Kayak Sonar Discussion

[chris138]

Originally Posted by jimmyjones

What is a good starting point for settings for hook Five for local Waters 60 to150 ft thank you very much

Hello jimmyjones,

Please refer to post #19. Start there and post your questions or screen shots after you have tried those settings.

[Johnny Hirn]

I am looking at putting my lowrance elite 4x chirp transducer on the lowrance scupper plug mount for better clarity, however, as of now it is currently installed with the goop method. What is the best way of removing the transducer safely.
Tight lines,
Johnny.

[chris138]

Originally Posted by Johnny Hirn

I am looking at putting my lowrance elite 4x chirp transducer on the lowrance scupper plug mount for better clarity, however, as of now it is currently installed with the goop method. What is the best way of removing the transducer safely.
Tight lines,
Johnny.

Johnny,

Shouldn't be too tough... if you used the actual brand "goop" you might have a chance to get it off clean. The key is gonna be not to put big scratches and abrasions on the "business end" of the transducer. That being said, you will probably have to cut it out if you cant just pull it off. When I removed mine back in the day, i got lucky and it all kinda peeled off as one piece. Maybe use some rubbing alcohol or some thing to clean the adhesive off, but i wouldn't get too crazy with the industrial solvents as you might degrade the plastic on the 'ducer, or on your hull. You want to get that thing as clean as possible.

Worst case scenario buy a transducer on ebay. everything else will work fine with the new transducer as long as you get the right one.

[Johnny Hirn]

Originally Posted by chris138

Johnny,

Shouldn't be too tough... if you used the actual brand "goop" you might have a chance to get it off clean. The key is gonna be not to put big scratches and abrasions on the "business end" of the transducer. That being said, you will probably have to cut it out if you cant just pull it off. When I removed mine back in the day, i got lucky and it all kinda peeled off as one piece. Maybe use some rubbing alcohol or some thing to clean the adhesive off, but i wouldn't get too crazy with the industrial solvents as you might degrade the plastic on the 'ducer, or on your hull. You want to get that thing as clean as possible.

Worst case scenario buy a transducer on ebay. everything else will work fine with the new transducer as long as you get the right one.

Thanks for the help!

[ful-rac]

What could this be...?

[Denis_Ruso]

Originally Posted by Johnny Hirn

I am looking at putting my lowrance elite 4x chirp transducer on the lowrance scupper plug mount for better clarity, however, as of now it is currently installed with the goop method. What is the best way of removing the transducer safely.
Tight lines,
Johnny.

Someone else could chime in but when I used plummers putty for my previous install, it helped to warm it up with a blowdryer/heat gun to peel off. You may have luck with the same method removing goop.

[GregAndrew]

Originally Posted by chris138

Hey Gang,

I feel like a lot of people have the same kinds of questions when it comes to sonar... Especially from those folks who have just recently got their first fish finder, or have upgraded or switched brands. In internet forums, you typically want to avoid having a bunch of different threads about the same topic. It makes it hard for people to go back and search for the info they need.

Some of you who have followed me for a while know that I like to offer sonar tips to fellow kayakers when I can. So I thought I would start my own sonar thread, and try to make it more of a centralized location for some of this info.

The format I envision is that people can ask some of their sonar questions here. I'll do my best to check in often, and answer the best I can. Other more experienced members should chime in and address whatever they want, or tear my theories to shreds if you want... I can take it don't worry (;

What the thread is NOT for: Put-downs or trolling others, arguing with others about which brand or product is better than another, online deals or people trying to sell their stuff. I use Lowrance, but I will not try to sell their stuff or try to convince you that it is better than another product. This should be the place for technical discussion and sonar theory.

I'll kick it off with a few sonar tips for beginners, and a few screen shots from my IG archives


1. Try to mount the transducer in the water. Yes, shooting through the hull works, especially if installed by experts like the guys at OEX. I've done it both ways with the same FF and trust me you are losing sensitivity and signal strength. I would go with a RAM boom arm over a through-hull install every time.

2. Use separate power supply for FF and bait tank. This is for obvious reasons, if one system goes down you don't lose the other device. An entry level sonar like an Elite 4x for example uses very little amperage without GPS. The pump will drain batteries fast, especially 12V. Learn how much juice you need for your setup, and size your batteries appropriately.

3. Stuff will corrode, and need to be repaired. Next time you're at OEX or west marine, buy a bunch of extra terminal connectors, heat shrink butt connectors, and wire. Have all that stuff with you at the launch so when your sonar doesn't turn on, you can repair it right then. Make your wiring easily accessible and give yourself extra slack in case you have to cut and reconnect.

Now the "plotter porn"

Kamakazi Yellowtail!



Fatty Homeguard Dives on my Dropper.



Slug Halibut Stacked Like Pancakes!



Looks like WSB to me... what do you think?



School of YT breezing through mid column, out on the periphery of the cone.

I would have a few different interpretations on these.
Photo 1, I would agree with.
Photo 2, could be a YT, WSB or even a Sea Lion. I would go with what I caught or saw.
Photo 3, I would not guess Halibut unless you have your colorline very high. They are a demersal fish with no swim bladder and generally don't mark in hard colors (like many sharks and rays). I would guess YT or WSB.
Photo 4, By the thickness of the mark at that depth I would lean towards YT, but it could be a WSB.
Photo 5, By the depth and thickness of marks I would guess good sized Macks, Bonito or small YT.

Originally Posted by Dannowar

DORADO. YOU'RE BITTTTTTT




Open for interpretation....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Photo 1, I can't pick out anything but bait in that pic.
Photo 2, The mark on the bottom appears to be a large fish, but I would bet it is a tightly grouped school of smaller fish. The broken edges of the mark over the entire length indicate that.

Originally Posted by Dirty Curti

Thanks for the thread. I have a few images I would like to share and get your opinion on what you see. I didn't catch any fish during these meter reads.

[IMG][/IMG]



[IMG][/IMG]



[IMG][/IMG]



[IMG][/IMG]

Thanks for any input.

Photo 1, Looks like a bait ball of either Spanish or Blacksmith (judging by individual mark size and coloring).
Photo 2, You are on the wrong frequency and over gained in that depth of water.
Photo 3, Mixed species school of bait, or could be some smaller predators among them.
Photo 4, That mark looks like a fish to me. I would guess that it is either a fish with no swim bladder or it is staying just outside of your transducer cone angle, or both.

Originally Posted by steveooo

What are these? Are they tasty?

















































*edit* chewy jacks

Perfect example of cone angle. The arches that are Red and solid are moving directly through the cone angle. The ones that remain blue and broken are outside the cone angle. The thickness of the bars, in the cone, are just the right size for the depth of water to match YT.

Originally Posted by Denis_Ruso

explain to me why I still cant get a bite

I can show you hours of video footage on fish not biting. Almost all of it can be attributed to a sluggish or oddly moving bait.

[chris138]

Originally Posted by GregAndrew

I would have a few different interpretations on these.
Photo 1, I would agree with.
Photo 2, could be a YT, WSB or even a Sea Lion. I would go with what I caught or saw.
Photo 3, I would not guess Halibut unless you have your colorline very high. They are a demersal fish with no swim bladder and generally don't mark in hard colors (like many sharks and rays). I would guess YT or WSB.
Photo 4, By the thickness of the mark at that depth I would lean towards YT, but it could be a WSB.
Photo 5, By the depth and thickness of marks I would guess good sized Macks, Bonito or small YT.


I can show you hours of video footage on fish not biting. Almost all of it can be attributed to a sluggish or oddly moving bait.

Hey Greg, thanks for chiming in! You have a very unique perspective of sonar returns, given your awesome video vantage. Most of the time when I claim a species, it's because I was bit on those marks. But not always...

I agree on #3, i happened to get a halibut at the time, however there were lots of YT around as well so you could be correct.

#2, Looks very much like a dog. But I got crushed by a 30# yt on that mark. I actually got the gopro footage of the mark, as it was diving then the bite on video. Edit will be coming...

#4, could be yellow but a little "wormy" for me. This was on a day when all three slam species were around.

#5 agree... could be boney. But a nearby friend caught yt right after so that was the basis of my assumption. And you are correct about them being smaller grade... 15-20#s.

Greg makes a great point here. The only time you know for sure what the mark was, is when you catch off the mark. The first time you do this, and watch the fish hit your bait, you will gain a profound sense of accomplishment and confidence!

[Sheephead]

Great thread idea Chris! I love how your naming your sonar marks too!



For the first two pictures I'd like to welcome everyone to the promised land.

The third picture is a good example of how bait reacts to a school of yellowtail. Even if your not marking yt if you see bait behavingg this way you can tell if fosh are around.

Lastly, the 4th pic shows a single yt swimming through a small school of red crab. Yes my settings suck! For yhe 4th pic.

[jbl_91762]

Originally Posted by Sheephead

Great thread idea Chris! I love how your naming your sonar marks too!



For the first two pictures I'd like to welcome everyone to the promised land.

The third picture is a good example of how bait reacts to a school of yellowtail. Even if your not marking yt if you see bait behavingg this way you can tell if fosh are around.

Lastly, the 4th pic shows a single yt swimming through a small school of red crab. Yes my settings suck! For yhe 4th pic.

Thank you so much Chris for posting this and not sure why its not yet a sticky!! I've learned more from this post then any youtube vids I watch to learn as I am new to this. I didn't have the funds for a better FF but only have a Garmin Striker 4 and have no clue how to decipher except for bait and seaweed around Corona Del Mar.

Now 1st 2 pics those images are full of fish I presume? 3rd I would think was the sonar picking up your line dropped?? Please explain further.
Also anybody have a link to a really good youtube that explains more as I learn better with vids but have seriously learned from seeing these images also. Please keep it coming.

[Sheephead]

Originally Posted by jbl_91762

Thank you so much Chris for posting this and not sure why its not yet a sticky!! I've learned more from this post then any youtube vids I watch to learn as I am new to this. I didn't have the funds for a better FF but only have a Garmin Striker 4 and have no clue how to decipher except for bait and seaweed around Corona Del Mar.

Now 1st 2 pics those images are full of fish I presume? 3rd I would think was the sonar picking up your line dropped?? Please explain further.
Also anybody have a link to a really good youtube that explains more as I learn better with vids but have seriously learned from seeing these images also. Please keep it coming.

Pics 1 and 2 are the promised lands. Fish you drop on and instantly get bit by.
Pic 3 was a really cool experience. Yes, you can see my bait being dropped down towards the school of feeding YT but the pattern was so specific this day that it was hard to get bit. The yellow/orange dense dots on the bottom is bait, in this case red crab. On the left side of the picture you can see the school expanding into mid water column and rising up off the bottom as soon as the YT were out of range. The crab were being pushed off the bottom by a school of rockfish, halibut, bass, you name it. As soon as the YT came through again the crab school would get pushed back to the bottom (you can clearly see the school of YT swimming above the school of crab densely packed on the bottom). Towards the right end of the picture you can see the school of YT swimming directly into the suspended school of crab that wasn't quick enough to get back towards the bottom.

Im guessing the reason the YT were able to separate the school is because the crabs don't have lateral lines and because they were the furthest away from where the Yt entered the school they had less time to react to their presence.

[chris138]

Originally Posted by jbl_91762

Thank you so much Chris for posting this and not sure why its not yet a sticky!! I've learned more from this post then any youtube vids I watch to learn as I am new to this. I didn't have the funds for a better FF but only have a Garmin Striker 4 and have no clue how to decipher except for bait and seaweed around Corona Del Mar.

Now 1st 2 pics those images are full of fish I presume? 3rd I would think was the sonar picking up your line dropped?? Please explain further.
Also anybody have a link to a really good youtube that explains more as I learn better with vids but have seriously learned from seeing these images also. Please keep it coming.

Thanks JBL. Doesn't matter to me if it's sticky or not... as long as people want to keep discussing sonar theories and application, the thread will stick around.

Here's your rabbit hole, should you chose to take the blue pill...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q9izOwp1aU&t=4749s

[surfishiron]

hey Chris or Greg, whats your interpretation? Mine was YT balling up bait in the left corner and maybe pushing it low on the right of the screen. Any help is appreciated. FYI this is the best post ever!!!! Sticky for sure!!!yt.jpg

[ful-rac]

Originally Posted by surfishiron

hey Chris or Greg, whats your interpretation? Mine was YT balling up bait in the left corner and maybe pushing it low on the right of the screen. Any help is appreciated. FYI this is the best post ever!!!! Sticky for sure!!!Attachment 22380

Taking in account your depth, I would say most likely it's not yellowtail. It's quite possible it might be depending upon the location you are fishing. You have your FF setting on Medium Chirp and are in shallow water so everything is going to be a bit stretched out, making objects appear to be larger than they would be on High Chirp. Also a wider cone angle covering more area thus displaying more information or more objects in the same amount of space. To me if I saw that on my FF at this current time in the area I fish, I would interpret that more than likely as Bonita, mixed with those little yellows that have been around lately, chasing around bait.

Providing key information might help...

Where were you fishing?
What kind of structure is nearby?
When was the screen shot taken?
Did you catch anything?

You never really can know with absolute certainty of what your seeing on your fish finder unless you are actually catching what you are seeing. And even then the other fish or objects you are seeing on screen can be something completely different from what you are catching. With local knowledge of an area, where certain species are known to congregate, this information can help to narrow down what your seeing on screen can likely be or likely not be.

[surfishiron]

Originally Posted by ful-rac

Taking in account your depth, I would say most likely it's not yellowtail. It's quite possible it might be depending upon the location you are fishing. You have your FF setting on Medium Chirp and are in shallow water so everything is going to be a bit stretched out, making objects appear to be larger than they would be on High Chirp. Also a wider cone angle covering more area thus displaying more information or more objects in the same amount of space. To me if I saw that on my FF at this current time in the area I fish, I would interpret that more than likely as Bonita, mixed with those little yellows that have been around lately, chasing around bait.

Providing key information might help...

Where were you fishing?
What kind of structure is nearby?
When was the screen shot taken?
Did you catch anything?

You never really can know with absolute certainty of what your seeing on your fish finder unless you are actually catching what you are seeing. And even then the other fish or objects you are seeing on screen can be something completely different from what you are catching. With local knowledge of an area, where certain species are known to congregate, this information can help to narrow down what your seeing on screen can likely be or likely not be.

First of all thank you to all that replied this is valuable info that i appreciate from the community. To answer Tony's questions I was fishing my super secret spot you probly don't know it is call La Jolla. Named by the Germans in 1903, there was structure nearby roughly 100-200 yards, screenshot was very recent, I caught several bonies and one YT. I never thought about depth when is came to sonar readings and or my settings in shallow vs deeper water. Appreciate the input from those more experienced than myself. Also never thought of using a different chirp setting based on my depth due to the fact that I usually fisht 70+ to 200. Once again thank you and I cant wait to bring more screen shots to this threat.

[chris138]

Originally Posted by surfishiron

hey Chris or Greg, whats your interpretation? Mine was YT balling up bait in the left corner and maybe pushing it low on the right of the screen. Any help is appreciated. FYI this is the best post ever!!!! Sticky for sure!!!Attachment 22380

for sure that's some bait balled up on the left... but not necessarily being predated on. Could just be really tight feeding on zooplankton. Definitely some faster, harder bodied fish cruising through there, but I would tend to agree with Tony that they don't look yellow for how shallow you are. could be you are catching the edge of a couple bigger fish swimming in the periphery of the cone. Settings look good though, other than being sideways your return has good target separation.

[GregAndrew]

Originally Posted by surfishiron

hey Chris or Greg, whats your interpretation? Mine was YT balling up bait in the left corner and maybe pushing it low on the right of the screen. Any help is appreciated. FYI this is the best post ever!!!! Sticky for sure!!!Attachment 22380

I would also agree that they do not look like large predators. The two schools of bait are different species on left and right. Left side I would bet are either Sardines or Herring. Right side I would bet on Spanish, but there are several other species that might fit that bill. Certainly not Greenies (color would be similar to the Left side and bigger marks), although the predators could be the larger versions of those.

[Denis_Ruso]

Originally Posted by surfishiron

hey Chris or Greg, whats your interpretation? Mine was YT balling up bait in the left corner and maybe pushing it low on the right of the screen. Any help is appreciated. FYI this is the best post ever!!!! Sticky for sure!!!Attachment 22380

I'll take a crack at it. Looking like a baitball on the beginning then looks to be a more like school of blue perch that hang out in the kelp at LJ. Not looking like YT marks to me, arches are too small and movement is too scattered.

[Newguyhere]

Does anyone have setting suggestions for hook 2 5 splitshot if I'm 100+ feet. Could not seem to figure it out. At all.

[Fishing619]

I'm looking for a new FF around $500 to $600 for a PA14
what do you recommend? I have look and they are a lot of
Options it get overwhelm thanks.