Results of Demos; Hobi Outback & Revo 13 and WS Ride 135

[ftufc]

A few of you knew that I was going to demo 3 kayaks last Sat. in NP Harbor, so I thought I'd spend a few minutes to share my thoughts just in case another newbie finds it useful -

It was a very nice day on the water although a bit windy, 10 - 15 mph; I don't know if that's light or not for kayakers,,, I'm too new. Even though the wind didn't cause a lot of chop, there were occasional white caps in the harbor; I stayed inside the harbor between backbay and the main channel. Keep in mind, I'm 58 y.o., 6'2" 190# in reasonable shape for my age, but still kinda old. I demo'd each boat for 35 min.s.

The first boat I tried was the WS Ride 135; It was extremely stable and I was able to easily stand in it and paddle, although with the wind, I acted more as a sail than anything else. The seat was very comfortable and the foot peg adjustments were easy. I could've paddled in it for several hours comfortably. However, because of the size and the amount of hull in the water, It was a bit slow and labored. This boat was not fitted with a rudder, so it was all paddle; but the boat moved very nicely and tracked very well. Overall it was a very comfortable and stable experience, just kind of clunky.

The second boat I tried was the Revo 13; an entirely different feel and it took me just one or two minutes to feel stable and comfortable. The Mirage Drive was really pretty interesting. Apparently I have more upper body strength than leg strength (yeah, I am a stork) and after about 10 mins of peddling (really more of a stepping action than peddling) my legs were getting fatigued; I was trying to see just how fast it would move; so I slowed down to a very comfortable walk, about 4 - 5 mph and my legs came back and I was able to peddle very comfortably. The couple of things I noticed about the drive were, it isn't as "silent" as Hobie advertising would lead you to believe; aside from limiting out on each stroke and hearing a thud, even if I consciously didn't max my stroke, you can still hear the blade pushing water; so it's probably no more "silent" than a Minn Kota drive. The other thing with the Mirage in the Revo is that it takes a lot of cockpit space; there's not much room once you reach the drive area, so reaching the front hatch is not practical at all. Although I tried standing, I couldn't make it much past a crouch on two feet, just too high a center of gravity; and it's not meant to be stood in. What I surprisingly did enjoy about the Revo is you are IN the water; it's a low gunnel so you can easily hang your legs over the sides and almost lie on the water; it was enjoyable. And I was easily able to sit side saddle in it, making it even more fun. I spent some time paddling this boat too, just so I could see how it moved without the drive, and it was sleek. Very easy to paddle and pretty quick; however, while paddling, the rudder lever, managed by left hand not feet, was a huge pain in the ass; if paddling, you're much better off raising the rudder. Also, the seat of the Revo was not comfortable at all; there was adequate back support but it was just "lumpy" or limited in its adjustability; not a great seat. But overall the boat was fun and fast and maneuverable, but with very little cockpit space.

The Outback was my last run, and it was VERY interesting. It first feels like a tank on the water; the gunnels are high, it's a pretty dry boat, it's very stable, only fractionally less stable than the Ride. The Mirage Drive felt the same as in the Revo but the space around the drive was more user-friendly; I was easily able to move forward and get into the front hatch. I really tried to get all over this boat, lol; I stood up in the center, I crouched on the bow, I crouched in the area behind the seat, all the while feeling pretty stable, and this was in the middle of the harbor channel with caps and wind. It wasn't as enjoyable sitting side saddle as on the Revo because you're sitting lower in the boat, not on the boat as in the Revo. When I paddled the Outback, it moved along reasonably well; a bit better than the Ride, but there are two screw heads (one on each side) protruding from the gunnel (for the paddle keeper cords) that you scrape your knuckles on while drawing the paddle back; a raging pain in the ass, an owner would have to remove those screws and find another solution to hold your paddle.

I'd have to say that, for me, overall, I liked both Hobies better than the Ride, even though the Ride was more comfortable. Between the two Hobies, I was so confused between which I really liked better that immediately after beaching the Outback I hopped back into the Revo for another 15 min.s. My conclusion was, the Revo is a slick, fun boat,,, the Outback is more practical. They both had poor seating and a crappy rudder steering system, but they are quality boats and I like the Mirage Drive as an option while paddling. If paddling either, I would remove the drive and stow it and lift the rudder (oh yeah, and remove those poorly placed screw heads on the Outback; it was an effort to keep this remark "clean").

Jarrod is kind enough to let me try his Cuda 14 tomorrow afternoon and I can't wait! I think if I weren't dead set on having an alternate means of propulsion, I would VERY seriously consider the Cuda (even without trying it yet), there are so many features that I love about it.

The reason I am decided on having the option of alternative propulsion (alternative to paddling) is that, although I intend to paddle a lot, I also intend to travel 5 - 15 miles when I go out, and at my age, I don't want to be forced to rely on just my arms and back to make it safely back; if I were in my 20's and 30's I wouldn't even consider another mode; but old age sucks and what sucks more is having to think of alternative ways to protect myself.

I am so annoyed that I was unable to demo the OK Torque,,, but yesterday I bought it anyway. After watching more than 20 videos and reading almost 100 reviews and articles, I'm pretty confident that I will really like the features of this boat. It seems to be a bit sleeker than the Ride and Cuda; I believe it will be stable enough for me to stand and fish for periods of time (especially with an 85# ballast, between the Minn Kota drive and battery), especially if I install a leaning brace; all areas of the boat are pretty easily accessible; it's longer and faster; it has a bit more of the Revo "in the water" feel than some others; I like the peddle rudder control much better than the hand control, especially while paddling; the cockpit is VERY open and accessible; and it's very add-on friendly. This will be my primary boat and I'm going to get a second boat in the next couple of weeks for my son/wife/guests and I'm leaning toward the Outback at this point.

So, for whatever, or little, benefit this is, that's my take on these three boats; hope it helps someone.

[sasha]

Thats a very nice review.. I also liked how you compared all three kayaks. I would like to see how you like the cuda.

[Sdspeed]

Thanks for taking the time to give some feedback on 3 popular kayaks. Looking forward to hearing your take on the Torque.

[ftufc]

Thanks; I will add my thoughts on the Cuda (meeting up with Jarrod later today) and the Torque (can't stinkin wait to get it!)

[Jim Sammons LJKF]

Just curious how big a guy you are?
I had a torque for some time, just sold it, and in my opinion unless you are a smaller guy or very agile you will not be doing much standing and fishing in it. Standing on flat water is one thing, standing and fishing is another and this boat was not really made for that.
IF that is your real desire a great addition to the kayak would be the Scotty Stabilizers.

[Rabac3898]

Sorry I don't agree with your opinion on the Revo. I love mine and don't experience the cons that you mentioned. I am 5'10 and 180 lbs and 53 years old. Hobie's have PEDALS not Peddles. Peddle means to sell something. While pedaling its best to have reclined position totally different from paddle position on the seat.
I guess I am used to it after owning one for 4 years. Yeah, I know there is no perfect kayak.

[ftufc]

Thanks Jim for your feedback, very much appreciated; I'm 6'2", 190#, age 58. Yours is the first comment I've read about the Torque not supporting a standing fisherman. Standing for me is not a necessity but a wish. I'm getting it today, and because I won't be able to make a beach/harbor until next Sat. I'm going to drop it in my pool and play on it (80F v 68F, lol). I would really like to know why you changed from a Torque after several years, and what you changed to???? And, have you tried the Scotty outrigger? When I first saw it my interest was really piqued by it, but it looked like it might be a bit bulky/cumbersome; what do you think of it?

Yeah Rabac, everyone's got an opinion right, lol. My review must've sounded much more harsh than I intended; I actually loved the feel of the Revo; just hated the seat and rudder control. And you're absolutely right, "peddling" v "pedaling", I was right in the middle of some Arthur Miller novel when I wrote that.

As an add-on; I demo'd Jarrod's Cuda 14 last night in OSide; I was so pleasantly surprised at his willingness to load up and meet me with two kayaks at 7pm on a Friday night; he's just a genuinely good guy. And it's a very cool boat; very manageable, sleek, great tracking, tons of room inside, very easily "standable", great weight, extremely comfortable adjustable seat, very easy to paddle (in both seat positions), and I don't know the technical details but the hull material appeared to be a composite which provided it with a bit more rigidity which felt good (it almost had a semi-fiberglass feel to it). The only complaint I expressed to Jarrod was, the boat is pretty wet; the scupper holes are large and many, so you wind up with a bit more water in the cockpit than the others I've tried. And, not a complaint but a wish,,, the seat adjustment is spectacular, but very difficult to make with just one hand (for an old guy anyway); but I loved being able to sit "in" the cockpit while paddling hard, then raising it about 5" to cruise and fish.

Hey, also, I really hope I don't embarrass Jarrod (I will feel badly if I do), but I'm a firm believer that when you see something wonderful you need to share it! When we were done loading the kayaks back onto his truck, I saw this incredible kayak bait tank in the back seat; it is portable, probably about 7-gal, self-contained, beautifully designed, sort of the perfect bait tank. Turns out Jarrod makes them. If I hadn't just earlier that day bought one, I would've bought his on the spot. You should contact him if you're interested.

As soon as I get the Torque on "real" water I'll follow up.

[Jim Sammons LJKF]

Originally Posted by ftufc

Thanks Jim for your feedback, very much appreciated; I'm 6'2", 190#, age 58. Yours is the first comment I've read about the Torque not supporting a standing fisherman. Standing for me is not a necessity but a wish. I'm getting it today, and because I won't be able to make a beach/harbor until next Sat. I'm going to drop it in my pool and play on it (80F v 68F, lol). I would really like to know why you changed from a Torque after several years, and what you changed to???? And, have you tried the Scotty outrigger? When I first saw it my interest was really piqued by it, but it looked like it might be a bit bulky/cumbersome; what do you think of it?

Well I guess I should ask where you plan on fishing, though if you gave Jarrod's kayak a try I assume it is local. I have done stand up fishing in the Torque on the flats in Georgia but would not consider it in any kind of offshore conditions. The Torque was just not made to be a stand up kayak, the motor works well and it is a good paddler when you pull the motor out and insert the plug.

The reason for my getting rid of my torque are two fold, I rarely used it, I am a paddler and really prefer that to any alternative method of propulsion. It was mainly used by my videographer, as it really is an awesome shooting platform. The main reason though is that after over twenty years working with Ocean Kayak, I now work with Jackson, so I got rid of all my OK's.

As to the Scotty Outriggers yes I have used them on many occasions while stand up sight casting on lakes up in northern Canada. They really make stand up fishing much easier. Standing is one thing, standing and casting or landing fish is another issue and the stabilizers really help. And if set correctly they also have little influence on the paddle-ability of the kayak, particularly if you have a rudder.

Again I was not in kayaks that were made for standing these were better paddling kayaks, that with the stabilizers, could be used for stand up fishing. Fast boats that I could add these to so that I could stand when I wanted was pretty cool.
I don't generally find a need to stand while fishing locally so I rarely used them here.
I know smaller more agile guys that stand and fish on these same boats, on flat waters, but I am not small or agile.



The Jackson Kayaks though were made for standing up in so the stabilizers are not needed on flat water. I am still not going to stand up in mine while offshore. The last thing I want to do is go for a swim or send my gear to the bottom.

[ftufc]

Man, that's great info Jim, thanks for taking time to write it. If I decide I absolutely need to stand to fish, I'll look more seriously into the Scotty's.

And as I told Jarrod, if I didn't want an alternative mode of propulsion, I'd probably be in a Jackson right now; also, the color schemes are sooooo cool (the blue/yellow/green is incredible).

[Jim Sammons LJKF]

Originally Posted by ftufc

I don't know the technical details but the hull material appeared to be a composite which provided it with a bit more rigidity which felt good (it almost had a semi-fiberglass feel to it). The only complaint .

The kayak is just the same as the rest when it comes to material, rotomolded linear polyethylene.
They kept the mold very smooth so it has the fiberglass feel and rigidity simply comes from the angles placed in the mold and several foam blocks inside the hull.
I am really enjoying the Jackson Cuda 14 and I certainly have not been this comfortable after many hours in the kayak as I am in this boat.

[lowprofile]

Don't try a Pro Angler...

great reviews though! i like the Revo a lot. but not as much as my PA. if you don't mind being wet and like to get out on the grounds quickly, the Revo is the way to go.

If you like bringing everything you own to the show and cruise the freeways at 70... you might like the PA.

Malibu X factor is also a good choice if your more into paddle kayaks. i'm 6'6" and weighed 245-250 when i paddled mine. no problem standing up or bringing more gear than you ever need.

[Vikingj]

Great review - honest and unbias report. I totally agree on your revo vs outback comparison (fun vs pract). I found it was hard to decide between the 2 and finally chose the fun/sleek/low-otw revo and after 4 yrs still love it. I'm 6'4", 207lb, age 66 and go 6-8mi once or twice a week. My only regret is in regard to hooping - wish I had the extra deck space and wider hull of an OB for carrying/pulling nets. PS- After using the mirage drive several times you learn to pedal silently- just takes a little time & practice. Thanks for the super report!
Wayne

[ftufc]

Great addition Lowprofile. It's funny because the PA 14 was the first yak I got serious about,,, but decided, exactly as you said, it's a Whittier Blvd cruiser, lol, slow roll with all the comforts of home; I could give up the comfort and stadability for being a bit more agile (especially in surf entries).

Btw, I'm about to search for earlier posts about waders,,, then I see your pic of some great, comfortable looking waders; are waders common practice while kayaking? I wonder who uses them and what kind are the biggest bang for the buck. I've sort of resolved myself to a shortie spring suit with a spray guard jacket & neoprene booties with rubber soles, for early morning, chilly, beach entries; is that a reasonable approach?

Thanks Viking, I appreciate it; my hope is to be actively kayaking at 66! Good to hear about the Mirage drive... the other aspect of my review, that I just realized this morning, is that these were all "rentals"; a lot of wear and possibly not immaculately taken care of, so there is a chance, for example, that the dissatisfaction I experienced with the Hobie rudder control was due to excessive wear,,, I just don't know.

[ftufc]

FINALLY got to try the Torque! I received the Outback and Torque Thursday, put everything together, charged the battery, and my son and I took them out in OSide Harbor today.

The Torque was a ball; after all is said and done, I am ecstatic with the selections (Torque & Outback); LOVED the Torque drive, the rudder system, and the feel of the boat. It's sleek and glides through the water very easily while paddling (no power), then paddling under full power is sort of cartoon-ish (remember the 60's episode where Popeye was paddling a canoe after eating spinach). The only slight negative observation I would make is that it is definitely a wet boat. It sits very low in the water and every significant wave came over the bow; outside the harbor we were in 2' waves with 3' - 4' swells and an occasional "big boat" wake. So you're sitting in water all day, in contrast to the super-dry Outback.

The Torque turns on a dime, is VERY maneuverable, and the drive allowed me to stay in one spot while fishing despite a pretty strong surge. Surprisingly though, my son could move faster, in 30 second spurts, in the Outback with the Mirage drive than the Torque on full, and I haven't even installed the turbo fins/rudder yet. It was very stable, but not stand-able, except in the calmest of water.

I know there are plenty of purists who only paddle while fishing, but clearly, the Torque drive made fishing ENORMOUSLY more enjoyable. We were on the water for 4 hours and probably used only 30% of the battery while using it about 70% of the time. I haven't yet installed any electronics or add-on accessories but I love the layout of the cockpit and adding these things will be a breeze.

Overall, ecstatic with both boats!

[finyak]

Any pictures?

[ftufc]

Never thought about pics! I'll post some when I get 'em.