Big threshers?

[lowprofile]

so our "local" fishery usually produces alot of 40-90lb models with some up to 150lbs. i seen some pics of a touney out of DP and they haul in 300lb models like its cool.

from what i've gathered and seen, in the fall, if you head south out of NPH to a canyon you can hook into some 150lb+ models if your there at the right time. But.. this is the only place i know.

so questions... what other places get bigger threshers and can you catch them all year? i was thinking La Jolla would be a good bet, especially since its so deep and all the activity, also carlsbad canyon, also alot of activity in the summer and its also super deep with shallow shelves on each side.

any suggestions? I figure since i dont have much time left in cali, I'm going to give it my all to get the biggest fish of each species i can. fishing just to fish is fun, but i want a 4 hour fight

[Iceman]

I think bigger threshers are know to stay outside of 150 fathoms, find places where water is pushing 1000 feet deep closest to shore.

[mtnbykr2]

Malibu ...mlpa...seen them in the sewer when it is warm

[lowprofile]

Originally Posted by Iceman

I think bigger threshers are know to stay outside of 150 fathoms, find places where water is pushing 1000 feet deep closest to shore.

that deep? are they the big eye or palagic threshers?

btw, wheres a good site for maps? if any.

[Iceman]

http://www.saltwatersportsman.com/sp...resher-madness

My bad I think most work the 100 fathom contour.

Elm focuses on two different depth zones and, in effect, two different fish populations. “Depending on where the bite has been happening, I fish along the 50-fathom curve or the 100-fathom curve farther offshore,” says Elm. Although it’s not written in stone, he usually finds sub-100-pound fish tighter to the beach. The bigger fish usually work deeper feeding zones, where you are more likely to encounter a typical 100- to 150-pound thresher — with a shot at the occasional 250-pound monster.

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by lowprofile

I'm going to give it my all to get the biggest fish of each species i can. fishing just to fish is fun, but i want a 4 hour fight

If you really want to fish for adult Ts you should read Fred Archers books on them. I've posted some things over the years but he's got a good general book on how to do it, that explains the special gear etc.. you need to target Bigger T sharks.

Basically there are two behavior groups juveniles and adults and they behave in different ways. Adult T's are much tougher then pups under 150 pounds they fight harder and longer then anything you can imagine. It's something you can't really get until you tie into a really big one. People say swords are tougher but I'm not sure they are right one that one. Archer claims the only thing that compares is Giant blue fin but I've never caught one so I wouldn't know.

A big T will really bust your ass and often fight itself to death. My largest was just over fourteen and a half feet long. That fish sounded 400 yards straight down when I hooked it and stayed down there 1200 feet down for almost a hour traveling five miles in a straight line, before it decided to come up and start jumping. Imagine being hooked to a airplane 1200 feet in the sky moving slowly north while you follow it on the ground. That's kind of what it was like. I couldn't even budge it, I couldn't of pulled it up, I just followed along putting as much pressure as I could waiting. Finally it just came up on it's own, so fast it created a huge bow in my line, so much so that my line was still pointing down when it start jumping thirty feet out of the water a hundred yards ahead of me. They make Marlin look like pussies. Eventually we ended up getting close enough to gaff it, but I only got it because we were able to follow it in the relative comfort and safety in a boat and wait it out.

I only keep adult Ts when they die on the line. I could probably kill a dozen or so a year if I wanted to. I quit posting about them because too many people started fishing for them, as a direct result of what me and a few others posted on BD and elsewhere. It was my first big lesson about fishing in the internet. Used to be I'd be the only one out there or maybe one of my buddies would be targeting them as well. Then due to the internet it went to hundreds of boats killing hundreds of sharks a day, after a while it made me kind of sick.

Now it seems to have calmed down a bit. Most people think there are so many more small ones then large ones, but that's because they do not understand their migration or how to target them, which honestly suits me just fine.

I will say that juvenile Ts stay tight to the coast for a longer period of the year then large ones. Big ones migrate through each spring, and they do come in close enough to target with a kayak, but I'd say you are highly unlikely to land one over 200 pounds.

When I first got into kayaking I got an idea that Id' like to take a big one over 200 pounds from the Yak. First day I tried I hooked a good one off Dana point. My take at the time was that with the same gear that I'd use in my skiff I could land one the same size. So I was fishing with an international, rollers, 80 pound. I had that shark on for longer then it took to land my 14+ T, never got it closer then a hundred feet down, when I was maybe five miles offshore I started thinking there even if I got it there was no way I could paddle it back to shore. I was dead tired, just couldn't get enough lift on it, and there was no way i could of towed it back anyway. At that point started thinking about trying to get it off. I gave it slack, pumped the rod trying to get it to spit the hook, but there was no way I was going to unhook it, and with 80 pound I could not break it off. I felt like a total idiot.

Finally after a few more miles I gave up and just cut it off. I figured better leave it towing a bunch of line then having it die on the line and then not be able to do anything with it.

If you want to target bigger ones I'd suggest finding someone with a skiff to fish them. If you want a long fight on kayak trying beating a 100 to 150 class T on ten pound. My buddy Steve does that all the time and it's a real blast.

I mean how big do you really need? Most people way overestimate their weight anyway.

This female is around 178:


This Male is around the same size.




Shark looks a lot bigger then me, but I'm 6'1" and 185 pounds.

Both those fish were taped and weighed on certified scales, and their about as big a T I'd say I could be land off a unassisted kayak, and that's pushing it. The first was five miles out of Newport, the second only a mile or so off Dana Point. Both of those I caught within thirty minutes of putting a bait in the water, if you know how to target them they are not hard to catch. Unfortunately both were tailhooked and died on the line which lead to two very short seasons for me.

In contrast a real T like this one is in my opinion right out of the question for a kayak.


I couldn't even find a scale big enough to weigh that one up here in LA, and there is no way I could of brought it in to the dock alone on a kayak.

Just my take though. Good luck. I just think if you target adult T sharks from a kayak you may end up with a lot more then you bargained for.

Jim

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by Iceman

http://www.saltwatersportsman.com/sp...resher-madness My bad I think most work the 100 fathom contour.

Ha Ha Ha.... Guys using my light line leader style, Archer would be pissed.

Depth is not that important, upwellings and bait concentrations associated with depth structure are more important.

I don't know the author personally but check this quote out.

"....California Thresher Sharks

Rods: 5 1/2-foot stand-up tuna trolling rod for teaser outfit; 7-foot live-bait-action rod rated for 30- to 50-pound-test for skipbait.

Reels: Accurate ATD 30 for teaser outfit; Shimano TLD 15/20 or equivalent for bait outfit....."

You got to laugh. That's common So. Cal. Marlin gear not Adult Thresher gear. Obviously this guy has little experience T shark fishing or has only fished pups.

Big Threshers will completely demolish TLDs. I love TLDs for most gamefish but, I've got a broken TLD25 right here that was destroyed by an adult TShark. For anything over 200lbs you want an aluminum framed 2 speed that holds at least 400yards of eighty, and that is minimum. Anything less is going to get you in trouble unless your only targeting pups tight to shore. It's a no brainier. Even using cut mackerel (as the author does) your still going to tailhook some fish, say you hook a 200 to 400 pound thresher in the tail and it dies on the line several hundred yards straight down. How are you going to winch it up with a TLD15?

Small hooks "4/0", light leaders, 30 to 50 pound test, small T's in his pics and Marlin gear. It's obvious that most his experience is fishing smaller T sharks.

Jim

[William Novotny]

Jim thank you for the awesome read and insight. My rule on the t's is one for the freezer per season, the rest cpr'd. So far all of mine have been of the smaller variety 70ish with a few a bit larger. Looking to up my sizes a bit this year too.

[Pat]

You got to laugh. That's common So. Cal. Marlin gear not Adult Thresher gear. Obviously this guy has little experience T shark fishing or has only fished pups.

Jim,

Dave E has seen and done more in Socal fishing than you will have ever done in 100 lifetimes, so don't make stupid comments like that when you don't know what you are talking about.

[vincentek9]

caught my 70# thresher with this setup.. 40# spectra. 7'8" 15-30# inshore rod. took an hour and a half outside of NPH.



i heard the best chances for threshers up in the OC are NPH, near the long beach breakwall, and in front of Seal Beach Peir. i ear the canyons of NPH hold larger ones. outside of NPH, the breakwall and seal beach hold smaller teenage T's

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by Pat

Jim, Dave E has seen and done more in Socal fishing than you will have ever done in 100 lifetimes, so don't make stupid comments like that when you don't know what you are talking about.

LMAO!!!

Actually I do know what I'm talking about, that's how I know that 30 to 50 pound test on a TLD15 is the wrong gear for baiting adult threshers.

Pretty much all the true T shark experts I know would say that anyone who disagrees with me on that point doesn't know what they are talking about.

Yes you can bait Striped Marlin on that gear, but it is definitely not the proper gear for fishing adult Threshers over 200 pounds. A TLD15 is a great real for smaller fish and even acceptable for local striped marlin with 30lb test, but it's no match for Giant Bluefin, Swordfish, Adult threshers, or even Cow Yellowfin Tuna. Adult Ts outfight Cows, try taking a TLD15 on a long range trip to fish for Cows.

So maybe you think I'm somehow insulting Dave by saying Ron Ballanti the guy who wrote the article doesn't know the kind of gear that is needed to land big threshers. I'd say that's a stretch. I know of Dave. Tackle guy, works for Aftco. I'm not sure about his shark experience but just for you I'll make some calls, because I know people who know him well. I seriously doubt he's fished sharks as much as I have but then again I'm a shark nut and I've been fishing them for forty years.

Gear wise with his experience you'd think he'd know better then to recommended graphite bodied TLDs for Adult T Sharks, so I kind of think he never said it.

I have no idea who Ron is. From what I can tell from his past articles it seems his biggest thing is writing articles essentially press releases about United Anglers. Seems he interviewed Dave. Which is not that surprising considering that Dave is connected to United Anglers. From the read I'd say that Ron probably doesn't know jack about big threshers. The article is full of half truths and misinterpretations, so I gather he came up with on his own gear ideas or just misinterpreted Dave when it came to gear. Just the mark of poor writing. You tell people one thing and they interpret it into something else.

Let me give you an example:

"The bigger fish usually work deeper feeding zones, where you are more likely to encounter a typical 100- to 150-pound thresher — with a shot at the occasional 250-pound monster...."

Now Dave probably said there are bigger sharks offshore in deeper water, due to their migration pattern, which is true, but I highly doubt he referred to a 250 pound thresher is a "monster". A 250lbs T is not a monster it's a young adult, barely mature enough to breed, and at times you can find whole groups of hundreds of them moving up the coast in packs or in groups working bait balls offshore.

Anyone with any real experience fishing them knows that, so I can't really see Dave saying it.

Jim

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by Pat

...you don't know what you are talking about.

Man I just had a good laugh about this post on the phone, and my friend a true big game and thresher expert made a suggestion I just have to pass on to you.

Why don't you go over to SCMO
Southern California Marlin Online "ask the experts board"http://www.marlinnut.com/forums/f12/

...and simply post a question if a TLD15/20 with 50 pound test is appropriate for baiting large adult thresher sharks off Southern California.

Then go over to Bloody Decks
http://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/

...and once again simply post a question if a TLD15/20 with 50 pound test is appropriate for baiting large adult thresher sharks off Southern California.

Just put up the posts then link us to them here so we can read the responses. I'd do it myself but everyone would know I was full of shit.

Look at it this way. If those tackle recommendations are correct everyone is going to tell you it's great gear and to go fish them, and then you can come back and tell me once again that I don't know what I'm talking about.

This is not about politics. No fair mentioning the article, Me or Drew. It's not popularity contest, it's not about whether people support Dave or United anglers, make it strictly about tackle.

I'd say you better have a thick skin because a lot of people are going to give you a hard time for even suggesting you could take adult threshers one that gear.

Jim

[RedSledTeam]

Sounds like someone wants to 'shoot an elephant with a squirrel gun!'

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by William Novotny

Jim thank you for the awesome read and insight. My rule on the t's is one for the freezer per season, the rest cpr'd. So far all of mine have been of the smaller variety 70ish with a few a bit larger. Looking to up my sizes a bit this year too.

Thanks man. You know it's weird how you always are drawn to respond to the negative crap before the cool posts, but thanks for your reply. The Big Ones are coming soon, they move up the coast faster then you think. You hit the migration right you can't miss them. The key is getting a bait in front of them when they come by.

There is nothing quite like watching a quality T screaming drag of an Tiagra or International, it always sends chills up my spine.

I may skiff fish them this year, as I have some friends who have never caught a big one. I might be willing to try for them from a kayak again just to see if I could do it but I'd want a support boat or take my skiff as a backup.

Jim

[PapaDave]

I am looking to try and catch a 70-100 pound T-Shark this year. I got a baby last year and hooked/lost several others to outfits too small to handle them. I wasn't fishing for them at the time and was not even close to prepared. Hooked one on my ultra light (Sedona 500, 15lb braid) after letting an anchovie drag the surface while fixing my other setup. 30 seconds of absolute amazing gymnastics.

Don't want to keep all that I catch either, one would be fine.

[William Novotny]

Originally Posted by Jim Day

Thanks man. You know it's weird how you always are drawn to respond to the negative crap before the cool posts, but thanks for your reply. The Big Ones are coming soon, they move up the coast faster then you think. You hit the migration right you can't miss them. The key is getting a bait in front of them when they come by.

There is nothing quite like watching a quality T screaming drag of an Tiagra or International, it always sends chills up my spine.

I may skiff fish them this year, as I have some friends who have never caught a big one. I might be willing to try for them from a kayak again just to see if I could do it but I'd want a support boat or take my skiff as a backup.

Jim

Dude, you don't even have to explain about responding to negativity......i know to well. When I say "bigger" im hoping to keep it in the 150-175 range. Im using a.....wait for it.....tld15-20 strummed up with 50# braid. Im down to push my gear to its limits but I honestly don't have enough freezer room and neighbors that I care to share with to keep a bigger t.

[Pat]

Actually I do know what I'm talking about,

Based on what?

So what, you went out in a WFO t-shark bite in Apr/May '07 off Laguna Canyon and caught a few just like every one else.

Anybody thats anybody in fishing knows your a legend in your own mind.

[dorado50]

I'm a nobody and prefer it that way but I do know a few "legends in their own minds" and it ain't fun!

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by Pat

Based on what? So what, you went out in a WFO t-shark bite in Apr/May '07 off Laguna Canyon and caught a few just like every one else.

So I decided to come back and tone this down. I'm not mad I actually find the whole thing pretty comical.

First off.... I honestly don't think I fished T sharks at all in 2007. If I remember it right I still had thresher meat in the freezer when they came through. That might of been the year I took Rick's 56 Ocean Sportfisher down from MDR, and put him on a Thresher, but if so we got that fish south off an upwelling down by Dana, with no other boats around. I did fish them in 97, but that's a whole other story and like quality seabass they were a lot harder to catch back then.

I don't fish bites or crowds when it comes to T sharks. I can't think of a single quality T that I've caught when I was within a mile of another boat. You hunt down big Ts like marlin, and you don't fish the crowds like with seabass. Small inshore Ts group up and make bites. Big Ts are always on the move, here to today ten miles up the coast tomorrow. Even when you find them in groups they are usually spaced out maybe fifty to a hundred feet apart, big single fish down on the thermocline always on the move.

The only reason people think they stay in one place is they run into multiple waves of the same migration as the fish move up the coast.

You're obviously not a Big Game fisherman, you think a TLD15 is adequate for them, and for some weird reason you want to tell me I don't know my shit. Fair enough, but I can honestly tell you that anyone with big game fishing experience is going to know you're wrong.

I mean honestly how many Ts have you caught over 200 pounds? How many hours have you followed and trolled for them offshore? How many years have you tracked their migrations up the coast? Where do you get off telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when from what you are saying it's obvious you have no experience with them.

I can post about these larger sharks because I'm actually experienced with them, fished them for decades, and know their behavior.

I mean really..LMAO... a single speed TLD15 or TLD20 is not a big game reel. Everyone and anyone who fishes Big game knows this. Shimano knows this. They would never even recommend these reels for this application. It's just kinda ridiculous.

Speaking of real stuff versus web smack... This is what happens when you fish graphite framed TLD's for Adult T sharks:


I just took this pic a few minutes ago, and that reel in the middle upside down is my TLD25 with a cracked frame that was broken when a friend of mine hook an adult T with it then tried to stop a adult fish with it. It stripped three quarters of the line off the reel and he over tightened the drag and the frame popped. Happens all the time I can give you multiple examples off various boards.

Here's a a closer view:



See how the frame is cracked on the left. Now we in the larger fishing community call that first hand observable experience.

The stress from the harness, at the reel seat it was just to much for the composite and it snapped the foot. I know this happens because not only have a seen it happen to others but it happened to my own stupid reel, and I'm the one who's to drive over to shimano and get a new free frame. That damage is exactly why no-one with any real TLD reel experience fishes Adult Ts with graphite framed Shimanos. I love the reels, I own over a dozen of them but they are not built strong enough to fish for Adult Ts.

Now the reel next to it on the left is a different story. That is a TLD30 a 2speed version of the TLD 25 that has been upgraded with a superior drag, aluminum handle, and a aluminum frame.

One sweet reel and theoretically capable for T's up to around maybe 250 pounds. I still do not consider it an adult T reel, and don't use it for them. I like it for bait and hundred pound YFT, and it's alright for smaller Ts, but if I'm going with a reel that size for bigger fish I prefer a Daiwa SLD30-II (there's one in the back somewhere, I own four) because it has smoother gearing at low speed when the drag setting is over 18 pounds, and is better for cranking up from straight down.

That said I prefer Tiagra or International two speeds for most adult T fishing and if there are big fish over 300 pounds around I only fish 50 two speeds with 150 pound spectra for reasons that you'd find boring or pretentious.

So I'm now a legend in my own mind....hmmmm...... Well you know what they say: "In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king."

Hey how are those threads going at Marlin Nut and BD???? SCMO may be our local big game site but it has big game fishing talent posting from all over the world, and they will give you the straight dope. They will tell you straight up, that a TLD15 or TLD20 is not a big game reel (they were originally deigned for 15 and 20 pound) and that adult Ts are big game, trust me I know.

Jim

[lowprofile]

well this was fun.

i have a few set ups and a couple days on the books. i think ill see what i can pull off.