Power Pro Spectra Question - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

Billy V · 12-29-2008, 09:33 PM

I have been testing a few knots at my workbench and have experienced line breakage on my Power Pro #65 lb. WTF.....

This is what I did:

-I tied a 2 ft. section of #30 lb. (Used Ande Mono) to a metal ring on my vise using a San Diego Jam Knot.

-Then I tie a 38 turn Albright Knot to make the connection between the 2 ft. piece of #65 Spectra to the Mono.

-Then I tie a double Palomar Knot with the #65 Spectra end to another metal ring and make a steady pull to failure.

The Power Pro Spectra fails near the middle of its length every time.

WTF...... Has anybody ever tested their line like this before ?

The line is a few months old, but has only been fished 3 times. Its not rotted.
All the knots held just fine.

grey zone · 12-30-2008, 12:13 PM

The Albright Knot is great for joining lines where the is a large difference in diameters, for example 30lb mono to 100lb mono. When joining lines of similar diameters, for example 30lb mono to 65lb spectra I would recommend the uni knot to uni knot connection. The overall knot size is much smaller and very strong. I have never had a failure with this connection. I tie it by first making 10 turns of the spectra around the mono then tighten followed by 3-4 turns of the mono around the spectra. It takes a little practice but this makes a very small knot that will pass through guides unnoticed. A helpful tip when tying this knot is not to tighten the uni knots completely, close but not all the way tight, until both knots are brought together. This will minimize friction on the lines. When tying spectra to a ring, swivel or hook use a regular Palomar knot, it will not slip a double palomar is not necessary. Always consider friction on your line when tying any knot. Friction causes abrasion and heat, both spectra and mono melt. Good luck!

gary sullivan · 12-30-2008, 12:30 PM

I stopped using power pro years ago when I had line breakage not attributable to pilot error. There has been several threads about this product on both local boards discussing it's merits. Here is a good link to one from 2007.
http://forum.kayak4fish.com/viewtopi...ght=powere+pro

Holy Mackerel · 12-30-2008, 02:03 PM

I had #65 PP bust upon load up a couple of times, if it nicks in any manner, it significantly reduces the strength. I am now using #80 PP on my bait reels, and been happy, no lost fish, well due to PP breaking.

Billy V · 12-30-2008, 02:31 PM

For what its worth here is a pic of (2) of the knots I tested to failure.
You can see both lines broke is almost the same spot. The line was clean with no nicks or abrasions.

I tried this 6 times with the same results.
-The Used Ande Mono #30 lb. out performed the #65 Power Pro every time.

After the test I was able to loosen up and back off the San Diego Jam knot and remove it from the vise handle. I took the whole piece to Squidco for Joey to see what happened.

They tied the Power Pro from my reel on a spring scale and it held to its rating without breaking. They offered to replace the line if I wanted, but at this time I decide to hold off.

Notice the break just to the right of the albright knots.

grey zone · 12-30-2008, 04:18 PM

30lb mono joined by 38 turns of 65lb Power Pro in a Albright knot and the spectra breaks six times in a consistant location by the knot, something is not right. I use 50lb Power Pro and combine it with either 30,40 or 50lb Maxima and the mono almost always loses when tested. Not meaning to criticize, I would seriously consider your knot tying technique as the problem since the Power Pro tested out.

esdees · 12-30-2008, 04:29 PM

Can you tell how much pressure you're putting on the line before it snaps? It's hard to tell from the picture, but that mono looks heavier than 30. It might help to have someone watch over your shoulder.

1Flatfish · 12-30-2008, 07:47 PM

Is it possible that your power pro is breaking at its rating, but the mono is actually much stronger than its rating? In other words, you would expect the mono/spectra combo to fail somewhere around 30 lbs. But actually, it didn't fail until you put 65 lbs. or more pressure on it. You actually got better than expected...and your knots held! The only problem is you WANT the combo to fail at the mono. What to do? I used to use the spectra/mono combo, but am slowly migrating back to straight mono or fluorocarbon depending on the application.

THE DARKHORSE · 12-30-2008, 11:15 PM

But I think this experiment is flawed by the length of the two lines that are being used. It all comes down to stretch, and with two feet of spectra (with no stretch) and two feet of flouro (that stretches a little), the flouro is doing it's job and the spectra is too. All of the pressure in your experiment is on the spectra, not the flouro.

I've heard people talk crap on Power Pro (power pop as some refer to it), but I've never had a failure with my two year old 65 lb Power Pro, works for me. Especially if it tested out on the scale at the shop, end of story.

Billy V · 12-30-2008, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grey zone

30lb mono joined by 38 turns of 65lb Power Pro in a Albright knot and the spectra breaks six times in a consistant location by the knot, something is not right. I use 50lb Power Pro and combine it with either 30,40 or 50lb Maxima and the mono almost always loses when tested. Not meaning to criticize, I would seriously consider your knot tying technique as the problem since the Power Pro tested out.

No offense taken.
The knots never failed in any of the 6 times I tied the mono to the spectra. They didn't even deform, I was able to untie the san diego jam knot in the mono with a small pic. I was also able to untie the double palomar knot on the spectra end.

It didn't break by the knot.
It was always the spectra that failed somewhere near the middle of its length.

There must be some weak spots in the spectra to cause it to break first.
-------------------------------
The mono was bulk Ande #30 that has been fished a dozen times.
In the pic the top palomar knot has been untied from the metal ring, so the line appears longer.

Billy V · 12-30-2008, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE DARKHORSE

But I think this experiment is flawed by the length of the two lines that are being used. It all comes down to stretch, and with two feet of spectra (with no stretch) and two feet of flouro (that stretches a little), the flouro is doing it's job and the spectra is too. All of the pressure in your experiment is on the spectra, not the flouro.

I've heard people talk crap on Power Pro (power pop as some refer to it), but I've never had a failure with my two year old 65 lb Power Pro, works for me. Especially if it tested out on the scale at the shop, end of story.

You have a point.
Just for the hell of it, tomorrow I will tie the Power pro to the left over stretched out mono I used in my test to see what happens.

Its clear Ande Mono I tested.
I just noticed the seaguar floro label in the pic, but that was used for a few leaders I was mocking up earlier.

Billy V · 12-30-2008, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esdees

Can you tell how much pressure you're putting on the line before it snaps? It's hard to tell from the picture, but that mono looks heavier than 30. It might help to have someone watch over your shoulder.

Its #30, The flash from the camera is reflecting on the line.
-It makes me wonder how much the Mono will take before breaking. It some durable stuff.

I'm going to buy myself a spring scale on ebay.

T-Rex · 12-30-2008, 11:46 PM

Where did you buy your Power Pro? I've never had a problem with the 65# Power Pro I bought at Squidco a few years ago. I understand there was and maybe still is a lot of counterfeit Power Pro being sold on eBay.

THE DARKHORSE · 12-30-2008, 11:49 PM

The most important aspect of the experiment is that your knots held up, go back to the lab "if you lose a fish from spectra failure".

The best experiments are done while floating on a piece of plastic, go fishing

.

j mo · 12-31-2008, 07:19 AM

Hi Billy,

Josh is correct about the line lengths. In a normal situation the "stretch" Josh refers to is being absorbed over a long distance ( hopefully with a

on the other end). That distance is key as pressure is distributed over the length of the line. In your experiment the pressure has only a few feet to travel across, which I think could be part of your "test" problem.

The other aspect you might want to consider is doing a blind test. Testing each line independently to see if you achieve a break point similar to the manufacturers to rule out bad batch.

Here are a couple of good links that you might find helpful.
http://www.stripersonline.com/surfta...d.php?t=497830
http://www.sportfishingmag.com/article.jsp?ID=43557

best,
Josh

Holy Mackerel · 12-31-2008, 08:15 AM

Ande, there is your problem, that line is crap. Andy, however is a cool dude...

12-29-2008, 09:33 PM	#1
Billy V Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bay Ho Posts: 1,382	Power Pro Spectra Breakage I have been testing a few knots at my workbench and have experienced line breakage on my Power Pro #65 lb. WTF..... This is what I did: -I tied a 2 ft. section of #30 lb. (Used Ande Mono) to a metal ring on my vise using a San Diego Jam Knot. -Then I tie a 38 turn Albright Knot to make the connection between the 2 ft. piece of #65 Spectra to the Mono. -Then I tie a double Palomar Knot with the #65 Spectra end to another metal ring and make a steady pull to failure. The Power Pro Spectra fails near the middle of its length every time. WTF...... Has anybody ever tested their line like this before ? The line is a few months old, but has only been fished 3 times. Its not rotted. All the knots held just fine. Last edited by Billy V; 12-29-2008 at 09:58 PM.

12-30-2008, 11:15 PM	#9
THE DARKHORSE Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Seven minutes from the launch! Posts: 987	I'm no scientist.... But I think this experiment is flawed by the length of the two lines that are being used. It all comes down to stretch, and with two feet of spectra (with no stretch) and two feet of flouro (that stretches a little), the flouro is doing it's job and the spectra is too. All of the pressure in your experiment is on the spectra, not the flouro. I've heard people talk crap on Power Pro (power pop as some refer to it), but I've never had a failure with my two year old 65 lb Power Pro, works for me. Especially if it tested out on the scale at the shop, end of story. __________________

12-30-2008, 11:49 PM	#14
THE DARKHORSE Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Seven minutes from the launch! Posts: 987	Look on the bright side..... The most important aspect of the experiment is that your knots held up, go back to the lab "if you lose a fish from spectra failure". The best experiments are done while floating on a piece of plastic, go fishing . __________________

12-31-2008, 07:19 AM	#15
j mo Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Encinitas Posts: 600	Oh Snap! Hi Billy, Josh is correct about the line lengths. In a normal situation the "stretch" Josh refers to is being absorbed over a long distance ( hopefully with a on the other end). That distance is key as pressure is distributed over the length of the line. In your experiment the pressure has only a few feet to travel across, which I think could be part of your "test" problem. The other aspect you might want to consider is doing a blind test. Testing each line independently to see if you achieve a break point similar to the manufacturers to rule out bad batch. Here are a couple of good links that you might find helpful. http://www.stripersonline.com/surfta...d.php?t=497830 http://www.sportfishingmag.com/article.jsp?ID=43557 best, Josh Last edited by j mo; 12-31-2008 at 07:28 AM. Reason: weird characters

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12-30-2008, 12:13 PM	#2
grey zone Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: san diego Posts: 158	The Albright Knot is great for joining lines where the is a large difference in diameters, for example 30lb mono to 100lb mono. When joining lines of similar diameters, for example 30lb mono to 65lb spectra I would recommend the uni knot to uni knot connection. The overall knot size is much smaller and very strong. I have never had a failure with this connection. I tie it by first making 10 turns of the spectra around the mono then tighten followed by 3-4 turns of the mono around the spectra. It takes a little practice but this makes a very small knot that will pass through guides unnoticed. A helpful tip when tying this knot is not to tighten the uni knots completely, close but not all the way tight, until both knots are brought together. This will minimize friction on the lines. When tying spectra to a ring, swivel or hook use a regular Palomar knot, it will not slip a double palomar is not necessary. Always consider friction on your line when tying any knot. Friction causes abrasion and heat, both spectra and mono melt. Good luck!

12-30-2008, 12:30 PM	#3
gary sullivan Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: spring valley Posts: 192	I stopped using power pro years ago when I had line breakage not attributable to pilot error. There has been several threads about this product on both local boards discussing it's merits. Here is a good link to one from 2007. http://forum.kayak4fish.com/viewtopi...ght=powere+pro

12-30-2008, 02:03 PM	#4
Holy Mackerel Señor member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,627	I had #65 PP bust upon load up a couple of times, if it nicks in any manner, it significantly reduces the strength. I am now using #80 PP on my bait reels, and been happy, no lost fish, well due to PP breaking.

12-30-2008, 02:31 PM	#5
Billy V Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bay Ho Posts: 1,382	For what its worth here is a pic of (2) of the knots I tested to failure. You can see both lines broke is almost the same spot. The line was clean with no nicks or abrasions. I tried this 6 times with the same results. -The Used Ande Mono #30 lb. out performed the #65 Power Pro every time. After the test I was able to loosen up and back off the San Diego Jam knot and remove it from the vise handle. I took the whole piece to Squidco for Joey to see what happened. They tied the Power Pro from my reel on a spring scale and it held to its rating without breaking. They offered to replace the line if I wanted, but at this time I decide to hold off. Notice the break just to the right of the albright knots.

12-30-2008, 04:18 PM	#6
grey zone Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: san diego Posts: 158	30lb mono joined by 38 turns of 65lb Power Pro in a Albright knot and the spectra breaks six times in a consistant location by the knot, something is not right. I use 50lb Power Pro and combine it with either 30,40 or 50lb Maxima and the mono almost always loses when tested. Not meaning to criticize, I would seriously consider your knot tying technique as the problem since the Power Pro tested out.

12-30-2008, 04:29 PM	#7
esdees The Good Clone Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Clairemont Posts: 520	Can you tell how much pressure you're putting on the line before it snaps? It's hard to tell from the picture, but that mono looks heavier than 30. It might help to have someone watch over your shoulder.

12-30-2008, 07:47 PM	#8
1Flatfish Wayne Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 98	Power Pro Is it possible that your power pro is breaking at its rating, but the mono is actually much stronger than its rating? In other words, you would expect the mono/spectra combo to fail somewhere around 30 lbs. But actually, it didn't fail until you put 65 lbs. or more pressure on it. You actually got better than expected...and your knots held! The only problem is you WANT the combo to fail at the mono. What to do? I used to use the spectra/mono combo, but am slowly migrating back to straight mono or fluorocarbon depending on the application.

12-30-2008, 11:46 PM	#13
T-Rex Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 770	Where did you buy your Power Pro? I've never had a problem with the 65# Power Pro I bought at Squidco a few years ago. I understand there was and maybe still is a lot of counterfeit Power Pro being sold on eBay.

12-31-2008, 08:15 AM	#16
Holy Mackerel Señor member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,627	Ande, there is your problem, that line is crap. Andy, however is a cool dude...