5/13 am close encounters of the furry kind

[Afran]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

've been fishing and diving in LJ for 8 years

[madscientist]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

I don't know. I just take exception to some people's rancher mentality that all the wolves and bears should live only in zoos where they won't bother anyone or their food.

Exactly! You don't know and you are assuming you know people's "mentality". No one is advocating a systemic elimination of sea lions, just concern about a particular animal. And LJ kelp is as much of a "ranch" as Balboa Park.

[aguachico]

I like the way the sealions swin off really fast in the Cortez when I paddle towards them. . Mexican Marine Protection Act.

[Earl E. Retire]

SF, there's a natural ecosystem activity taking place here... If the only fishermen in LJ were other seals, knothead would have to challenge them for food. The peers would try to do painful things to knothead so they could keep their food. Instead, knothead is a protected species and has found an easier way to scrounge a meal than fighting his own kind for it. Yak fishermen are only doing the same thing as the peer dogs would do -- fighting back. As long as they fight fair (i.e., don't use methods that will harm other things or people in the process, don't break laws), the fishermen have every right to fight to deter knothead from being overly aggressive around them.
SF, just because you haven't had a bad experience with a dog doesn't mean other people who have been intimidated by knothead have to share your live and let live perspective. If I want to fight the furry bastard for my fish, then I have every right to.
EER

[yellowtail55]

Originally Posted by madscientist

I'm thinking about getting a slingshot but I'm not completely sure it would do anything other than piss him off. Might try from a boat, not sure from the yak.

I'll be sure to bring mine on saturday

[jscott]

In malibu, I have had a bird steal my bait a couple times....many times they get snagged...and I do my best to release them unharmed. Benefit here is-- bird learns a lesson. The sea lions up there are curious around yakkers-- but have not been a problem. They stay a reasonable distance away-- if they get a little close-- a paddle slap on the water keeps them away. I don't believe I have had baits stolen up there from them. In fact, I regularly hang fish over the side-- such as bass, rockfish that I am taking home. When I hear a sea lion in the vicinity, I merely pick up the clip and toss in the back.
I have heard at least 3 stories over the last year or so of kayakfisherman getting fish stolen and yaks flipped in LJ. I never hang fish there. Knothead specifically, after seeing him in action-- merely cruises all the kayakfisherman, fearless-- picks up the baits (behind the hook leaving heads only on the hook)...then goes to next yakker. He does his rounds-- very successful. Smart guy-- and without any consequences from us==> will continue to do the same. In MS's story with the trap hook-- I bet the dog didn't like that one. I would bet, if all yakkers used trap rigs, it would slow him down. Unfortunately, I don't know what that would do for bait presentation for yellows/wsb--> may not be the way to go. This is no longer a 'wild' creature...it has become domesticated and expects a free meal. Unfortunately, when your pet dog jumps up on the table when you are eating, and you smack him on the nose-- no-one calls you an animal hater! You are training the animal to act appropriately. Why the issue in the case of the sea lion? Most suggestions here are non-lethal to TRAIN the animal to find another source of food.
Just my 2cents.
-scott

[madscientist]

I don't think the knothead even cares about the occassional hook in his mouth. Tyler hooked him earlier that day and I've hooked him many times. He usually avoids the hook but I figure his mouth must be pure scar tissue so he may not even care that much. In the past I've hooked him, tugged free, and had him come right back for more. He's definitely a tough mofo, I'll give him that.

[SDdude]

I've been carrying a wrist-rocket with me since they became legal, although I have not yet had an opportunity to use it on the water. Although some believe it's unwise, I do intend to use it against knothead or any other aggressive sea lion that comes within a few feet of me with obvious bad intent. I'm hoping that he'll respect the pain, and come to associate pain with kayak fisherman. Lupus non mordet lupum.

If it results in my demise and someone finds me face-down tangled in the kelp belds, let it be known that I bequeath my kayak to my daughter Sommer, and my fishing gear and electronics (if recovered) to my friend Brian who is responsible for introducing me to kayak fishing in the first place.

Wish me luck.

--Raleigh

[Ed]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

My only point is that I've come across plenty of floating sea lions in my time out on the water that were shot by some fisherman who didn't want them around.

I have been fishing offshore San Diego for over forty years and have seen some dead sea dogs, but never one I could tell was shot. Lots of things can kill a sea lion, including old age, disease and starvation. What is your definition of plenty?. Come on, sounds like a huge exaggeration. Is it just where I'm fishing, or do all you guys see shot dogs regularly?. Yeah, right. The feds made slingshots legal for a reason, and they are the ones in charge of protecting the beasts. As for being afraid of pissing one off with my slingshot, the next one that gets too close to my yak gets a new beauty mark. If it pisses him off, he gets another beauty mark. There's a pattern there.

[Tman]

I like barking at his arse....think it confuses him.

He's not a very good dog either, doesn't even know how to fetch.
Every time I toss an iron to him, he just takes off the other way......

[Sarcastic Fringehead]

Originally Posted by Ed

I have been fishing offshore San Diego for over forty years and have seen some dead sea dogs, but never one I could tell was shot. Lots of things can kill a sea lion, including old age, disease and starvation. What is your definition of plenty?. Come on, sounds like a huge exaggeration. Is it just where I'm fishing, or do all you guys see shot dogs regularly?. Yeah, right. The feds made slingshots legal for a reason, and they are the ones in charge of protecting the beasts. As for being afraid of pissing one off with my slingshot, the next one that gets too close to my yak gets a new beauty mark. If it pisses him off, he gets another beauty mark. There's a pattern there.

It's actually not an exaggeration. But since you clearly think I have no idea what I'm talking about, why don't you ask a colleague of mine, Jim Carretta (who's been conducting pinniped and cetacean population studies for NMFS out of the La Jolla office) how many sea lions they come across on a yearly basis in S. Cal. that are dead as the result of gunshot wounds. Then after you get that number, and it's a big one, keep in mind it represents only a small fraction of the actual total, since the ones that are logged are only those that were floating and were observed. But that's a different debate. Use a slingshot if you feel inclined.

[Ed]

I didn't question how many shot sea lions researchers get turned in. I question you seeing them on any kind of a regular basis when fishing. How many have you reported to authorities?. Got any pics you have taken?. I spend a lot of time on the water and have for many years. I believe you are exaggerating and at the same time you are blaming anglers for these fantasy kills. That plays right into the hands of PETA. If you want to FU the future of our sport, keep making crap up and blaming it on anglers. And you never answered the question, how many shot dogs do YOU see? Where?. FYI - Most of those floating dogs you see are sleeping, even the ones with the flipper sticking straight up.

lol

[Sarcastic Fringehead]

That is funny. I guess my only time on the water that counts is from a kayak in La Jolla? And the ones with the gunshot wounds that are discovered were shot by non-anglers? Interesting. You make some great points. I'm a marine biologist by the way, and do, believe it or not, happen to know the difference between a sleeping and dead pinniped. I said it's lame to kill them. I didn't accuse kayakers of being the ones shooting them- though I've read plenty of posts from people who've said they'd like to. Say whatever you want...I'm done with this arguement.

[Ed]

So how many have you seen working or fishing?. You are deliberately evasive. You also blamed anglers again, and I'm not just talking about yakfishers but all anglers. There are a lot of ocean users and boat and property owners who don't like sea lions. Any biologist worth his salt knows that. There are also twisted individuals that just like to shoot things. You stated you've seen plenty of sea lions shot by some fisherman. A biologist should have a least some data to back up their rhetoric. You know, numbers, a bios stock and trade. What makes you so sure it was anglers? You can't even confirm how many you've seen. Sounds like you have an antifishing agenda. I suspect you are an emotional technician in training rather than a seasoned biologist. I can understand why you don't want to dig your hole any deeper.

[lambadmin]

Take a note new gang…

3 subjects with high likelihood to result in lively discussions on kayak fishing boards:

-Eating calicos
-GW shark
-Seals – kill ‘em or not…




C’mon Ed and Sarcastic Fringehead…

Old BWE material, both registered in 2005….

Sign up for WCW and come fish with us tomorrow.

Finish your seal discussion over a burger and a cold soda (sorry, no beer allowed in the park).

Crap, I said to myself I was going to stop lobbying for WCW…

[Afran]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

Say whatever you want...I'm done with this arguement.

[dgax65]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fringehead

I think most people seem to be unaware that the sea lions are there to fish also. Like I said, everyone makes a huge deal about problem sea lions and how they need to be shot etc. when all they're basically doing is figuring out the best way to get their next meal. Yeah, it's a pain if they're repeatedly stealing bait or posturing for you to get out of their space. But I think the public menace/ imminent threat status that most kayak fisherman are giving them is going a bit far. I've been fishing and diving in LJ for 8 years and aside from having a 20 lbs. pup try to leap aboard, or having the occasional bait stolen, I've never had an issue, nor have I ever heard of any kayak being upset by one or anyone being bitten out on the water. Maybe it could happen, but it seems highly unlikely- and my guess is that if it does, the person probably brought it on. Just my two cents. Fish and enjoy the wildlife.

Yes, we are in their habitat. Yes, they are just trying to eat. Yes, humans are just evil by nature and all animals are pure and sweet. That is a little simplistic. We have upset the balance of nature with sea lions twice; first by nearly hunting them to extinction and then by giving them absolute protection that has resulted in their population dramatically expanding while removing any fear of humans. A balance somewhere in between needs to be struck.
I wouldn't disagree with you that sea lion get shot by some fishermen. As their numbers increased, sea lion began having a significant impact on commercial and recreational fishing. While their population recovered from dangerously low levels, the law didn't change. Fishermen, dock and boat owners were faced with more and more sea lion damage and depredation and they had no legal recourse to deal with the problem. There was little rational response to the growing problem of human/sea lion interaction. Bears, cougars, wolves, coyotes, feral dogs, and any other land predators are dealt with quickly when they come into contact with humans. Yet fisherman and boat owners are just told to accept whatever damage that the sea lion might cause. An unresponsive bureaucracy ignores a growing problem until people take the law into their own hands. I'm not condoning that behavior, but if the government had been a little more even handed in dealing with this growing problem then fewer people would feel the need to take independent action. I think that the new rules for dealing with sea lion, while long overdue, are helpful. Hopefully, we don't have to start shooting large numbers of sea lion. If widespread use of non-lethal deterrents teach sea lion to stay away from humans and boats it will be advantageous for both.

BTW: there have been more than a few instances where kayakers have ended up in the water or have had to fight off sea lion.

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...=f%27n+furbags
http://forum.kayak4fish.com/viewtopi...ea+lion+client
http://forum.kayak4fish.com/viewtopi...969&highlight=

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4929124
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...8LMEFM80.shtml
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Sea-L...ns-41338.shtml

[dgax65]

Originally Posted by lambadmin

Take a note new gang…

3 subjects with high likelihood to result in lively discussions on kayak fishing boards:

-Eating calicos
-GW shark
-Seals – kill ‘em or not…

Last time I was out I saw a GWS attack a sea lion that had caught, but not released, a calico. I'm just saying......

[wavster]

Originally Posted by lambadmin

Crap, I said to myself I was going to stop lobbying for WCW…

Keep lobbying Adi! Only 18 hours until lines can be dropped and less than 24 hours until the final whistle blows!

[madscientist]

I've put over 400 days in at LJ in the last couple of years, I know many other friends that fish hard as well, and I have never seen nor known someone who has seen a dead sea lion OTW, gunshot or otherwise.

Wasn't there a story last year of sea lions being killed for their gonads (apparently considered an aphrodiasic in some parts of the world)? Might not just be anglers popping them.