason 1 or 2 of my rigs get completely fusterclucked, and my sibiki rod quickly becomes a dropperloop or flyline which then catches a fish.

As you said, its totally a matter of preference. The "unshielded" sibiki can definitely be a pain in the butt at times.

You never lose the bait rig like that? Or no because there is always tension usinf heavier weights?

That's actually exactly how I like to fish for bass. The only time I'd ever be outgunned is if I hooked up in deep tulies and couldnt wind them out fast enough. I may be sending you a PM here tonight...

That's brilliant!

I use braid only on my Bait stick to have a better feel of the hit.

It has been my experience that once a mackerel is caught, you have two options. One to reel quickly and land one or two fish, or leave it and catch more.

However, hooking more mackerel increases the chances of tangles. I use about 3-4 OZ. sinker on my rig. It allows me to cast far from the piers.

Casting far is not needed from a kayak.

I have heard of using a heavier sinker like one pound can reduce the tangling, but I have never tried it.

The fouling of the Sabiki rig can happen with any rod anyhow.

I ordered my first 8' rod on line. When I received it, I felt that I would be laughed out of the piers. Thus, I sent it back and bought a 7' at the FHS.

Later I did buy a 8' at FHS and that rod allowed me to cast farther from the pier. I will use the 7' from my kayak.

The low profile casting reel allows a less sever angle from the reel to the hole in the rod where the line enters. Thus, for a better cast.

Disclaimer: I have worked the Fred Hall shows for Ahi/Promar for a couple years now


I started using the dedicated sabiki stck before my affiliation. I like being able to grab it and deploy a bait catcher within seconds if I see or meter bait. Especially important when bait is scarce. Yes, they are less sensitive and less flex. I use an old shimano Catala with 30# mono. Also, I like to use a heavy jig on the bottom because you never know what will be attracted to a couple baitfish in distress

To each their own. I have done the swivel-on-a-hook approach and it works. But you still need to roll up and stow the rig, then unroll, detangle and attach. Not usually a problem, but with cold hands that are not as nimble as they were 30 years ago I find that in the time it takes me to deploy in any other manner, I can already have a couple baits caught and in the tank with the dedicated stick.

Only one way you will determine if it is for you, and that is to try one out. I live in Fullerton, work in Huntington Beach, and you are welcome to borrow mine for one of your next outings if you want

You never lose the bait rig like that? Or no because there is always tension usinf heavier weights?

I don't even bring a sabiki rod. I just sprinkle some chum in the water and slap those little fools into the bait tank like a grizzly bear.

Yea, good question. I always use at least 4oz weights to avoid the dreaded mackerel ball of sabiki death, so the tension on the hook along with the barb works well to keep it in place. But, after many months I finally lost one when the weight hit the sand and the sabiki just came unhooked - glad I always de-barb them before use. I have since then always run the hook through both eyes of the swivel and have never lost another.

It's rare that I carry more than 3 rods on my fishing trips. If you play your cards right and pick a rod and reel that will do the job 99.999% of the time there really is no reason to have an arsenal of 20-30 setups.Don't get caught up in the hype with the 2-speed reels and the 8-rods that are great for casting, chances are that you'll rarely need or use either one, instead get something that fits you, your style of fishing and your kayak.

My 'go-to' rods are both 7' Teramar rods and until recently both rods were outfitted with Shimano Cardiff 400 reels, this is a bait casting reel but I was using them when I would fish for YT, Halibut and WSB. Now, one rod is outfitted with an Avet SX and the other with an SXJ.

As far as sabiki rods go, save yourself some money and use one of the smaller rods that you have sitting around or buy something inexpensive and use one of the reels that is sitting in your garage(conventional or spinning). My Sabiki rod is a 5 or 6 foot ugly stick rod with one of my older Cardiff reels attached to it. Place a rolling swivel hook snap between your sabiki and your main line and you'll be able to change from a sabiki line to a squid catcher in no time.

The first time I read his post I imagined a clasp like at the bottom of the sabiki rig for the weight, but put on top the swivel and then snapped to the eye of the hook. But after reading his post again, it does sound like he is just putting the hook through the eye of the swivel....interesting.

I guess my two bits to the whole thread would be to find reels that have a reputation for being durable. And clean them properly after every trip. Being on the kayak so close to the water, and increased chances of reels taking a dip real fast every now and then/water splashing on them...everything just gets beat up more by the salt.

Used rods are a great cheap option, and as its already been said, you can find smoking deals if you just creep the forums and have the cash ready and jump on an opportunity.

My budget has been pretty limited so I have gone the route of used reels. I would highly recommend buying your reels new. The used reels I have bought have been more of a headache than anything. It's just nicer to have confidence in your reels when they are brand new and you know they will work properly. Again, as already stated you don't have to get crazy. There are some great durable reels out there for fair prices that cover all our kayak needs.

I fish beach breaks up here. Everything it strapped at launch and landings horizontal. I have leashes on all my rods. I have watched dozens of yardsales. I have a very solid system and brave 3-5' surf. Its not fun, and I am not trying to be macho. I have not been rolled yet. That time will come. The thread was asking about your set ups. I was sharing mine. I am very particular, and a total gear head in all my sports. I spend a ton of time and money on gear. Avets are extremely easy to work on and the best value point I have found for my needs. If you want down and dirty the Ugly Sticks and TLD's are great and will do all the same things.

Ya I'm not knocking you for using good gear... and there's guys who spend waaay more on kayak setups. You know what you're doing, and how how to avoid "accidents" in the surf zone or on the water. Avets and Calstars are premium equipment... and it goes without saying that they aren't a great entry level for a guy who is new to ocean kayaking. :cheers1:

I put in a lot of days on charters as well and needed gear that would cross over. Its a bit over the top for the yak, but right for the charters. I had the $200 Penn combos. They worked. When business is good, I get good gear. The last 2 years I was able to spend what I wanted. So I did. My dad is a surfboard builder and flyfishing guide...so I grew up in the water and with good gear. He ruined me.

Fish the Ugly and TLD for a year, and if your still going out, maybe bump up gear.

Or you could just win all your Avets, like Jorge :the_finger:

haha sorry my intention was to hate on sibiki rods, not your dialed in quiver 2-stix! Your gear is tight.

Well said Josh. You for the Usually regret buying g good gear Mike.

You asked about light vs heavy irons.
So Cal style heavy iron fishing is also called yoyo iron. They're usually made of brass and wieght 4-10 oz. You drop the iron down on meter marks. Usually you let the jig hit the bottom then wind it up as fast as you can. Pretty simple. You can cast them and fish them other ways too. Since little or no casting is needed a heavy action 6-7' rod is the way to go.

Surface iron is much different. The irons are made of aluminum and wiegh 2-5 oz. These irons are used when fish are feeding on or near the surface. When fish or working birds are seen you cast the light irons in to the area. Often long casts are need so the rods are usually 8-10' long. From a yak you can use shorter rods and even spinning reels to make the long casts. Mike

Awesome explanation, thanks Mike!!

Why not donate your Sabiki rod to the OP?

Ok, now that I've learned a bit more about salt setups, I wonder if I just need to offload some of my random gear and just start over. Here is what I have now....

RODS:
Okuma Helios w/ micro guides 7'MH - Super light rod that I've been using to throw 110 sized jerkbaits in the bays. I like he rod but its pretty limited in its application. Although I did catch my first Halibut in MDR with this stick!<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Okuma EVX-A 7'5" H - Not really sure it has a home in my lineup anymore but it's a decent smaller swimbait rig.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Daiwa DX Swimbait 8' XH - Thinking maybe an inshore bass stick?

Okuma Makaira 8' ML<O:p</O:p
Daiwa Proetus 8' MHF<O:p</O:p
These two rods are REALLLLY close together in capability. When testing the bend in the rods and doing a little "lawn fishing", they feel really close in power and weight tolerance. The Daiwa maybe has another 2oz of capability over the Okuma, with the Okuma having more sensitivity. They feel too close to keep both.

<O:p</O:pREELS:<O:p</O:p
Quantum Smoke Inshore - Super light weight and pairs well with the Helios. Makes that MH setup feel a lot lighter than it really is. Again, its pretty limited in its application though.
<O:p</O:p
Okuma Komodo 364 w/power handle (older w/ red accents) - Decent reel but nothing landed with it yet. I'd be willing to seek out another as they seem to have a decent reputation for inshore and some offshore applications.

Daiwa Saltist LW20 w/level wind - Seems like a great reel. Solid in hand with little play in the mechanics. Feels too heavy for the Proteus and the Makaira. I think I either need to trade this out, or find a dedicated jig stick for it.

So....thoughts, suggestions, criticism? Much appreciated as always!

- Kenny