Next MLPA meeting--April 28 (Tues) in Oxnard

[dsafety]

After reading the posts above, I can sense the frustration but am not getting a clear picture of what we are up against. I understand the incredible uselessness of the bureaucracy but what are they doing specifically as they try to force this thing down our throats?

I have not yet attended one of these meetings. I will do whatever it takes to make the next one. (It sounds like I better come unarmed in order to avoid an unseemly incident). What I would like to know is how and why the opposition seems to be gaining ground against all logic.

Please educate me.

Bob

[Tman]

The 'eel grass' issue Matt is referring to, even the MLPAI (one of the member of their so called I Team) even called it, no chit, 'seal grass'....

hmmm...Freudian slip, maybe?

It was so easy to read between the lines of what they were saying.

And in the end of the "seal grass" discussion, one of the 'I Team' even admitted that they need more input from people that have closer access to viewing the eel grass, so in essence, what they are saying is that they are making assumptions since they don't have the time nor the inclination to actually pursue the facts they throw out there...this coming after a diver enlightened them on the fact that there is not a problem with the abundance of 'seal grass'...

I jotted many notes (yes I'm a freak), and some of the comments from the Task Force was unreal.

Such as the comment of kelp habitat studies, and a comment being made how "plans change overnight"...then a Mr. Evan Fox chiming in claiming it was a month long study, but concerns should be addressed to the scientific study board...who were conspicuously absent....hmmm..

Or the Kelp Habitat Evaluation, and how each party was not given sufficient time to prepare a defense or argument, relegating it to a later discussion time because no science advisory board members were present. hmmmm...

Then a Dr. Murray touched on the issue later, on the importance of kelp habitat to the eco structure. ie rock formations for kelp to flourish, sandy bottoms not conducive to kelp forests, eel grass and the abundance of kelp. According to his assessment (and his assistant), shouldn't LJ be very healthy and sustainable to life?

The only time LJ kelp is affected is when the kelp cutters come through and back down on the kelp. Was that even entered into the equation?

Again, hmmmm...

One postive - the comment of one Melissa Miller-Hansen ( I could be wrong on the name, 2 placards in front of her) who said, " If we show proof since we are on the water more, that the kelp and sea(eel) grass is healthy, that needs to be brought to our attention."

Last but not least, for all of you who have a passive, hopefulness attitude and choose to stand by, know this.....

The power to change MLPA's, are the DFG, CA Dept of Parks & Rec, a Long Term Monitoring Program (set in place), and an Outreach Education Plan (set in place), plus an 'Adaptive Management Process', are the powers involved to review and re-evaluate to see how the process is functioning statewide......

After 5 YEARS!!!!

If I am wrong about this, someone please correct me...
If I am not wrong, then I guess I took too many notes.

By the way, all meetings are recorded....

[Law Hand]

For Clay.

"Go at it boldly, and you'll find unexpected forces closing round you and coming to your aid"


Thank you for having the courage and the dedication

[PAL]

You guys were awesome - good job getting your views across. People noticed. Major props.

Why'd you leave early? We went til 10 PM! Got exciting when 30 RSG members - including MJ and I - presented a letter calling for a pause until the science catches up. More once I get home. We have another tough day ahead.

[Mr Mugu]

JJ, Mike G, and Steve M were a couple of the
local guys that showed.

Heard from the ladies that Pierpont represented
at the mixer!

Big thanks to everyone!
/MJ

[Dan]

sounds like you guys did a great job. thanks. when/where precisely is the next meeting??

[bellcon]

Being self-employed and a father of 4
free time is hard to come by (I wasn't fishing)
I wish I could have been there with you guys
and I apprieciate your efforts more than words can express
I WILL MAKE A MEETING THATS A PROMISE!

For now:
I was so impressed and inspired by Clays efforts that
I will be making another $ donation to the cause today
In his honor

Thanks Again to all of you who went
Thanks to Paul and MJ for their continued efforts
Thanks to Chris and Steve and others for pumpin up the troops
all of you!

P.S-
that video of Clay just stole best post of the year in my book!
Clay... youda Man!

[tylerdurden]

Next meeting:

May 20, 2009
Work Session*
Doubletree Hotel Santa Ana
201 East MacArthur Blvd.
Santa Ana, CA 92707 May 21, 2009
Doubletree Hotel Santa Ana
201 East MacArthur Blvd.
Santa Ana, CA 92707
Don't know which day the public comment period is on. It will be posted soon though so everyone can plan.

[Mr Mugu]

First day is a work session, so Public comment should be on the 21st.

[Holy Mackerel]

Originally Posted by PAL

You guys were awesome - good job getting your views across. People noticed. Major props.

Why'd you leave early? We went til 10 PM! Got exciting when 30 RSG members - including MJ and I - presented a letter calling for a pause until the science catches up. More once I get home. We have another tough day ahead.

Paul, I need some details! After getting up at 3:30am, ~5pm was all I could handle!

Time to rally our base, as you can see from the testimony above this process is inherently flawed.

One portion went something like this...

RSG Member: "why are we getting this big stack of scientific information the day before this meeting, shouldn't have time to review it, so we know what we are talking about before we can make a decision."

BRTF Member: "You really don't need to know that information"

Btw, must give Matt Fallon, our gregarious one, props for delivering our message. We pulled our time together, to give one strong single message, rather than repeating ourselves. We can use this strategy next time. Others all contributed their time, on different angles we could not get in our 3minutes of ceded time. It was a plus to have one strong single message, then other voices speaking on their own, to show there were more than one of us, and other perspectives.

chris

[fryguy]

I've worked as an environmental chemist for years, and I can tell you that there are only two reasons that the scientific data was presented with inadequate time for its review.

1. The science is crap. How good is a science team if they can't put together good evidence until the deadline. The data must've been rushed or they are just incompetent. Either way, there is no way that they performed a thorough study. I'd like to see them admit this.

2. It was a Phillip-Morris-type agenda driven study where facts are cherry picked and opposing data is omitted. They are aware of the subjectivity driving the study and know that it would be easily noticed under adequate review. If this is the case, they ought to be ashamed of calling themselves scientists and an investigation into the cause of their subjectivity is required.

I'm an ass cause I didn't make the meeting, but I would've flipped over a pretentious comment like "You don't need to know about that".

We need publicity... lets call Turko.

[SeaDog]

The whole process is in many ways brilliant by those who would love to eliminate fishing. They have the legislative authority to shut down large portions of fishing grounds and are pushing hard to complete the process before those most affected have the time to organize and provide counter arguments.

They also seem to understand that closing certain areas will be more effective in reducing fishing because they will reduce access. These areas are targeted for closure while other areas that are similar in geography and biological makeup are not considered.

The science presented was incomplete and largely inconclusive. I don't mean to say that a college professor with a hand full of students looking at a small amount of data and previous models is incompetent, I just don't think it's sufficient data to warrant endangering the lifestyle and livelihoods of many Californians.

Any working model should be constantly measuring the error between predicted results and estimated results. The only clear predictions I heard were not quantifiable. When questions were asked for clear predictions and expectations for the closures, they were immediately dismissed.

I guess my point is there were groups and individuals that painted fishermen as ignorant people who want to kill all the fish and environment they live in. At least one speaker accused us of ruining the chances for our children to fish. Fishermen are not stupid, ignorant people, but what we seem to be is complacent and maybe even lazy. We are about to lose a lot with little justification but the large majority of us are just standing by unwilling to participate.

-the other Josh

[Corey]

Thanks for going & speaking, guys. I have May 21 off work to head to Santa Ana for the next one.

[Holy Mackerel]

Originally Posted by SeaDog

I guess my point is there were groups and individuals that painted fishermen as ignorant people who want to kill all the fish and environment they live in. At least one speaker accused us of ruining the chances for our children to fish. Fishermen are not stupid, ignorant people, but what we seem to be is complacent and maybe even lazy. We are about to lose a lot with little justification but the large majority of us are just standing by unwilling to participate.

-the other Josh

Other Josh, very good to meet you, thank you for showing up. Great ponits, next time you are going to the podium!!! Raising these concerns about the science, and implementation of MLPA vis a vis its methodology needs to be communicated.

I think most kayakers are conscientious, and have a close tie to our environment, being inches from the water, we have an intimate relationship with the ocean, and it's ecology. One of the early PM shifters, once told me, "kayaking is like riding a bike through the neighborhood, you see so much more, than driving your car through it."

We need to show up, and show we are not the ignorant, "LEAVE MY FAVORITE FISHING HOLE OPEN," Fishermen, but thoughtful anglers, who have a connection, and vested interest in our fishery.

chris

[dsafety]

Originally Posted by SeaDog

The whole process is in many ways brilliant by those who would love to eliminate fishing. They have the legislative authority to shut down large portions of fishing grounds and are pushing hard to complete the process before those most affected have the time to organize and provide counter arguments.

They also seem to understand that closing certain areas will be more effective in reducing fishing because they will reduce access. These areas are targeted for closure while other areas that are similar in geography and biological makeup are not considered.

The science presented was incomplete and largely inconclusive. I don't mean to say that a college professor with a hand full of students looking at a small amount of data and previous models is incompetent, I just don't think it's sufficient data to warrant endangering the lifestyle and livelihoods of many Californians.

Any working model should be constantly measuring the error between predicted results and estimated results. The only clear predictions I heard were not quantifiable. When questions were asked for clear predictions and expectations for the closures, they were immediately dismissed.

I guess my point is there were groups and individuals that painted fishermen as ignorant people who want to kill all the fish and environment they live in. At least one speaker accused us of ruining the chances for our children to fish. Fishermen are not stupid, ignorant people, but what we seem to be is complacent and maybe even lazy. We are about to lose a lot with little justification but the large majority of us are just standing by unwilling to participate.

-the other Josh

Josh's comments are dead on. While I will confess to not being as well educated on this issue as most of you leading the fight, it seems to me that the entire MLPA process is being rushed into. The people pushing this thing do not have a clue, (seal grass?). From what I can tell, the science is bad and the research is extremely incomplete.

These issues, along with the other elephants in the room, (the cost of managing the program and damage to local economies), should be more widely publicized.

While I am sure that it is very important to continue to attend these meetings and try to hammer home our points of view, we need to somehow get the rest of the population into the game. The number of people in California who have even heard of the MLPA is probably a small fraction of one percent, yet if this thing goes through, it will affect hundreds of thousands of us.

Compare this issue to the current swine flu scare. By my count there have been less than 100 cases identified in the US so far but the nightly news is dominated by coverage of this issue and has been for days. My point is that we have to somehow raise the visibility of the MLPA issue and get the public's attention. If we fail to do so, the bureaucrats will end up making uninformed decisions behind closed doors and we will lose something extremely valuable.

Bob

[so cal shaggy]

Guys, again I cannot thank you for showing up this was a big showing for all consumptive groups. All of you have caught on quite quickly that this process is moving at warp speed with no show of it slowing down for the data to catch up. This whole process is flawed and what is the most frustrating part is that the 1,000 lb. gorilla in the room (pollution) is not being addressed for example if the propossed full closures take affect nothing is going to get better. If they take the fishermen off the water and the spearfishermen out of the water the kelp is not going to grow again and the reason being is that the water quality is not optimum for the kelp to grow back. Another example of unmanaged closures which have not worked are the abalone in Laguna, Newport and Dana point, abalone in the orange county area have been a zero take species since 1981 but I can personally say that there are still hardly any abalone in these areas. The reason for this is that abalone are sensitive to water quality at catalina however within the last few years there are abalone everywhere why, because the water quality out at the islands is better than along the coast. Therefore no matter how much you tell us we cannot harvest or touch them unless the water is cleaned up they will not come back same for the kelp, in Crystal Cove there has been an ongoing kelp restoration project (7 years now) to try and bring back the dense kelp beds in that area and through seeding of the reefs and stopping urban runoff in the area (all runoff in that area is channeled into catch basins which are sent to the treatment plant for the area rather than just flowing into the ocean)has been stopped or drastically reduced to a minnimum and as a result the water in the stretch of Crystal Cove is cleaner than the water in Laguna and the kelp in that area has made a drastic comeback it is the thickest I have seen it in nearly 20 years. These are examples of good management of an area but full coastal closures with no followup management program guidlines established before creating the closure is just going to do more damage than good.

Thanks,
Jeff

[Holy Mackerel]

Jeff, thanks again for the info, please continue to post on these MLPA threads over here, it is helpful to get everyone's input from all groups. Yes, that was astounding to hear from the BRFT, that water quality was not the primary mission of the MLPA. It is mind boggling that water quality is not central, along with all other factors, to the ecosystem's sustainability.

chris

[so cal shaggy]

Chris, thanks for giving me the heads up to post on this board. I am trying to see if I can get a MLPA 101 workshop put on for your guys to get an easy understanding of what this whole process is about you might have to settle for an MLPA 102 workshop but I will make sure you guys get the information in an easy to undstertand way because I know how difficult it is to come into this and read through the act itself it is just too much to take in. Give me a week and I will see what I can arrange.

Thanks again all of you guys.

Jeff

[kurt]

Thanks for posting up those petitions. I've already got my whole company to sign. Everyone, please print those out and get some autographs. If you've ever given fish to anyone, get them to sign. I'm sure they appreciate your fishing grounds.

It was good to see some familiar faces at the meeting yesterday. Hope to see more at the next one.

Paul, sorry I left early. If it was closer to home, I would've stuck it out. How long did the comment session last?

[Mr Mugu]

Ask and ye shall receive!
Gee thanks alot guys! :lol:

Hot off the press, they've added Tuesday May 19th to our meeting schedule. So we'll be in Santa Ana the 19th, 20th, and 21st.

This meeting has a LARGE chunk of time devoted to YOU!!

We'll be meeting at 1pm for a work session, then break for dinner at I believe 5:30, and then we'll have Public Comment from then on.
Again this is for YOU to be heard! And at a reasonable hour for those trying to make a living.

And yes those that spoke yesterday had a very good impact on our work session today.
Again BIG THANKS!

Chris...PM SENT