THE LEADER BOARD

[Aaron&Julie]

you (Andy) said you thought it should be allowed if Corey agreed,
he posted that he agreed,
NO ONE RAISED ANY OBJECTIONS AT THE TIME (including A&J),

That's because we were unaware that rule change discussions were taking place. Not everyone who entered this contest views every topic discussed or posted. We don't. We initially only posted in the reports section and WCW monthly pending/final submission. If a rule was going to change AFTER the contest began, ALL participants should have been made aware (via PM or other means) of a possible change, allowing for feedback, then. Our position would have been the same then as it is now. You don't change rules once the contest is started. A fine example is the Steve Moyer Tournament. Jim Sammons removed the "bass division" for lack of support. He gave all participants an opportunity to back out and get their money back, before the tournament began. He didn't make the announcement after people had already hit the water.

A decision that directly benefits 2,3,& 4 at the expense of 1, 5, and an upwardly mobile 9.

It seems like there is only one person pushing this issue and one other who is mostly in support of it (to change the rule). Being 2 out the only 3 people to have caught an exotic, they would be the only ones currently who benefit by changing the original rule, as it stood in the beginning, and posted for the last 8 months. This would be at the expense of 2, 3 and 4.

THE MULLIGAN: Each angler will be allowed a ONE TIME opportunity for the year to submit 2 fish of the same species in the same month. For example, an angler may submit ONE of species A, ONE of species B, and TWO of species C one time over the course of the year.

EXOTICS: Each angler will also be given the opportunity to submit one of the following species ONE TIME PER YEAR for 3 points per pound in addition to the regular monthly submissions: albacore, bluefin tuna, yellowfin tuna, bigeye tuna (yeah right), dorado, and ocean-caught salmon (any species).

How can you interpret it any other way? One time means one time.
Neither rule states multiple submissions or upgrades are allowed.
Next year would be a great time to amend this, not in the middle of the current contest.

[madscientist]

You miss the point. Everyone I know was operating under the assumption that the rules had been amended. The comment I made to Adi that got this whole shitstorm started clearly shows that I was under the impression the rules had been clarified back in Jan as we understood it. Are you honestly saying you have never read the rules thread since Jan 10th? Come on.

The rules were ambigious. It was clear that only one exotic would be scored per year. It was not clear exactly how the submission process would work. That's why I asked my original questions, to avoid this type of confusion. The exact same logic was put in place to allow monthly upgrade submissions. The monthly upgrade was NOT in the original rules, but in the thread. If you oppose the one change you must oppose the other, and everyone's upgrade submissions should be disqualified. Don't want to be dishonest.

The bigger point is that this should be about fishing. Neither Adi nor I are pushing the rules change NOW. We are asking that the reasonable view prevail and that we not be punished or constrained because we believed the moderators in the thread. To argue the opposite is to try and prevent someone else from fishing, a position I find less defensible and contrary to the spirit of the site and the contest. No one is harmed under the amended rules. You are just as able to go catch a tuna, then catch a bigger one, as anyone else. It's all about the fish!

It should be pointed out that this is a hypothetical at this point. It is sad that such an issue has to be made out of such a thing. The greatest aspect of last year's WCW was the camarderie and sense of shared accomplishment. Andy, Arne, and I all shared bait and info in the last weeks, despite being locked in a very tight race. I think we all wanted to win, but we wanted to win based on our own actions, not due to other's failings, and certainly not due to a technicality. Otherwise, it's just a silly contest with a pretty tiny payout.

[lamb]

When I said we should use this thread to give each other crap, I really didn’t mean this BS. :roll:

A&J, you keep looking at things from your own perspective. The fact you stated that you haven’t read Andy’s and Corey’s response on Brad’s very specific clarification question doesn’t help the fact that some of us, like Adi, did read it. Can you not consider that? It would be helpful if you would fairly judge the impact of now suddenly ignoring what was clearly said in Rules and Regulations thread (is there more appropriate place?!?). People that posted their exotic under impression that it can upgraded later on would be cut short in a way. You seem to be primarily worried about keeping your comfort zone, you stated that. I would say the example with Jim Sammons changing the bass rules is quite contradictory – dropping was announced on the thread of the web, just like the clarification on exotics was. I’m sure any bass fishermen who read the original rules and didn’t read the update later on would argue that.

I’m sure we could beat this to death but there’s no point…

This is rather messy situation; I just hate to see it. We all know very well WCW is not perfect when it comes to having all legal wording in rules and regulations. The last two years, this silly game has been evolving based on input that all of us have been providing. Imperfect as it is, there is still written trail and a timeline on clarification of exotics submissions. We don’t need lawyers to interpret it – realistic judgment of any WCW player without consideration of how that would impact their own standing on the list ought to be sufficient.

We have a history of WCW moderators/members sailing smoothly. That’s mostly because we’ve managed to keep this “honest objective brotherhood/sisterhood” vibe. There’s many other things that are not quite perfect, yet we never had problems with as we all keep that fair and objective spirit. The more I see how stubbornly and passionately A&J hold their ground, more I want to see the tape shot of their released 22+” bay halibut from the tail to the jaw, not the head only. :twisted: I’m not saying anything, I’m just bringing this up as another example of "legal-admin" imperfection that moderators never enforced, and none of us ever had a problem with. No one ever raised the stink as we trust each other. We ought to be able to trust the moderators when they say something. Arguments like this are hurting that spirit. :cry:

No matter what Justice’s Wyrick stand on this ends up being, some people will be unhappy. That part sucks the most.

I’m not worried about anyone’s placement on the leader list, including my own. I am very worried about WCW keeping its integrity. We have too little people signing up as it is (I still didn’t figure that one out). The last thing we need is to loose someone because of their own interpretation of this “legal-admin” crap. This is silly fishing game and it ought to be fun, c’mon.

WCW Moderators – maybe we should throw a quick Poll and ask all people that play WCW 06 what’s their objective take on this. Ask everyone to consider the history and cast the vote - let the majority decide what’s the fair interpretation of exotics upgrade? A couple of people who have direct or vested interest arguing is quite nonsense. This is like friken Bosnia – Serbs, Croats and Bosnians having conflicting interpretations of the same story.

If A&J will accept that and if it’ll help settle this, I have no problem with NOT upgrading my exotic even if the final word ends up being that you can upgrade, and I happen to catch one by the end of the year.

Just trying to help here…

[Iceman]

Just curious, but if the three that have submitted were given the opportunity to withdraw their wildcard,(NOW) would that put us all in the same arena?

I honestly think the arguments for both sides are valid.

Sorry we created this lil mess.

[madscientist]

Originally Posted by Iceman

Just curious, but if the three that have submitted were given the opportunity to withdraw their wildcard,(NOW) would that put us all in the same arena?

I honestly think the arguments for both sides are valid.

Sorry we created this lil mess.

Ask me after San Carlos.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

...but you still won't get an answer. It's beside the point. Make a call, piss off whomever, and let's get this BS over with. I have learned much about integrity, and lack thereof, and frankly no longer care either way. We know what's what, and who's who, and silly rules change none of it. I'm going to keep fishing with my NY attitude (the one that shares numbers and bug and rockfish spots with people I think are decent) because that's what I like to do, and anyone who let's "winning" become the basis of their fun is, in my opinion, missing the real point.

[lamb]

Originally Posted by Iceman

Just curious, but if the three that have submitted were given the opportunity to withdraw their wildcard,(NOW) would that put us all in the same arena?

What kind of fish is "withdraw your wildcard" and is it good to eat?

[Aaron&Julie]

We are very sorry for our part in beating this subject to death. There are two sides, we stated ours based on the Moderator's response on September 8th...

or a 50lb tuna might just get you up in the money!

I think Adi will be regretting using his (1 time) wildcard after San Carlos in a few weeks

...and then Brad's response:

I thought we could upgrade.

Now our integrity has come into question. We did read the thread about exotic upgrades, sometime in March or April. Our interpretation after looking at the rules was that it never was officially changed. Iceman's response on Sept 8th...

If I remember correctly, after further discussion Corey and I decided to leave the mulligan and wildcard as one time and not upgradeable.

...told us that we weren't the only ones confused on this subject.
Even later the same day, it was unresolved, as noted by the Moderator's response to Brad:

asked for a clarification,
you (Andy) said you thought it should be allowed if Corey agreed,
he posted that he agreed,
NO ONE RAISED ANY OBJECTIONS AT THE TIME (including A&J),

I may have made a mistake. I honestly don't remember for certain. I had it in my head that the mulligan and wildcard were the same situation. Let me talk to Corey and see what his take on this is.

All of our posts after that were responses. We didn't make this personal or want to initiate any bad feelings. We are not "missing any point" and do see the other side of this discussion, not just our own perspective. I guess we are as "pigheaded" as anybody (see this post) when it comes to dropping the subject.
We don't appreciate slanderous innuendos.
Also, since it seems to be the norm, our taped shots usually show only the tail of the fish. In the future, we will to the best of our ability, should a live halibut flopping on our deck allow, try and take full body shots of our C&R'd fish.
We are hoping the Moderator makes the announcement that it is OKAY to upgrade your exotic, or NOT, to end this subject. Right now, we don't give a flying hoot, one way or the other, and allowing an exotic upgrade is not going to bother us.

Again, our apologies for our contribution on taking the fun out of this yearlong tournament. We will continue to be just as generous as we've always been with our own techniqes, experiences and locales. We've made it a point to try and be helpful to anybody who asks us through a PM, open board, or on the beach after fishing, about what works for us.

[madscientist]

Corey, Andy, please....end this!

[lamb]

Ha, you thought Justice Wyrick has spoken?!? :lol:

I think we pissed corndawg off…

And now he won’t even talk to us. :lol:

[Corey]

OK, sorry to let this go on for so long. First I would like to apologize for our failure to clarify all of this at the beginning of the year when this conversation first began.
Our original intent with the wild card submission was to make the competing angler choose whether or not to make a final, non-upgradeable submission during the month of the catch. After our much discussed statements on this thread, we discussed this matter further and decided that we would prefer to stick with our original intent and not allow upgrades to the wild card. However, we failed to publicly state this decision, and therefore caused several anglers to submit wild card fish under the premise that these submissions would not be final and could be upgraded at a later date. Therefore, I feel that the only fair way to resolve this issue is to allow the wild card submission to be upgraded. This gives each angler the same opportunity, and does not take anything away from any angler on the board.
Currently, to my knowledge, no anglers have a wild card fish with which to upgrade , so this decision may well end the year as a moot point. And as I stated previously this decision gives every angler in the contest the same opportunity to catch an exotic, post the wild card submission, catch a bigger exotic, then upgrade the submission.
Again, I apologize for our oversight and I hope everyone still wants to play our silly little game.

have fun,

corey

[Iceman]

The Lord and Master Corn has spoken. We did not find this an easy one to resolve. The final decision is the one we believe is the one that is true to the spirit of WCW. 8) as there have been other deviations of the original written rules. Nothing is ever written in stone among friends.

[Holy Mackerel]

Originally Posted by Corey

I hope everyone still wants to play our silly little game.

have fun,

corey

I want T-shirts next year, or I am not playing!! :P

Welcome back to San Diego Corey! 8)

Chris

PS: Shirts with Andy's design would be radical!

[Aaron&Julie]

Whew! Glad that's over with .
Play on.

[lamb]

...true to the spirit of WCW. 8)

STRENGHT AND HONOR!!!

This has always been “catch me if you can” sorta game.

Stand up and say… Andy, I think we both need to catch 50# pelagic.
And I hear there is this...
Damn, is Brad on that trip too? :lol:

Hey Dave Ken (can I buy u a scale please) Dan Chris Ryan Dave Dave Tyler Mike Matt…

Hey MATT!!!

Is the game on or what? :lol:

[Iceman]

Adi, this was caught on Monday



If you are really into catching Dorado,then ride, fly or any means possible get down to San Carlos. Borrow your buddy boat or beg someone to take you fishing. Even if you need to charter a boat, Do it! and do it now.
Because of Hurricane John, there is a five square mile of trees and cactuses all over this area, and under these structures are the biggest dorado that have been seen in the sea of cortez. There are many large bulls that weigh over 40# and some so big that you just wonder if the water and sun are playing tricks with your eyes.
Its imperative that you keep both eyes peeled for logs both on the surface and sunken below the surface so that you dont become stranded out there . I highly reccomend that you charter a boat and let them worry about their props. you will have to travel about 30 to 35 nm on a 225-240 last seen forrest. good luck and good fishing. tod


And this was posted yesterday:

Great news! I got a report from a friend who got into some 40-50# fish out there! Glad I will be there before "Lane"!

Tight lines, Smokin' drags, and Groanin' rods!!!!

[FISHIONADO]

Originally Posted by lamb

Hey Dave Ken (can I buy u a scale please) Dan Chris Ryan Dave Dave Tyler Mike Matt…

Hey MATT!!!

Is the game on or what? :lol:

Only 4 months remaining, I'm going to try really hard to break into the top 10. If you see me on the water offering you a beer I'm really just trying to slow you down. :lol: Good luck everyone!

[madscientist]

WOW, that's some big dodo's. Guess I'll have to take the heavy gear. And re-tie all my leaders on the water in case they happen to get "nicked" :P .
Man o man, would a paddy stacked with those things be fun. But will spectra slice through a cactus or a log? :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol:

[lamb]

Brad just sucks... :lol:

Great suspense for the rest of the gang in the top!

Originally Posted by Iceman

November belongs to the Scorpio.

I know Masta Andy... :lol:

I'm a Scorpio myself... :twisted:

GAME ON!!!

[tylerdurden]

Congrats Adi! You earned more points this month than I have all year :shock: . Look out this month, some of us still have a mulligan to play and may take the trip to use it. Now if only I could get the hali's figured out like John.

oh yeah, I should have entered Patricks big wsb as mine since no one can tell us apart anyways :roll:.

[madscientist]

Originally Posted by lamb

Brad just sucks... :lol:

Great suspense for the rest of the gang in the top!


GAME ON!!!

Hey, that's not a nice thing to say about your bad lamb teammate.

Is 210 points enough to rest on? I think not, what with you clowns down there. 8) Remember Adi, you need to pre-fish the Tday tourney (from your boat).

I predict some more shake ups in the top 10. That devout baitfish guy still has his mulligan, and the big 'buts seem to be chewing. The big YT should be just about ready to show as well. Good luck and good fishing to all down the home stretch.