An Email from NOAA Recreational Fisheries Coordinator

[StinkyMatt]

Originally Posted by chris138

I'd say most people share your feeling of hopelessness.

Politically speaking... Recreational fisherman have no money and therefore no lobbying power in congress. The only chance WE have is to align ourselves with the scientific and conservationist movement, and promote our sport as responsible and sustainable. If it doesn't happen in your lifetime, it will never happen as the resource will be gone forever.

I don't see us gaining any traction in the scientific community as long as you have anglers griping and complaining about every regulation and marine reserve. Not to mention the cruelty to the sealions. All you sea lion haters need to shut up and quit giving us a bad name.

You take 20 minutes to reel in a 15 lb yellowtail, then complain about how a sea lion "stole" it from you?! Ha... That sea lion is just smarter than you! At least you can now claim that it was a 40lber lol

You couldn't say it any better Chris!


Your two posts in this thread are right on the money.


The attitude of:
Yeah I need to keep my 10 fish limit, it's my right, it's in the constitution! I won't do anything to conserve until the commercial guys do.......




Just because someone else (the tuna pros) do bad things does not make it ok for you to do it.

[Lipripper92592]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that most people that are "for" this type of new legislation live on or near the coast. Please keep in mind, that some people do not live on the coast and get to fish in with any regularity. Therefore the once a year angler gets "screwed" and the folks with free time and boats.....well they have it a different way. I have a proposal that should "level" the playing field for all involved, this being the sport boats and commercials as well as the private anglers.
IF we truly believe that reducing the catch will ensure that the overall stocks go up, then why not have a tag system for keeping BFT. Price per fish, min and max size limits. YOU pay to play.
Please I hope that NOAA has "earned" your trust. They sure haven't earned mine. Our Deputy Directory in the Northwest has no Environmental Experience or training/education....she is a trained politician....PHd in political science.
The Director of the Southwest.....25 + years in academics......no real world experience, university funded studies. There is some old saying around that goes something like this..." those that don't know much......teach". And nothing against teachers, in my experience, they tend to be the ones who couldn't hang in the business/private sector world.
NOAA has been playing a Climate Change game manipulating past temperature datasets to make the present climate seem more warm that past temperatures.
There is well documented evidence of this, cached NOAA pages have shown this as well as the raw datasets.
Why would I be inclined to believe their stock assessments. Unless they can convince the public they are solving "problems" they will loose funding. I'm not saying the stocks have not dropped. Please consider the "rights" you are willing to sacrifice for yourself, and force on others all in the name of environmentalism. Unfortunately most good environmental groups have been high jacked for political purposes, thus it's very hard to find good studies on the subject. Just check the background of the sitting board members......should give you lots' of confidence in the studies they produce.

[ful-rac]

Originally Posted by Lipripper92592

There is some old saying around that goes something like this..." those that don't know much......teach". And nothing against teachers, in my experience, they tend to be the ones who couldn't hang in the business/private sector world.

Hmmm....you might have a point...
Who's a teacher round' here...?

1. Matt (Stinkymatt) Teacher
2. Roby (Roby) Teacher
3. Chuck (ChuckD) Teacher
4. Josh (Darkhorse) Teacher
5. Jim (Deamon) Teacher
6. Yani (Kayakfisherman) Teacher

[Lipripper92592]

Originally Posted by ful-rac

Hmmm....you might have a point...
Who's a teacher round' here...?

1. Matt (Stinkymatt) Teacher
2. Roby (Roby) Teacher
3. Chuck (ChuckD) Teacher
4. Josh (Darkhorse) Teacher
5. Jim (Deamon) Teacher
6. Yani (Kayakfisherman) Teacher

Too funny.....BS in Environmental Resource Management with a concentration in Geo-Spatial modeling......I'll take the science based approach, including uncertainties, and statistical/spatial modeling over "feelings" any day. But feelings are holding up in court much more than they used to.....so there's something to be said there.
Mom was a teacher for 30+ years. There are lot's of good ones out there. I just believe my mom would be horrible in proposing/setting environmental policy and all of her coworkers as well.

[StinkyMatt]

Your Mom was a teacher and you are saying teachers could not hang in the real world?


Show your post to your Mom, see if you get invited to Thanksgiving this year?

[Lipripper92592]

Originally Posted by StinkyMatt

Your Mom was a teacher and you are saying teachers could not hang in the real world?


Show your post to your Mom, see if you get invited to Thanksgiving this year?

She is well aware of this statement....I learned this one from dad. In their age, they come to my house now. And they are both still happily married for 40 some years. It's not hanging in the real world that I am talking about. It's the private sector. I just don't know of many teachers/professors that moved into the private sector non teaching world and were successful in it. It could be that it was too hard to give up 3 months of vacation a year One of my Environmental Law professors was active law partner but his excuse was that he was getting to old to litigate.

[bubblehide]

Originally Posted by Lipripper92592

...It could be that it was too hard to give up 3 months of vacation a year ...

If your mother was a teacher than you should be well aware that those 3 months are NOT vacation, that is unpaid time off.

[dos ballenas]

Originally Posted by Lipripper92592

NOAA has been playing a Climate Change game manipulating past temperature datasets to make the present climate seem more warm that past temperatures.
There is well documented evidence of this, cached NOAA pages have shown this as well as the raw datasets.

Just curious, but do you have any evidence on this? I would love to see it

[jorluivil]

[Lipripper92592]

Originally Posted by dos ballenas

Just curious, but do you have any evidence on this? I would love to see it

Take your time on this one. Please check out the links, and the data on the links. Please compare the dates on the data, and the dates on the graphs.
Please read the articles quoted, at GISS, EPA, and NOAA.
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/...tipping-point/
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/sci...low-temps.html
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/hansen_07/
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/...-at-ushcngiss/
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/09/2...a-quality-act/

In the Science World, data integrity is everything. I'm not aiming to change your opinions, just please be aware that just because it has a government label behind it does not mean it does not have an agenda.

This is straight from the GISS:
Q. Do the raw data ever change?
A. The raw data always stays the same, except for occasional reported corrections or replacements of preliminary data from one source by reports obtained later from a more trusted source.

So why did the raw data change? It will take a good day to sift through the datasets and overlay them, but let me know if you come up with a different conclusion.

[chris138]

I'm sorry I shouldn't call names or make harsh comments. I just feel passionate about this issue...

[Lipripper92592]

Originally Posted by chris138

I'm sorry I shouldn't call names or make harsh comments. I just feel passionate about this issue...

I have a feeling we could have a healthy debate anytime.
No sweat, it's good to be passionate about something rather than nothing.
And you can't go wrong with being passionate about fishing. It's in my blood, probably in yours, most likely fighting for the same things, just possibly different avenues of attack.

[StinkyMatt]

Lip ripper,

The very first link you provided starts with two negative comments about Obama......it took no more than 3 seconds to establish the credibility of your link. It was bustin on the president and not talking science. Never made it to the second link.


I got to get going now....FOX NEWS is running a special on global warming myths....( but you already knew that)




Tight lines my scientist friend.

[jruiz]

Originally Posted by Lipripper92592

Take your time on this one. Please check out the links, and the data on the links. Please compare the dates on the data, and the dates on the graphs.
Please read the articles quoted, at GISS, EPA, and NOAA.
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/...tipping-point/
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/sci...low-temps.html
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/hansen_07/
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/...-at-ushcngiss/
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/09/2...a-quality-act/

In the Science World, data integrity is everything. I'm not aiming to change your opinions, just please be aware that just because it has a government label behind it does not mean it does not have an agenda.

This is straight from the GISS:
Q. Do the raw data ever change?
A. The raw data always stays the same, except for occasional reported corrections or replacements of preliminary data from one source by reports obtained later from a more trusted source.

So why did the raw data change? It will take a good day to sift through the datasets and overlay them, but let me know if you come up with a different conclusion.

Does this paper explain who is changing the data and why?

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/im...o-DC_Brief.pdf

Hardly seems like a conspiracy to me. If anything, seems to me, at worst making poor conclusions on faulty data.

[ful-rac]

[chris138]

Originally Posted by Lipripper92592

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that most people that are "for" this type of new legislation live on or near the coast. Please keep in mind, that some people do not live on the coast and get to fish in with any regularity. Therefore the once a year angler gets "screwed" and the folks with free time and boats.....well they have it a different way. I have a proposal that should "level" the playing field for all involved, this being the sport boats and commercials as well as the private anglers.
IF we truly believe that reducing the catch will ensure that the overall stocks go up, then why not have a tag system for keeping BFT. Price per fish, min and max size limits. YOU pay to play.
Please I hope that NOAA has "earned" your trust. They sure haven't earned mine. Our Deputy Directory in the Northwest has no Environmental Experience or training/education....she is a trained politician....PHd in political science.
The Director of the Southwest.....25 + years in academics......no real world experience, university funded studies. There is some old saying around that goes something like this..." those that don't know much......teach". And nothing against teachers, in my experience, they tend to be the ones who couldn't hang in the business/private sector world.
NOAA has been playing a Climate Change game manipulating past temperature datasets to make the present climate seem more warm that past temperatures.
There is well documented evidence of this, cached NOAA pages have shown this as well as the raw datasets.
Why would I be inclined to believe their stock assessments. Unless they can convince the public they are solving "problems" they will loose funding. I'm not saying the stocks have not dropped. Please consider the "rights" you are willing to sacrifice for yourself, and force on others all in the name of environmentalism. Unfortunately most good environmental groups have been high jacked for political purposes, thus it's very hard to find good studies on the subject. Just check the background of the sitting board members......should give you lots' of confidence in the studies they produce.

I'm guessing that most people who are against this type of legislation are the same rednecks who get most of their data from Facebook and claim that global climate change is part of the liberal media's political agenda.

[chris138]

But I do kinda like the tag system for tuna. interesting idea.

[Lipripper92592]

Originally Posted by chris138

I'm guessing that most people who are against this type of legislation are the same rednecks who get most of their data from Facebook and claim that global climate change is part of the liberal media's political agenda.

That climate change does not exist. The fossil record proves that the climate changes. The weather is not the same year to year. It only snowed twice in the redneck town I grew up in. The difference in the train of thought is did "we" cause this climate change, or is this a "normal" part of the natural cycles we know little about.
No need for name calling, I may be a redneck but I take offense at you assuming I have a facebook account. BWE and BD is my social media.
May I ask who you trust for you data sources? Rest assured I do not get my datasets from facebook, the above links might give you clues as to what sites a carouse. ( sorry I didn't include mother jones in there, but I do check it out) A healthy debate is necessary, but let us please stick to what we perceive as facts, until properly corrected.
Hope you get an opportunity to get that "solo" kayak BFT this summer, and if not this summer, the next, or the next, or the next.