SD Bay Map-MLPA, Harbor PD, Military, Coast Guard...

[tunaseeker]

Any one know of a map that depicts all of the "Dont Fish/Hoop" zones?

Thanks

[Sdspeed]

Originally Posted by tunaseeker

Any one know of a map that depicts all of the "Dont Fish/Hoop" zones?

Thanks

another BWE guy sent me this, good starting place.
you can do a site search too, it's discussed a lot.

[tunaseeker]

Thanks but I was really looking for no fish zones along military installations, shipping lanes ect in SD Bay..

[Sdspeed]

Originally Posted by tunaseeker

Thanks but I was really looking for no fish zones along military installations, shipping lanes ect in SD Bay..

Well I'm sure someone will have that info, I could use that too.

[Baja_Traveler]

Here's an interesting article I saved from one of the yachting forums a while back. Essentially the federal DB's can claim whatever they want to throw you out of an area, so we are at the whims of the pimple faced twerps driving those RIB's around the bay at full speed...

San Diego Bay: A Confused Sea of Limited-Access Zones

By: Jack Innis | Thursday, July 23, 2009 12:00:00 AM
Last updated: Friday, October 30, 2009 1:18:00 PM

SAN DIEGO — San Diego Bay is controlled by a bewildering hodgepodge of regulated navigation zones, security zones, safety zones, restricted zones, and posted-by-sign zones. Most zones serve good purposes. Others seem straight out of a Twilight Zone marathon.

How Far? — Restricted zones in San Diego Bay have proved confusing to many boaters — and the people who officially (or unofficially) imposed them seem to be just as confused. For example, a sign at the Navy SPAWAR Systems Center warns boaters to stay back 350 feet. However, the entrance channel, bounded on the other side by a shoal, is not quite 350 feet wide.



For example:


• It is apparently illegal to transit Shelter Island Yacht Basin through the entrance channel.


• Boaters may not moor, anchor, fish, loiter, swim or water ski within 12 nautical miles of the tip of Point Loma to the south, 4 nautical miles of Point Loma to the west, offshore between the tip of Zuniga Jetty and a few hundred yards off the Imperial Beach Pier. Connect all those dots and you get a 150-square-mile Restricted Zone more than twice the size of Washington, D.C.


• Inside San Diego Bay, it is illegal to moor, anchor, fish, loiter, swim, or water ski anywhere outside of the channel (west of the green buoys) between the tip of Point Loma and the Nimitz Marine Facility Pier across from the Shelter Island Harbor Police Station.


• It also is illegal to moor, anchor, fish, loiter, swim, or water ski anywhere in the western 20 percent of South San Diego Bay including inside the buoy line of the designated swimming area at Silver Strand State Park’s Crown Cove Aquatic Center.


To make matters worse, enforcement of these wide-ranging restrictions is never uniform.


There is absolutely no enforcement of Restricted Area 334.890 — the 150-square-mile area off Point Loma. In fact, the area is frequented by commercial and recreational anglers and divers; and some San Diego-based sportfishing boats rarely venture outside the restricted area.


No reports have surfaced so far about boaters being denied access to Shelter Island Yacht Basin. But signs posted on the Navy’s SPAWAR Systems Center (SSC) Pier (between Nimitz Marine Facility Pier and the Navy Fuel Supply Pier) and the Navy’s dolphin and sea lion training pier read “Keep out. Restricted area. Stay back 350 feet.”


Few boaters in transit notice the 3-by-5-foot red and white signs. Those who scoff do so with good reason: The entrance channel, bounded on the other side by a shoal, is not quite 350 feet wide.


And Shelter Island Yacht Basin Channel is not alone in receiving unequal enforcement.


Anglers aboard boats in the bight north of Ballast Point (near the bait barge) have been confronted by armed Naval Security patrol officers and told to leave for no other reason than they were fishing.


One well-armed naval patrolman recently told an angler the Navy was worried boaters might deploy underwater mines that could crawl across the sea floor, stop beneath one of the nuclear submarines at Sub Base Point Loma, and explode. That angler left without protest — but, on most days, he and others are allowed to wet their lines in the area.


A quick check of the charts shows the area is, indeed, a Restricted Zone: Angling, anchoring and other activities are prohibited here.



No Way to Comply?


While some regulations seem odd and unevenly enforced, others are physically impossible to follow.


According to regulations outlining the Cruise Ship Security Zone, it is illegal to transit within 100 yards of any cruise ship — anchored, berthed or under way — without first requesting permission from the Coast Guard Captain of the Port. Unfortunately for recreational boaters, “Cruise Ship” is defined as any passenger vessel, except for a ferry, 100 gross tons or more, authorized to carry more than 12 passengers for hire and capable of making international voyages on the high seas lasting more than 24 hours.


So, in reality, this regulation covers most passenger for hire boats frequently seen in San Diego Bay: the Maritime Museum’s 109-foot Medea, most vessels in the harbor cruise trade, and virtually every sportfishing boat in the San Diego fleet.


On any given day, it is not unusual to rub elbows with numerous “Cruise Ships” operating throughout San Diego’s long and somewhat narrow bay. Recreational boaters wishing to comply with the letter of the law would find it impossible to maintain the required 100-yard distance and remain on the water.





Know the Zones


Unpredictable enforcement does not seem to excuse boaters from knowing invisible boundaries. Given the current state of hyper-vigilance around military bases, ships, piers or other protected areas, boaters should know that armed patrol officers may be under orders to shoot to kill anyone who disobeys, or who does not immediately follow instructions to leave.


Such was nearly the case when several personal watercraft riders recently buzzed a military vessel as it entered San Diego Bay. The PWC riders first violated a 500-yard moving buffer zone that requires boaters to reduce speed. Then they did the unthinkable and violated — at speed — a 100-yard moving buffer zone that triggers authorization to use deadly force.

According to one well-placed source, a simple misunderstanding very nearly sparked national headline-grabbing gunfire. The riders were members of a PWC club. Other club members were aboard the naval vessel as part of a dependent’s cruise. As such, the riders thought they were authorized to escort the ship through the harbor.


Misunderstandings not withstanding, boaters should refer to charts to understand the types of limited access zones they’re likely to encounter in and around San Diego Bay. Most zones should be carefully observed. In other areas, erratic enforcement may tempt boaters to enter — but anyone who chooses to do so must tread lightly. Zones “never enforced” seem open to free navigation, but this is not always the case.


Enforcement idiosyncrasies withstanding, boaters may find a basic review of limited-access zones helpful.


• Naval Vessel Protection Zones prohibit bringing recreational boats within 100 yards of naval vessels. Boats must be operated at minimum speed within 500 yards of naval vessels. Naval Vessel Protection Zone move along with vessels they protect.


• Security Zones are established by the Coast Guard Captain of the Port at the behest of the Navy to protect important assets. Good examples are the Aircraft Carrier Basin across from the Embarcadero and the Submarine Base at Ballast Point. Some Security Zones are marked by enormous black buoy chains designed to keep unauthorized vessels at bay.


• Safety Zones, also established by the Coast Guard, are designed to protect boaters from things within the zones. A good example would be an oil spill or other hazard. Safety Zones may be temporary or permanent.


• Restricted Areas are established by the Army Corps of Engineers. The restrictions emplaced within them are typically noted on charts.


• Regulated Navigation Areas are established by the Coast Guard and used as tools to manage ship speeds and navigation rules.





‘Twilight Zone’ Zones Explained


Empowered to create zones at the behest of other agencies, the Coast Guard is acutely aware that outmoded, overlapping and unevenly regulated zones cause confusion among recreational boaters.


Lt. Cdr. Mike Dolan, Waterways Management Division Chief, oversees zoning in San Diego Bay for the Captain of the Port.


“I’ve been here one year, and I see some of the (zones) and don’t understand why they’re there,” Dolan said. “Enforcement doesn’t jibe with what I see.”


Some zones are simply outdated. The process of removing them apparently is more difficult and time-consuming than establishing those zones.


“I fielded a call from a marine at Camp Pendleton who asked about a restricted zone offshore that he didn’t understand,” Dolan said. “I found out the zone was created in 1955 because of an undersea cable. The zone has been on the books for 50 years — for a cable that has probably not been used in 40.”


While Dolan emphasized the need for boaters to heed all navigation rules, especially Naval Vessel Protection Zones, Security Zones, and Safety Zones, he did acknowledge that outdated zones are often, but not always, simply ignored.


“Because of the process we have to go through — notices, public hearings, lawyers, publication in the Federal Register — it’s a very time consuming process (to remove them). Sometimes they just don’t get changed; enforcement just kind of goes away.


“We have limited resources and have to be selective with what we enforce,” Dolan added. “We’re not going to enforce a security zone around the harbor cruise boat Hornblower, but the Carnival Cruise liner Elation? Yes.”


Selected enforcement seems to explain why fishing, diving and anchoring are allowed within the 150-square-mile Restricted Area off Point Loma. Army Corps of Engineers spokesman Jay Field could not immediately furnish information regarding when and why the zone was emplaced.





Civilians Should Defuse Situations


So, what should a boater do if told for no apparent reason to leave an area not marked as a regulated navigation zone, security zone, safety zone or restricted zone?


Notwithstanding Naval Vessel Protection Zones and those mentioned above, boaters have the right to free access in San Diego Bay.


“If you know you’re not in a restricted area and are asked to move, you always want to err on the side caution — and don’t get in a confrontation with them,” Dolan said. “My advice would be to go ahead and try to comply, then follow up with the details of the situation either to the Navy or the Coast Guard. We can adjudicate and tell the Navy, ‘you ran some guys out of here and you didn’t have the authority to do that. Why did you do it?’ ”


One such confrontation occurred in June when a belligerent civilian security guard repeatedly ordered a kayaking reporter to stay 200 feet away from the Nimitz Marine Facility Pier. The pier berths civilian research ships, and there are no signs posted. The reporter eventually left the area, even though the highly agitated guard could not cite an appropriate limited access zone and refused to furnish his name, employee identification or badge number.


“Sometimes (security personnel) don’t understand that the Navy does not have (absolute) legal authority in the bay,” Dolan said. “That’s left to the Coast Guard and in restricted areas to the Army Corps of Engineers. “If someone has overstepped their bounds, we can follow through and educate them. We’re all about education.”


But what about signs posted on the Navy’s SPAWAR Systems Center Pier and the dolphin and sea lion training floats that apparently bar access to the Shelter Island Yacht Basin?


They were placed without knowledge or consent of the Coast Guard and have no legal standing. Dolan promised to ask the Navy on behalf of a recreational boater to remove them. But the Navy does not necessarily have to comply.


So, while the Navy has the power to post and maintain unauthorized signs on the SPAWAR Systems Center Pier and other areas throughout the bay, boaters apparently have the power to ignore them — at their own risk.


For information on limited-access zones in and around San Diego Bay, consult NOAA charts 18772 (Approaches to San Diego Bay) and 18773 (San Diego Bay). The charts may be digitally viewed at NOAA Office of Coast Survey, http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/18773.shtml and http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/18772.shtml

[tacmik]

Also don't forget that around the pylons for the bridge is a restricted zone. I have been stopped by the harbor police for drifting to close while fishing. A young officer took my drivers and fishing license and started yelling at me. This went on for five to ten minutes until an older officer told him to shut up and give me my licenses back. He said for God's sake, he's in a kayak and just fishing. Thank God for an older and wiser person.

[LipYanker]

Man, those "pimple face twerps" defending our country really get on my nerves.

Big picture- Naval vessels, thousands of service members, quick transit through a loose border- sounds like a juicy target for any extremist element.

I would thank those guys for making that area a harder target and keeping us safe.

[Rufus]

In the 60s and 70s we used to water ski in the widbreak provided by the aircraft carriers on North Island. I mean we were right under those suckers! And I used to routinely swap tips and jigs in my skiff with navy guys working on the sub drydock at Ballast Point But unfortunately times have changed since 9-11.

How many of you guys remember the USMC LAVs on North Island with their 25mms pointed at those of us fishing close to shore right after 9-11?

My rule of thumb in SD Bay is to fish anywhere there is access and apologize and move on if confronted by Navy security or HPD.

The security guys are a little anal about enforcement west of the bait barge. One time this summer one of the RIBs told me I coldn't fish BETWEEEN the Everingham barges, that I had to be "transienting" the area. Right.

He jetted off after I gave my PA a few kicks.

Understand the mission the military and HPD are charged with, smile, cooperate when asked to move, but don't be scared to fish just about anywhere in the harbor. And never fight back with your mouth. All they want to hear is "No problem, I'll move along."

I pretty routinely toss jigs under The UCSD pier, the old NOSC pier (in plain view of the cameras), the rocky point off the ASW School on Harbor Drive, the ammo pier on North Island and the concrete pilings near the NI helo hangers. All forbidden areas.

But if I see the RIB 'a coming, I start kicking slowly so they think I'm "transiting" the area.

[Jimmyz123]

Originally Posted by tacmik

Also don't forget that around the pylons for the bridge is a restricted zone. I have been stopped by the harbor police for drifting to close while fishing. A young officer took my drivers and fishing license and started yelling at me. This went on for five to ten minutes until an older officer told him to shut up and give me my licenses back. He said for God's sake, he's in a kayak and just fishing. Thank God for an older and wiser person.

The older officer should have stepped in sooner. As long as you are drifting through the bridge and not anchoring you are O.K.

The area in by the bait receiver is off limits to fishing as well. As long as you don't get too close to the military bases you should be O.K. to drop nets in the bay anywhere you like, but I could be wrong on this so don't take my word for gospel.

[MuddyMike]

Originally Posted by Jimmyz123

As long as you are drifting through the bridge and not anchoring you are O.K.

I don't think so. They have the distance to stay away from the pylons clearly posted on each one.

[taggermike]

Baja Traveler summed it pretty well. I've been fishing SD Bay for 40 years(damn I feel old now). Here are a few observations. Between the coast guard, naval security, Harbor police, customs, boarder patrol, life gurads, CA fish and game, and coast guard axillary you can be stopped, searched, ordered to move, or detained at any time in a part of the bay while engaged in any activity. There seams to be little or no cooperation or communication between these entities. In one personal experienced I was ordered/requestd by the coast guard to leave a location, not becasue it was resricted in any way, but because "some one might think I was up to some thing". Engaging a lawfull activity (hoop netting) in a legal location was concidered suspect. I see a culture of fear in our culture that allows these actions. Mike

[tunaseeker]

Thanks for all the replys to this one.

Answer: Hoop in Mission Bay or brave LJ at night

[CheapPelican]

http://sdfish.com/articles/bay-fishi...h-to-the-mouth

Not too detailed, but gives you an idea. Props to the author for sharing a honey hole.

Originally Posted by tunaseeker

Thanks for all the replys to this one.

Answer: Hoop in Mission Bay or brave LJ at night

Very tempting, Havent worked up the nerve yet.