So What Happens Next? - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

dsafety · 11-11-2009, 08:05 AM

As Paul said, we fought the good fight and should be thankful that we were at least able to modify the pre-determined outcome a little. My question is what happens next?

Is the "Option 2" map the final word? Will someone tweak this thing a bit, (it seemed to me that there was some interest among the BRTF in leaving the LJ Reserve the way it is and not closing much north of the pier).

Since the DFG has to enforce this, do they have to approve the deal? What about the legislature? Will they stick their dirty little hands into the pot?

Then there is the issue of enforcement. The head of the DFG Warden's association said flat out at yesterday's meeting that these rules would not be enforced by the Game Wardens due to lack of resources. If these new rules are not enforced, do they mean anything?

Finally there is the cost. I have heard numbers such as $17 million to put this stuff into effect. The Governator said yesterday the the State will have a $7 Billion deficit next year and the future looks like more of the same. Where will the money come from?

Is there a chance that some wise and reasonable people in our government, (there must be a few of them), will just say NO the all of this madness, at least until there is funding to make it feasible?

Anyone have thoughts on this issue?

tylerdurden · 11-11-2009, 08:36 AM

well, I wrote a response and it didn't post for some reason.

New info will be posted on the board when people figure out what to do next.

Keep your eye on December 9-10. DFG commission meets to rubber stamp yesterdays tragedy of a map. DFG commission can still make changes.

There is a slim chance they could take one of the other maps.

Sherm · 11-11-2009, 10:05 AM

Are the public allowed to show at the DFG meetings?

tylerdurden · 11-11-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherm

Are the public allowed to show at the DFG meetings?

Yes. I don't know much more than that. We may need to be there to continue the fight.

At this point I don't know if there will be public input of any kind. These DFG meetings are also really important because they will be takling about some possible reg changes I heard.

Someone who knows more should fill in any details. I think everyone is still recovering from the beating yesterday and trying to figure out what to do next.

Sherm · 11-11-2009, 10:31 AM

Is there a map to show what came down yesterday?

PAL · 11-11-2009, 10:53 AM

The Fish and Game Commission is a long process. Please bear with us while we sort through the wreckage. For now, go fish, enjoy life, give yourself a bit of a breather.

We'll huddle up next week. But like Tyler said, no pros here. We're all volunteers in a grassroots effort. Anyone who has taken the time to educate himself, who has paid his dues and really knows the MLPA score, is welcome to step up and show the way.

Paul

Fiskadoro · 11-11-2009, 11:23 AM

Believe it or not it's not over yet and I believe we can still make a difference.

It's my understanding that the BRTF now has to send all four proposals: A, B, C, and the BRTF's IPA (Integrated Preferred Alternative) on to the Fish and Game Commission and that the Fish and Game Commission will make the final decision as to what get's made into law.

My suggestion to all is to now write letters to the commissioners on the Fish and Game Commission and try to get them to make some alterations.

If I remember correctly in the Central California process they tried to stall the process and did got get any changes, and the Fish and Game Commission just went with the IPA.

In the North Central Coast process fisherman did get the Fish and Game Commission to redraw the maps. They accepted most of the IPA but they did make some changes that were beneficial to fisherman, due to direct input from the fishing community. What I'm saying is they changed the shape of some of the reserves in the preferred alternative plan submitted by the BRTF for the North Central Coast, so there's precedence for them to do so. It can be done, it's happened before, it's definitely worth a shot.

Maybe just maybe we can still get the Fish and Game commission to move the eastern boundary of the Dume Reserve away from BKR and back to Point Dume.

That at least is what I'm going to be working on now. It might not make a bit a difference but it's definitely worth a shot in my opinion.

Jim

T Bone · 11-11-2009, 11:30 AM

I second the 1 per day pelagics only proposal...

newguy01 · 11-11-2009, 11:49 AM

so as of now we still can fish la jolla as it was before till they said some am i correct? just asking a question.

driftwood · 11-11-2009, 12:22 PM

Fish and Game comission is expected to make its final determination next summer or fall or as soon as next month. So yes, you can fish La Jolla for now.

Ocean-Angler · 11-11-2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Day

My suggestion to all is to now write letters to the commissioners on the Fish and Game Commission and try to get them to make some alterations.

If I remember correctly in the Central California process they tried to stall the process and did got get any changes, and the Fish and Game Commission just went with the IPA.

In the North Central Coast process fisherman did get the Fish and Game Commission to redraw the maps. They accepted most of the IPA but they did make some changes that were beneficial to fisherman, due to direct input from the fishing community. What I'm saying is they changed the shape of some of the reserves in the preferred alternative plan submitted by the BRTF for the North Central Coast, so there's precedence for them to do so. It can be done, it's happened before, it's definitely worth a shot.

Jim

Good point
I lived on the central coast for about 15 years.
I knew most of the known guys in the "fishing community" and was part of the fishing community of lesser known indivudals.
Ill tell you this,
the county of San Luis Obispo, is unlike most counties. its VERY Liberal, and has tons of environmentalists. the fisherman are VERY few
now take into consideration the community you guys got here, and places like La Jolla
if we faught for this, and sent letter to DFG, we should have a VERY good chance on influencing them to maybe go with option 4

( hopefully)

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy01

so as of now we still can fish la jolla as it was before till they said some am i correct? just asking a question.

I think itll take about 2 years before it would actually go into law ..? am i wrong?

mwm · 11-11-2009, 01:28 PM

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/public/information/bios.asp

Link to Fish and Game Commissioner Bios

dsafety · 11-11-2009, 05:30 PM

Does anyone know how to reach the guy who said he was head of the Game Warden's Association at yesterday's meeting? He said that his members would not be enforcing any of the new MLPA regs due to lack of resources and danger to the officer's who might be asked to provide this enforcement.

He might be an interesting guy to talk to, especially if he is on our side.

Just a thought.

Bob

PAL · 11-11-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Does anyone know how to reach the guy who said he was head of the Game Warden's Association at yesterday's meeting? He said that his members would not be enforcing any of the new MLPA regs due to lack of resources and danger to the officer's who might be asked to provide this enforcement.

He might be an interesting guy to talk to, especially if he is on our side.

LOL. That guy also represents the Partnership for Sustainable Oceans, of which the KFACA is a part. He's a lobbyist, and I am sure the Fish and Game Commission will be seeing a lot of him. Enough said.

dsafety · 11-11-2009, 05:56 PM

So Paul,

Are you saying that that guy lied about being part of the DFG Warden's Association? If that is the case, I think that you need to get a new lobbiest. There has already been to much lying, half truths and back room deals during this process. I do not support the concept of "the end justifies the means" if we check truthfullness at the door. We should be better than that.

Did I misunderstand you?

Bob

PAL · 11-11-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Are you saying that that guy lied about being part of the DFG Warden's Association? If that is the case, I think that you need to get a new lobbiest. There has already been to much lying, half truths and back room deals during this process. I do not support the concept of "the end justifies the means" if we check truthfullness at the door. We should be better than that.

Did I misunderstand you?

You most definitely did. Osborn is not the head of the Warden's Association, he represents them as their lobbyist. They employ him. So does the PSO. Like I said, the Commission will see a lot of George.

Willy · 11-12-2009, 08:07 AM

While leaving the water last night after hoopin', I was checked by 2 DFG.
After proving my legitimacy, I asked them how they feel about the MLPA process.
They smirked and laughed.
Then said there is no way in hell they can come close to enforcing the changes.
The guy put it in a good perspective: they can't provide the manpower to enforce what is in place now, with no or few closure areas.
They're checking for regulation violations on game.

Now imagine twenty plus little marked off regions, miles apart from each other, and trying to enforce those on top of the regs already in place, with the same amount of people.
It's impossible.
So I bluntly asked "you're saying you won't enforce the MPA's?"
The response was "we'll see."
My $.02
Willy

DryFly · 11-12-2009, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAL

You most definitely did. Osborn is not the head of the Warden's Association, he represents them as their lobbyist. They employ him. So does the PSO. Like I said, the Commission will see a lot of George.

And George Osborn is perhaps the most loved lobbyist by the F&G Commission (sic). The sad reality is that the Commission has repeatedly caught him lying and he has zero credibility with most of them. The only one who seems to listen to him is Dan Richards who coincidently hails from the same district as George's former employer, Senator Dutton. IMO this guy has caused more damage to the fishing MLPA effort than any person around.

CurtyL · 11-13-2009, 11:28 PM

I will fish until I'm told not to, by a man in a boat with a badge. Then I will fish some more. I will adapt and overcome. I will not be defeated by psuedo conservationists. When/where I'm told not to, I will evaluate all angles and develop a new plan, and I just might do the same thing. I love fishing so much I'm willing to at least test the boundries out. I'll fish at night if need be. I'd rather get a slap on the wrist or a fine. Are they gonna jail me for that? I'm in a kayak for christ sakes - you want to punish that? I'm a lawyer, I'll take you on for the fun of it, out of my own pocket. And maybe, just maybe, for the precedent. I know we all have our panties in a bunch now, but when the rubber hits the road, where will you be? Are you willing to say fuck it?

Face it, we lost. Re-tool, re-fit and grab a hold of your personal strategy and get ready to live it. Attending meetings ain't shit now - all that's left is our way.

Sorry Commader Zeelagee if I don't speak for you.

Tman · 11-14-2009, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CurtyL

I will fish until I'm told not to, by a man in a boat with a badge. Then I will fish some more. I will adapt and overcome. I will not be defeated by psuedo conservationists.
Sorry Commader Zeelagee if I don't speak for you.

Dayum...

If you speak of comrad_zeelaagee, might want to review his earlier posts...he was at an MLPA meeting, and let it fly...then asked me if he looked like a lunatic after he kept on speaking when they shut off the mic...I told him, well, at least you were a nicely dressed lunatic...

I agree with your sentiments, but I also agree that we need a locked, invite only forum...not baggin' on ya, but we need to keep the rants to a minimum.

Trust me, after having to maintain composure while the Fishcatcher gets chastised on a couple of occasions, first at a Surfwhiner meeting, then by Ken Wuseman, I'd love to let it fly...with valid reasons.

If you want to catch the fox, you have to outsmart him.

11-11-2009, 08:05 AM	#1
dsafety Olivenhain Bob Join Date: May 2008 Location: Olivenhain, CA Posts: 1,121	So What Happens Next? As Paul said, we fought the good fight and should be thankful that we were at least able to modify the pre-determined outcome a little. My question is what happens next? Is the "Option 2" map the final word? Will someone tweak this thing a bit, (it seemed to me that there was some interest among the BRTF in leaving the LJ Reserve the way it is and not closing much north of the pier). Since the DFG has to enforce this, do they have to approve the deal? What about the legislature? Will they stick their dirty little hands into the pot? Then there is the issue of enforcement. The head of the DFG Warden's association said flat out at yesterday's meeting that these rules would not be enforced by the Game Wardens due to lack of resources. If these new rules are not enforced, do they mean anything? Finally there is the cost. I have heard numbers such as $17 million to put this stuff into effect. The Governator said yesterday the the State will have a $7 Billion deficit next year and the future looks like more of the same. Where will the money come from? Is there a chance that some wise and reasonable people in our government, (there must be a few of them), will just say NO the all of this madness, at least until there is funding to make it feasible? Anyone have thoughts on this issue?

11-11-2009, 08:36 AM	#2
tylerdurden Bad Clone Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 874	well, I wrote a response and it didn't post for some reason. New info will be posted on the board when people figure out what to do next. Keep your eye on December 9-10. DFG commission meets to rubber stamp yesterdays tragedy of a map. DFG commission can still make changes. There is a slim chance they could take one of the other maps. __________________ MLPA, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem Let the Fish and Game Commission know what you think about the proposed maps. Be ready for December 9th and 10th.

11-11-2009, 11:23 AM	#7
Fiskadoro ....... Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,509	Believe it or not it's not over yet and I believe we can still make a difference. It's my understanding that the BRTF now has to send all four proposals: A, B, C, and the BRTF's IPA (Integrated Preferred Alternative) on to the Fish and Game Commission and that the Fish and Game Commission will make the final decision as to what get's made into law. My suggestion to all is to now write letters to the commissioners on the Fish and Game Commission and try to get them to make some alterations. If I remember correctly in the Central California process they tried to stall the process and did got get any changes, and the Fish and Game Commission just went with the IPA. In the North Central Coast process fisherman did get the Fish and Game Commission to redraw the maps. They accepted most of the IPA but they did make some changes that were beneficial to fisherman, due to direct input from the fishing community. What I'm saying is they changed the shape of some of the reserves in the preferred alternative plan submitted by the BRTF for the North Central Coast, so there's precedence for them to do so. It can be done, it's happened before, it's definitely worth a shot. Maybe just maybe we can still get the Fish and Game commission to move the eastern boundary of the Dume Reserve away from BKR and back to Point Dume. That at least is what I'm going to be working on now. It might not make a bit a difference but it's definitely worth a shot in my opinion. Jim Last edited by Fiskadoro; 11-11-2009 at 11:52 AM.

11-11-2009, 11:30 AM	#8
T Bone Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Redlands CA Posts: 871	I second the 1 per day pelagics only proposal... __________________ Barachit Baralah,Elohim-In the beginning,God-Genesis 1:1 "Who among you,if your son asked for a fish would give them a serpent " Jesus Matt. 7:10

11-11-2009, 12:22 PM	#10
driftwood Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SAN DIEGO Posts: 1,086	Fish and Game comission is expected to make its final determination next summer or fall or as soon as next month. So yes, you can fish La Jolla for now. Last edited by driftwood; 11-11-2009 at 12:58 PM.

11-11-2009, 10:05 AM	#3
Sherm Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Diego Posts: 490	Are the public allowed to show at the DFG meetings?

11-11-2009, 10:31 AM	#5
Sherm Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Diego Posts: 490	Is there a map to show what came down yesterday?

11-11-2009, 10:53 AM	#6
PAL Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 754	The Fish and Game Commission is a long process. Please bear with us while we sort through the wreckage. For now, go fish, enjoy life, give yourself a bit of a breather. We'll huddle up next week. But like Tyler said, no pros here. We're all volunteers in a grassroots effort. Anyone who has taken the time to educate himself, who has paid his dues and really knows the MLPA score, is welcome to step up and show the way. Paul

11-11-2009, 11:49 AM	#9
newguy01 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: S.D. Posts: 133	so as of now we still can fish la jolla as it was before till they said some am i correct? just asking a question.

11-11-2009, 01:28 PM	#12
mwm Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 33	http://www.fgc.ca.gov/public/information/bios.asp Link to Fish and Game Commissioner Bios

11-11-2009, 05:30 PM	#13
dsafety Olivenhain Bob Join Date: May 2008 Location: Olivenhain, CA Posts: 1,121	Does anyone know how to reach the guy who said he was head of the Game Warden's Association at yesterday's meeting? He said that his members would not be enforcing any of the new MLPA regs due to lack of resources and danger to the officer's who might be asked to provide this enforcement. He might be an interesting guy to talk to, especially if he is on our side. Just a thought. Bob

11-11-2009, 05:56 PM	#15
dsafety Olivenhain Bob Join Date: May 2008 Location: Olivenhain, CA Posts: 1,121	So Paul, Are you saying that that guy lied about being part of the DFG Warden's Association? If that is the case, I think that you need to get a new lobbiest. There has already been to much lying, half truths and back room deals during this process. I do not support the concept of "the end justifies the means" if we check truthfullness at the door. We should be better than that. Did I misunderstand you? Bob

11-12-2009, 08:07 AM	#17
Willy Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: La Jolla Posts: 189	While leaving the water last night after hoopin', I was checked by 2 DFG. After proving my legitimacy, I asked them how they feel about the MLPA process. They smirked and laughed. Then said there is no way in hell they can come close to enforcing the changes. The guy put it in a good perspective: they can't provide the manpower to enforce what is in place now, with no or few closure areas. They're checking for regulation violations on game. Now imagine twenty plus little marked off regions, miles apart from each other, and trying to enforce those on top of the regs already in place, with the same amount of people. It's impossible. So I bluntly asked "you're saying you won't enforce the MPA's?" The response was "we'll see." My $.02 Willy

11-13-2009, 11:28 PM	#19
CurtyL Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: wherever the college girlz r Posts: 127	I will fish until I'm told not to, by a man in a boat with a badge. Then I will fish some more. I will adapt and overcome. I will not be defeated by psuedo conservationists. When/where I'm told not to, I will evaluate all angles and develop a new plan, and I just might do the same thing. I love fishing so much I'm willing to at least test the boundries out. I'll fish at night if need be. I'd rather get a slap on the wrist or a fine. Are they gonna jail me for that? I'm in a kayak for christ sakes - you want to punish that? I'm a lawyer, I'll take you on for the fun of it, out of my own pocket. And maybe, just maybe, for the precedent. I know we all have our panties in a bunch now, but when the rubber hits the road, where will you be? Are you willing to say fuck it? Face it, we lost. Re-tool, re-fit and grab a hold of your personal strategy and get ready to live it. Attending meetings ain't shit now - all that's left is our way. Sorry Commader Zeelagee if I don't speak for you.