Hookup Baits - Thoughts?

[ful-rac]

It was the Pacific Star not the Royal Star...

[Denis_Ruso]

Originally Posted by ful-rac

It was the Pacific Star not the Royal Star...

Thank you. Corrected.

[tak100]

Sav-On Tackle has a version of a tube bait that I tried two weeks ago down at La Jolla.

I was amazed at the action. Three rockfish and a calico for that day.

*Full disclosure I was given a free sample of these new baits but I think I was just a lucky customer that asked at the right time and not affiliated with the shop in other way.

In any case there are close alternatives available on the market and these things work.

[Chuck D]

Good information to take into consideration when supporting a business. My future purchases will not include this company. Yes, second chances are of course a nice thing to do if you believe the crime is acceptable enough to forgive...

[dpricenator]

Originally Posted by alanw

I agree with this. I wouldn't let my children play at a convicted sex offender's house once his "debt" is paid.

And neither would I. I also probably would not knowingly let a previous poacher store his catch in my cooler. But if the bait works, it works. So he poached, and paid his debt. That shouldn't mean that he should not be able to operate a business.

I would support legislation that restricted a convicted poacher's ability to get a fishing/hunting license for a period of time. Not that many poachers give crap about being licensed, anyway. I see people taking short fish on the piers all the time. Usually because of ignorance, but most unlicensed fisherman have not taken the time to know what is what and when what fish can be taken.

Some dude was going to keep an 2 foot Leo, in San Clem the other day. I let him know, with as few curse words as possible, that he needed to throw that fish back ASAP. He told me there was no size limit on Leos. I told him to throw it back, then look it up. ANd that If I was wrong, I would buy him a case of beer. He tossed it back and we parted ways. About an hour later he walked back by me, and dropped off a six pack of Ballast Point Sculipn IPA, as a way to say thanks for the info. Then I told him alcohol was not allowed on the pier. Just kidding, I didn't say that last part.....

[goldenglory18]

I havent tried them personally but as a bass/artificial lure focused angler, I know there is a ton of hype behind the brand.

Would I decide to buy a product based on the history behind the proprietor? Possibly. But I guarantee a lot of Americans are blind to the past of A LOT of the business and people they support. Case and point: Donald.

[Saba Slayer]

Boy Oh Boy...there must be a lot of Angels out there that have never done anything wrong in their lives...I'd like to meet a few of you perfect people...!!!

Never speed, steal, lie, cheat on your taxes, or waste the resources...Yea Right...!!!

This guy poached...He didn't sell drugs, beat someone up, murder someone or steal a car...he poached and payed his dues and he's trying to make a successful business! Give the guy a break or don't buy his product...it's as simple as that...NO NEED TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE...!!!
What is up with some of you guys...you are obviously, way more Holy than me...?!

Thanks GoldenGlory... X2 "But I guarantee a lot of Americans are blind to the past of A LOT of the business and people they support."

[Chuck D]

Considering this is a fishermans forum with a sport we all hold dear to our hearts I am surely not surprised that poaching is a sore spot for all of us. To disregard that in this forum is more surprising then to take it to heart.

Originally Posted by Saba Slayer

Boy Oh Boy...there must be a lot of Angels out there that have never done anything wrong in their lives...I'd like to meet a few of you perfect people...!!!

Never speed, steal, lie, cheat on your taxes, or waste the resources...Yea Right...!!!

This guy poached...He didn't sell drugs, beat someone up, murder someone or steal a car...he poached and payed his dues and he's trying to make a successful business! Give the guy a break or don't buy his product...it's as simple as that...NO NEED TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE...!!!
What is up with some of you guys...you are obviously, way more Holy than me...?!

Thanks GoldenGlory... X2 "But I guarantee a lot of Americans are blind to the past of A LOT of the business and people they support."

[ProfessorLongArms]

I fish 120 and deeper. My truck is more with the fact that it’s a 4 ounce jig that costs $20. Gtfo.

To those of you snidely lambasting Denis for somewhat innocuously starting a conversation without any real commentary, you realize you’re doing the exact thing you’re giving him shit for, right? You realize that, right? Right?

Online forums have their tropes in spades... You’re being one. Don’t be that guy. It makes it less fun for the rest of us.

[ProfessorLongArms]

Also since we are on a forum for sportsmen, I’m sure we have no shortage of libertarians here :-)

Capitalist society, guys. When you start a business, you build a brand.
You market that brand. That brand sells your product.

Your brand is subject to scrutiny. I say scrutinize away.

Personally, I don’t fish with poachers. I think it’s an easy choice to make and I think it can be telling of character.

I’m not here to pass judgment on the guy who owns the company, but I’m damn sure not here to pass judgment on the guy who shared the information about the guy who owns the company.

[Mr. NiceGuy]

Originally Posted by Denis_Ruso

Thread was started for discussion, kind the point of a forum. Take the hypocrisy elsewhere.

Ok, I'm still thinking about your choice of words and what it might have to do with anything we are talking about in this forum of public opinion.

Since you requested a discussion, I would like to contribute some further thoughts.


Given:

We have laws defined and imposed on us by people who work for the government in government provided jobs with government provided infrastructure and budgets (buildings, offices, fresh new trucks and boats with lots of gadgets, endless numbers of computers and expensive new equipment, etc., etc., etc., that is all very eco-unfriendly.)


Given:

We have a so-called "justice" system of prosecutors, defenders and judges that is so damned overloaded with frivolous paper-shuffling that it has almost come to a stand-still, and it has been so bent out of shape by laws and prospecting lawyers that the "justice" of it's original purpose has to a large extent been lost.


Given:

What is or is not "poaching" is defined by law, mostly by ever-growing bureaucracies that keep expanding to justify their purpose and keep hiring more and more people into government jobs that cost far more than they produce, and that consume vast amounts of precious resources very inefficiently in the process. Both natural resources consumed and polluted or destroyed by their infrastructure, and societal resources in terms of over-taxation and over-regulation of the private sector that supports their very expensive parasitic existence.


Given:

As human beings, if humanity is to survive, we have a higher level of moral laws to consider seriously and wisely. These are laws of nature, or laws under God, or laws of what's right and wrong in living together as a society and a culture in ways that might help us secure a better future for ourselves and for humanity that follows after we are gone. As human beings we have the ability to ponder and perhaps understand the importance of protecting and managing the environment in which we live. This includes our environment in nature, in application of the knowledge and experience we accumulate as individuals, in the institutions of civil society that helps bind and lubricate us together as a nation of citizens and as a culture, and our environment of crass politics of ego, greed and power that bends everything the hell out of shape.


Therefore:

To this end, we must do our best to recognize and make personal decisions and personal choices to the best of our ability that will preserve, replace and build further the precious resources that sustain us, and that will improve our chances of managing and surviving into the future as nations, as cultures and as humans beings.

Whether what we have done is defined as dastardly "poaching" (spitooey!) or legal sport fishing because of some piece of paper we paid for, or because of what side of some arbitrary line we might be on, why are we destroying the lives of so many magnificent living creatures at all? Why do we hunt and fish with such lust and passion to turn the natural wildlife around us into tasty fish tacos?

When we catch a 21" fish that must be 22" according to law, and we throw it back on the water to die or to be scooped up by a bird, which technical laws of some government bureaucracy have we obeyed and which moral laws of nature have we broken, ... or not? Where is our proper position in the food chain and under the laws of Natural Selection and Darwinism. After all, we are born as omnivores, right? So is it our natural purpose to kill and be killed? Perhaps this is where the word "hypocrisy" might come in. This is something we have to define for ourselves.

After someone has been arrested, tried and punished under government regulations and laws, why is it then proper, or moral or just to rehash this subject again in the court of public opinion by dredging up an old character assassination propaganda article by the National Park Service because you could link it to the name of an individual who is local and among us as a fellow fishing enthusiast, and then attack him again by calling out the name of his business and livelihood in the title of this thread? The work he does in his business not only helps support him and his family, but by surviving in the private sector, he no doubt pays huge amounts of taxes (direct, indirect and hidden), that help support the bloated armies of government workers who do little or nothing to support themselves at very great expense to taxpayers and a free society in general.

Obviously you have stirred up some passions here and you have several people who want to support your call for a boycott to punish this person further. Again, we have to ponder and decide for ourselves what is right or wrong, legally and morally, and how we want to define our own lives as good citizens and thoughtful human beings who are trying to do the right things in life. Thinking about the meaning of hypocrisy and how it might apply to the conversation of this thread is good food for thought. No doubt about that.

Technically, legally, as far as attacking a person's reputation and trying to destroy the income of his business, and knowing the way lawyers like to stir things up with the kinds of leverage they can apply, I would guess you are already in the legal gray zone here. If I was the target of your personal attack myself, I might want to rightfully lash back, legally and morally, to protect myself, my family, my business and my means of support. Just trying to see the bigger picture here and avoid making problems worse.

This shit flies all directions and can splatter everyone. Opinions vary widely.

Lets go destroy more old, huge, beautiful, delicious, innocent fish legally.
Fish tacos, yay!


[/sarcasm]

[/morning coffee]


Seriously, have a nice day

Life is sweet. Live and let live.


Keep it moist

[Hunters Pa]

I'd rather boycott Hewlett Packard, REI and Stone Mountain Brewing for their support of MLPAs. And now Dicks for their anti-2nd amendment activities.

And when Stone Mountain says they did not know the group they were funding was actively campaigning for closure, well, that is 180 degrees from their credo of lambasting those that are "being led by the nose".

As previously said, I have more issue with the price tag. I have enough gear for fish to ignore.

[Denis_Ruso]

Originally Posted by Mr. NiceGuy

Ok, I'm still thinking about your choice of words and what it might have to do with anything we are talking about in this forum of public opinion.

Since you requested a discussion, I would like to contribute some further thoughts.


Given:

We have laws defined and imposed on us by people who work for the government in government provided jobs with government provided infrastructure and budgets (buildings, offices, fresh new trucks and boats with lots of gadgets, endless numbers of computers and expensive new equipment, etc., etc., etc., that is all very eco-unfriendly.)


Given:

We have a so-called "justice" system of prosecutors, defenders and judges that is so damned overloaded with frivolous paper-shuffling that it has almost come to a stand-still, and it has been so bent out of shape by laws and prospecting lawyers that the "justice" of it's original purpose has to a large extent been lost.


Given:

What is or is not "poaching" is defined by law, mostly by ever-growing bureaucracies that keep expanding to justify their purpose and keep hiring more and more people into government jobs that cost far more than they produce, and that consume vast amounts of precious resources very inefficiently in the process. Both natural resources consumed and polluted or destroyed by their infrastructure, and societal resources in terms of over-taxation and over-regulation of the private sector that supports their very expensive parasitic existence.


Given:

As human beings, if humanity is to survive, we have a higher level of moral laws to consider seriously and wisely. These are laws of nature, or laws under God, or laws of what's right and wrong in living together as a society and a culture in ways that might help us secure a better future for ourselves and for humanity that follows after we are gone. As human beings we have the ability to ponder and perhaps understand the importance of protecting and managing the environment in which we live. This includes our environment in nature, in application of the knowledge and experience we accumulate as individuals, in the institutions of civil society that helps bind and lubricate us together as a nation of citizens and as a culture, and our environment of crass politics of ego, greed and power that bends everything the hell out of shape.


Therefore:

To this end, we must do our best to recognize and make personal decisions and personal choices to the best of our ability that will preserve, replace and build further the precious resources that sustain us, and that will improve our chances of managing and surviving into the future as nations, as cultures and as humans beings.

Whether what we have done is defined as dastardly "poaching" (spitooey!) or legal sport fishing because of some piece of paper we paid for, or because of what side of some arbitrary line we might be on, why are we destroying the lives of so many magnificent living creatures at all? Why do we hunt and fish with such lust and passion to turn the natural wildlife around us into tasty fish tacos?

When we catch a 21" fish that must be 22" according to law, and we throw it back on the water to die or to be scooped up by a bird, which technical laws of some government bureaucracy have we obeyed and which moral laws of nature have we broken, ... or not? Where is our proper position in the food chain and under the laws of Natural Selection and Darwinism. After all, we are born as omnivores, right? So is it our natural purpose to kill and be killed? Perhaps this is where the word "hypocrisy" might come in. This is something we have to define for ourselves.

After someone has been arrested, tried and punished under government regulations and laws, why is it then proper, or moral or just to rehash this subject again in the court of public opinion by dredging up an old character assassination propaganda article by the National Park Service because you could link it to the name of an individual who is local and among us as a fellow fishing enthusiast, and then attack him again by calling out the name of his business and livelihood in the title of this thread? The work he does in his business not only helps support him and his family, but by surviving in the private sector, he no doubt pays huge amounts of taxes (direct, indirect and hidden), that help support the bloated armies of government workers who do little or nothing to support themselves at very great expense to taxpayers and a free society in general.

Obviously you have stirred up some passions here and you have several people who want to support your call for a boycott to punish this person further. Again, we have to ponder and decide for ourselves what is right or wrong, legally and morally, and how we want to define our own lives as good citizens and thoughtful human beings who are trying to do the right things in life. Thinking about the meaning of hypocrisy and how it might apply to the conversation of this thread is good food for thought. No doubt about that.

Technically, legally, as far as attacking a person's reputation and trying to destroy the income of his business, and knowing the way lawyers like to stir things up with the kinds of leverage they can apply, I would guess you are already in the legal gray zone here. If I was the target of your personal attack myself, I might want to rightfully lash back, legally and morally, to protect myself, my family, my business and my means of support. Just trying to see the bigger picture here and avoid making problems worse.

This shit flies all directions and can splatter everyone. Opinions vary widely.

Lets go destroy more old, huge, beautiful, delicious, innocent fish legally.
Fish tacos, yay!


[/sarcasm]

[/morning coffee]


Seriously, have a nice day

Life is sweet. Live and let live.

This was surprisingly candid and I appreciate your contribution to the discussion. I am with on the most of the "givens" of your post. I too agree with the gray area of law and interpretation of law stemming from bureaucracy.

To answer your question on why bring it up is because that's the best way to develop ideas for me. To discuss them and be open to outside opinion. Reading the article, a judgement is made by pooling other peoples experiences, knowledge and opinions I am better able to make a better judgement.

That being said a little ways into the "Therefore" I still understand where you're coming from but would like to add.


There's a difference in grey area offences that tread the line and clear disregard for the line. Here comes another OPINION, its not necessarily about a single offence for me, according to the article the man killed multiple bucks in a protected area (repeated) and claimed records. Well to me that's just plain old cheating and unfair to the other hunters who abide by the law and do not have the same fair chance at the record. I compare this to fishing la jolla during a bay only tournament then coming back to the bay and claiming you caught your 37 lb yellowtail in the bay. But I for one, believe in second chances as I've made mistakes and I do not want to be judged for them but by how I have adjusted my course as a result.

I've actually changed my opinion throughout this thread to a more neutral one, nor boycott nor buy. But there was no way for me to lead to change of opinion without additional information. This is why I appreciate an open discussion and the other guys who actually know what's happened in the last 8 years. Although old news to some, this is new to me as I've never seen or heard it before.

Every consumer has a right to make their own informed decisions and choose what business to support with their hard earned money.

P.S. There is never any call to boycott the product (not my intention), merely stated that I didn't think I would purchase(personal choice) it given the limited information available to me.

Also, I don't consider posting an article and an opinion a personal attack. An attack would be pushing one side of a narrative and I feel I have opened this up for discussion from both sides as well as a ideological debate.

Anyways - hope this comes off right as it often doesn't through written word.

Fish on and Tight Lines.

[Denis_Ruso]

Originally Posted by Hunters Pa

I have enough gear for fish to ignore.

This is gold

Ya'll make me laugh sometimes.

Originally Posted by goldenglory18

I havent tried them personally but as a bass/artificial lure focused angler, I know there is a ton of hype behind the brand.

Would I decide to buy a product based on the history behind the proprietor? Possibly. But I guarantee a lot of Americans are blind to the past of A LOT of the business and people they support. Case and point: Donald.

[Mr. NiceGuy]

Points taken, Denis. I look forward to meeting you in person someday.

[Dirty Curti]

Personally, Thank goodness for second chances! And that's all I needed was a second chance. Learn from your mistakes. Or don't get caught!

Now in regards to the "HOOK-UP BAITS"... I do a lot of surf fishing as well so I use these artificials on the yak and on the beach. But I like Lucky Craft's more when on the beach. So when I go surf fishing my Son has a Hook-up bait and I have the LC to see what is biting what. So far this year I am skunked and my Son has three Halibut.

We also tried them on the water in the lagoon (C'bad) and he went for about 10 fish and I caught 1.

So they do work.

I like talking more about fishing than politics...Just sayin'.

[erinoo]

Originally Posted by stevie951

I politely disagree. Anyone whom poaches knowingly and is prosecuted should be banned from ever obtaining a recreational license of any type in their lifetime.. If this were the case, and we all knew, do you think people would still Poach? Not nearly as many!!

I know all to well about paying your debt to society. He's making good.

[nagami]

great article,thanks for sharing

[Tekniks]

Everyone gets a second chance to do right. Doesnt stop me from using the baits as long as I know I'm compliant. How about this latest bust by the DFG? Will Red Rooster 3 be boycotted by their mistake?


https://www.facebook.com/CaliforniaD...082160/?type=3

[ful-rac]

Originally Posted by Tekniks

Everyone gets a second chance to do right. Doesnt stop me from using the baits as long as I know I'm compliant. How about this latest bust by the DFG? Will Red Rooster 3 be boycotted by their mistake?


https://www.facebook.com/CaliforniaD...082160/?type=3

OUCH!!!!!!!

Probably not.....
Andy Cates is a Legend....I guess we'll see what happens...