Kayakfishermen/spearos/fishermen are intimidating and violent--The new enviro tactic - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

zenspearo · 06-08-2009, 01:30 PM

Guys/gals,

I've been talking to a few people and we notice a particular pattern emerging recently and in a quite coordinated manner.

Taking a page out of the 60's playbook against the civil rights movement, there is now a coordinated effort on the anti-fishing side to paint spearos, fishermen, and anyone who shows up at MLPA meeting to testify as "intimidation."

The lynching attempt is on.

This is a well-proven strategy for those in power.

By painting those of us who exercise our constitutional right to peacefully assemble and speak out and redress grievances as "violent" or "intimidation", they hope to motivate their sympathetic authority to take action to repress.

We see this latest coordinated effort increasing in tempo and volume at the June 4, 2009 BRTF meeting and subsequently online. Person after person, RSG members and non-RSG members from the enviro side, come up to the BRTF and allege generalized "intimidation" by fishermen and then spread the same message online. This is despite the fact that out of over 200 spearo/kayakfishermen/fishermen showing up at the meeting, not a single incident can be cited.

ZERO EVIDENCE. For that, we should be proud.

You are now the new Selma marchers. You are bucking a hostile governmental/private coalition in asking for fairness and consideration for yourself. Learn the lesson from history. Peace and persistent are key.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selma_t...gomery_marches

Your best bet, your ONLY choice, and the purpose of this post, is NOT to play into their hands. Every spearo, kayakfisherman, commercial fisherman makes his/her best impact when you show up, you continue to speak respectfully, you act civilly, you continue to work peacefully, smile, educate, and recruit convert, and you represent the best of the gentleman sportsman tradition.

Let your passion and energy be channeled into organizing, showing up, and delivering the best points you can, as well as smile and win converts.

Remember that this site, Bloodydecks, and Spearboard are heavily monitored (Steve Benavides, one of the enviro RSG, admitted that much in the recent OC Diving News discussions). Materials have been plagiarized from our work.

We are leading by example, and they are struggling to paint us as violent and intimidation (thank god the days of lynching and dogs and firehoses are behind us). There have been attempts at provoking us into responding (one tried to provoke me at the last meeting). Just let it roll off.

So the fanatics will try to provoke--I'm pretty sure it's going to be a coordinated effort on this point from hereon. Anything they can do to reinforce their attempt at painting fishermen, spearos, and kayakfishermen as intimidating. This is a frequently-used Childrens' Pool tactics by the seal people--slash out and then play the victim--a well-worn page in their playbook.

Just smile and hand out literature and speak civilly. Going forward, if we are going to f$ck up, or if they can goad us into f$cking up, losing our cool and getting censured for "intimidation" is the way it's gonna happen and their wetdream comes true.

Stay friendly, stay frosty, do your best to let it roll off your back. If you get yelled at or spit on--don't fight, don't react. Go get a DFG agent at the meeting and report. Or get me or Chris Fiero or someone similar, and we'll deal with it.

Holy Mackerel · 06-08-2009, 01:34 PM

A good reminder Joe! thanks!

Tman · 06-08-2009, 02:08 PM

And when this tactic doesn't work, they will then accuse us of bribing people to speak in our favor.

...ooops, I'm sorry, did I just ruin one of your plans there, enviros?

Funny, last session I saw a couple of the women enviros throwing some glares our way, they sure didn't look like they were intimidated...intimidating maybe, just not intimidated.

Good advice there Joe.

Billy V · 06-08-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tman

Funny, last session I saw a couple of the women enviros throwing some glares our way, they sure didn't look like they were intimidated...intimidating maybe, just not intimidated.

Good advice there Joe.

They think you're Hot and want your body !

I have an idea of how to neutralize this latest ecoterrorist strategy, more at Joe's house.
2 ideas actually.

dorado50 · 06-08-2009, 06:56 PM

I don't want to put myself in a situation like that because I know of the volitility involved. I know the personalities of these people and how they intimidate to incite. I cannot nor will I ever be in the same room as these people. Lets just say its against my "religion". Good luck to you all on this ordeal. I will and continue to contribute $.

dorado50 · 06-08-2009, 02:09 PM

Ok, someone yells at me or spits on me,I'll be sure to ignore it and calmly come ond get you to handle the situation for me. Thanks for that....

zenspearo · 06-08-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorado50

Ok, someone yells at me or spits on me,I'll be sure to ignore it and calmly come ond get you to handle the situation for me. Thanks for that....

I think anyone of us can take down the whiny guys and girls. Physically. But that plays directly into their hands.

If you follow the Childrens' Pool saga, this is usually what happens. One of the seal people shoves a beachgoer. Immediately after that, the seal person screams "assault" and conveniently, another person is there to act as a "witness." We have the whole thing on videotape if you want to watch.

Their goal is to compile the police records to further their claim that they are victimized. Or to sue your homeowner insurance for nuisance value.

Whether you can handle yourself is not the issue. In fact, they KNOW you can and are able to physically defend yourself. They will goad you into it and turn around and play victim to have the system come after you.

When you come and get one of us, we won't be physically responding either. Whatever happens, we will try to make sure we get the incident on official record. I'm a lawyer, and a witness/participant of some gnarly Berkeley protests in my days. So I've seen this game played a few times.

That is the best way to respond to their attempt to paint us as intimidating and violent. It's more helpful, strategically, than the temporary satisfaction of physically responding (which I know you will prevail).

That's all I'm saying.

Fiskadoro · 06-08-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenspearo

We see this latest coordinated effort increasing in tempo and volume at the June 4, 2009 BRTF meeting and subsequently online. Person after person, RSG members and non-RSG members from the enviro side, come up to the BRTF and allege generalized "intimidation" by fishermen and then spread the same message online. This is despite the fact that out of over 200 spearo/kayakfishermen/fishermen showing up at the meeting, not a single incident can be cited.

Though I did not see it first hand, I figured when I saw them return at the end of the meeting that that was going to be their strategy. They intentionally abandoned the general comment section in order to come back later and play the intimidation card.

When you have the votes you go with the votes. When you don't have the votes you blame the process or claim someone is trying to intimidate you and keep you out of the process.

It's like the applause thing. No-one applauded until the enviros applauded for several of their speakers. The Next fishing speaker got massive applause and then suddenly applause was a problem, and we were told not to applaud.

bellcon · 06-08-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Ok, someone yells at me or spits on me,I'll be sure to ignore it and calmly come ond get you to handle the situation for me. Thanks for that....

Dave,
your post almost always make me smile

"Excuse me Chris... I dont mean to interupt... but that Peta lady just yelled at me... and then Spit on me...Can you help a bother out...Please"

now back to the good points made by this post...
Thanks zenspearo!

zenspearo · 06-08-2009, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bellcon

Dave,
your post almost always make me smile

"Excuse me Chris... I dont mean to interupt... but that Peta lady just yelled at me... and then Spit on me...Can you help a bother out...Please"

now back to the good points made by this post...
Thanks zenspearo!

That's exactly what you do. Okay, may be not in the exact language, but that's the smart play.

They have a lot of fanatics and end-justify-means people. Jim Day had been in the environmental movement in his past and can tell you. Do you want to get tangled in an assault lawsuit pressed by a fanatic who is angling to be a martyr for the cause?

Ideally, one of us will get the DFG. One of us will keep track of the person assaulting, and we'll work together to get the person arrested and get the incident on record (and preventing you, in your insanely pissed-off mood, from getting yourself in trouble just like they hope you would--just don't swing at us

).

Matt · 06-08-2009, 04:08 PM

Hmmmm....dirty tactics...false accusations...lying...kinda makes ya feel like they think they might lose eh????

I think we all know who we are and I must say I have attempted to try and be nice to the enviros who in turn stare at me with hateful eyes!! Oh well so much for goodwill and a fair fight!

fryguy · 06-08-2009, 05:31 PM

maybe we should have an extreme side....

you know, so we can have a better picture of where the "middle ground" is.....

hell, we should accuse them of everything they accuse us of

jflyfysh · 06-08-2009, 06:51 PM

[quote=Jim Day;39843]Though I did not see it first hand, I figured when I saw them return at the end of the meeting that that was going to be their strategy. They intentionally abandoned the general comment section in order to come back later and play the intimidation card.

When you have the votes you go with the votes. When you don't have the votes you blame the process or claim someone is trying to intimidate you and keep you out of the process.

told not to applaud.

[/quotIt's like the applause thing. No-one applauded until the enviros applauded for several of their speakers. The Next fishing speaker got massive applause and then suddenly applause was a problem, and we were e]

06-08-2009, 01:30 PM	#1
zenspearo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 167	Kayakfishermen/spearos/fishermen are intimidating and violent--The new enviro tactic Guys/gals, I've been talking to a few people and we notice a particular pattern emerging recently and in a quite coordinated manner. Taking a page out of the 60's playbook against the civil rights movement, there is now a coordinated effort on the anti-fishing side to paint spearos, fishermen, and anyone who shows up at MLPA meeting to testify as "intimidation." The lynching attempt is on. This is a well-proven strategy for those in power. By painting those of us who exercise our constitutional right to peacefully assemble and speak out and redress grievances as "violent" or "intimidation", they hope to motivate their sympathetic authority to take action to repress. We see this latest coordinated effort increasing in tempo and volume at the June 4, 2009 BRTF meeting and subsequently online. Person after person, RSG members and non-RSG members from the enviro side, come up to the BRTF and allege generalized "intimidation" by fishermen and then spread the same message online. This is despite the fact that out of over 200 spearo/kayakfishermen/fishermen showing up at the meeting, not a single incident can be cited. ZERO EVIDENCE. For that, we should be proud. You are now the new Selma marchers. You are bucking a hostile governmental/private coalition in asking for fairness and consideration for yourself. Learn the lesson from history. Peace and persistent are key. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selma_t...gomery_marches Your best bet, your ONLY choice, and the purpose of this post, is NOT to play into their hands. Every spearo, kayakfisherman, commercial fisherman makes his/her best impact when you show up, you continue to speak respectfully, you act civilly, you continue to work peacefully, smile, educate, and recruit convert, and you represent the best of the gentleman sportsman tradition. Let your passion and energy be channeled into organizing, showing up, and delivering the best points you can, as well as smile and win converts. Remember that this site, Bloodydecks, and Spearboard are heavily monitored (Steve Benavides, one of the enviro RSG, admitted that much in the recent OC Diving News discussions). Materials have been plagiarized from our work. We are leading by example, and they are struggling to paint us as violent and intimidation (thank god the days of lynching and dogs and firehoses are behind us). There have been attempts at provoking us into responding (one tried to provoke me at the last meeting). Just let it roll off. So the fanatics will try to provoke--I'm pretty sure it's going to be a coordinated effort on this point from hereon. Anything they can do to reinforce their attempt at painting fishermen, spearos, and kayakfishermen as intimidating. This is a frequently-used Childrens' Pool tactics by the seal people--slash out and then play the victim--a well-worn page in their playbook. Just smile and hand out literature and speak civilly. Going forward, if we are going to f$ck up, or if they can goad us into f$cking up, losing our cool and getting censured for "intimidation" is the way it's gonna happen and their wetdream comes true. Stay friendly, stay frosty, do your best to let it roll off your back. If you get yelled at or spit on--don't fight, don't react. Go get a DFG agent at the meeting and report. Or get me or Chris Fiero or someone similar, and we'll deal with it. __________________ A spearo, but we are in this MLPA mess together Last edited by zenspearo; 06-08-2009 at 02:02 PM.

06-08-2009, 02:08 PM	#3
Tman BRTF...bought & paid... Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,247	And when this tactic doesn't work, they will then accuse us of bribing people to speak in our favor. ...ooops, I'm sorry, did I just ruin one of your plans there, enviros? Funny, last session I saw a couple of the women enviros throwing some glares our way, they sure didn't look like they were intimidated...intimidating maybe, just not intimidated. Good advice there Joe. __________________ Adios Tman Gaffer for Clay the Fishcatcher

06-08-2009, 04:08 PM	#11
Matt Support your local pangas Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lj Posts: 976	Hmmmm....dirty tactics...false accusations...lying...kinda makes ya feel like they think they might lose eh???? I think we all know who we are and I must say I have attempted to try and be nice to the enviros who in turn stare at me with hateful eyes!! Oh well so much for goodwill and a fair fight! __________________ Thanks Matt F.

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06-08-2009, 01:34 PM	#2
Holy Mackerel Señor member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,627	A good reminder Joe! thanks!

06-08-2009, 06:56 PM	#5
dorado50 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: La Jolla Shores Posts: 1,626	I don't want to put myself in a situation like that because I know of the volitility involved. I know the personalities of these people and how they intimidate to incite. I cannot nor will I ever be in the same room as these people. Lets just say its against my "religion". Good luck to you all on this ordeal. I will and continue to contribute $.

06-08-2009, 02:09 PM	#6
dorado50 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: La Jolla Shores Posts: 1,626	Ok, someone yells at me or spits on me,I'll be sure to ignore it and calmly come ond get you to handle the situation for me. Thanks for that....

06-08-2009, 05:31 PM	#12
fryguy Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: san diego Posts: 33	maybe we should have an extreme side.... you know, so we can have a better picture of where the "middle ground" is..... hell, we should accuse them of everything they accuse us of

06-08-2009, 06:51 PM	#13
jflyfysh Junior Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 3	[quote=Jim Day;39843]Though I did not see it first hand, I figured when I saw them return at the end of the meeting that that was going to be their strategy. They intentionally abandoned the general comment section in order to come back later and play the intimidation card. When you have the votes you go with the votes. When you don't have the votes you blame the process or claim someone is trying to intimidate you and keep you out of the process. told not to applaud. [/quotIt's like the applause thing. No-one applauded until the enviros applauded for several of their speakers. The Next fishing speaker got massive applause and then suddenly applause was a problem, and we were e]