Arnie and his enviro cronies screwed us--AGAIN

[The Kid]

Originally Posted by Stan K G

I don't really care about profit, conservation on its own is good.

conservation in the end is encouraging a bountiful ocean which in turn profits those who seeks to harvest from it and that's what the MLPA and such acts like it are doing they are ensuring future profit. But the method, MLPA, used to accomplish it is rash when there are better methods to accomplish the same goal.

[robmandel]

stan, guess you have no idea who the sophists were. ought to investigate that one. might have a moment of self discovery. (not that this ought to be a maslow moment for you though. I'm pretty sure you've achieved that already!!)

ok, I'll give up the ghost. sophists were pre-socratics in ancient greece (socrates was accused of being one, though he rejected them), who argued for the sake of arguing, could take any side and argue indefinitely, without facts or evidence, "winning" as much as by taking apart their opponents arguments rather than constructing one of their own. they would use rhetorical tricks to gain the upper hand. rather than reaching a logical conclusion based on facts, evidence, and reason, they instead would show how an opponent made a mistake or something and thus, "win". yes, they were hated, cf the clouds. also, truth was relative (i.e. man is the measure of all things) and something that could change or existed in one mind different from another. in fact, there was no truth, simply what one thought to be, was.

even the ancients knew the to be what we so eloquently refer to as, bullshit artists.

[jhook]

Originally Posted by Stan K G

We have the other measures, apperently they aren't enough. (and no anecdotes about how you think the fishery is fine)

Which fishery?

Yeah, the result you don't like has gotta be the only one the journal would accept...those evil scientists HATE when things don't work.

Honestly you highlight the exact problem with bringing up factual evidence to convince you people. Everything counter to your view must be some conspiracy, not anything you can proove, but, you know....It has to be!

The whole point of my response was to point out the flaws in the "factual evidence". One flawed study should not be enough to convince anyone. And, I can assure you that non-results do not get published in top-tier journals. Science also has a definite editorial bent (like all journals). You have far too much faith in experts. Scientists are human, and have personal conflicts and biases, just like everyone else. That doesn't make them evil. Scrutinize the data. Don't just trust the experts.

Where are your exhaustive, double-blind, US-based MPA studies anyhow?

Shouldn't the burden of proof be on those that are trying to change the rules?

How are rivers being off limits to fishing different from MPAs that are off limits to fishing?

For one thing, the data are much better for relatively small, relatively closed systems like freshwater lakes and streams.

Another person with those awesome rose colored shades.

I'm not surprised that the discussion devolved into ranting and name calling. I just wanted to point out that you started it. Too bad really, as I'm trying to learn more about the MLPA process as well.

[The Kid]

Originally Posted by Stan K G

the poll was designed by an anti-MLPA group...how much less biased against your direction can it be?

this poll that you used i found another part you forgot to mention. the same organization that did this study also said this.

"The Alliance of Communities for Sustainable Fisheries (ACSF) has released the results of a national public opinion poll revealing the public’s attitudes about ocean conservation which found that the public strongly wants the ocean to be protected, but not with total marine closures.

Respondents expressed a reluctance to place the ocean off limits to human use if those areas and the resources can be used sustainably. The public does support placing areas off limits to all human use, but only if it is to protect rare and fragile habitats, where no sustainable use is possible. And researchers found that the level of support for both commercial and recreational fishing remains strong.

“The public doesn’t support laws or regulations that hurt the nation’s small, independent fishermen or recreational fishing activities,” said Vern Goehring, manager of the California Fisheries Coalition. “They want smart management of marine ecosystems, not total ocean closures that hurt local economies.”
http://www.alliancefisheries.com/pub...22%202009.html

the info was translated into an article that was biased and left out information pertinent to the subject.

[Gino]

Acually Your Mexicans and Muslims comment I think was what really turned it sour. That was a Colorfull display of ignoramus.

not all lagoons a man made

Steelhead dont spawn in Lagoons. certainly not Lagoons in Southern California. We would have Stripers down here too if they had acess to brackish water to spawn. I caught one in Dana point.

What? Now you're just being dense.

juvie fish will live IN the MPAs, if you cannot fish in the MPAs, you can not catch the juvie fish IN the MPAs.

No one on this forum is fishing for Juvi Rockfish. If any are caught on a rare ocasion. they are released, and the death to release ratio is pretty small. Becuase the catch ratio of juvi rockfish is very small.

Kayakfishing has a very low impact on the Rockfish populations The MPA does not protect agaisnt even 90% of the rockfish take in Southern California. Kayakfishing has little effect on most of these fisheries. Protecting Juvenile Rockfish does not improve the Rockfish Fishery, Regulating a lower limit or size Requirments does. There is no Juvenile Rockfish if there is not Big rockfish spawning. We have a good amount on Rockfish Spawning Protection now. That Fishery is closed a good portion of the year. and Regulated even by Depth in certain areas. lowering the daily limit would be leaps and bounds, not an MPA. You want to increase rockfish populations point your fingers at the Commerical Fishing. Not at us.

Did you get that degree yet?

I dont need a Degree to know Big Squid, eat little fish. For an animal that grows from a Fry to 5 feet long in a little more than year, it has to eat alot of fish. Im willing to bet if there was a study, Im sure youd find a Substancial amount of Small Rockfish in there Diets. I never said i was expert. But Logic trumps reason.

There is very little enforcement in the already Existing MPAs... The MLPA does not have anything in that legislation that increases enforcement or enforcement personel. How do the police uphold the law without policemen patrolling the streets? a Law means nothing without enforcement. Theres not enough enforcement now... theres no tax dollars going around to increase enforcement tomorrow. Most of the newly expanded, or aquired MPA will have no enforcement when they become implemented. DFG is plenty understaffed. and Local Law enforcement wont pick up the Tab. They cant even Enforce protecting the Local Tidepools from the public stepping all over Sea Anemones.

And that Black Sea bass guy, He got his sure fare share of criticism on this forum and many others.. Acually it was alot of the Kayakfishing community who got the DFG and DA to investigate. The Fishing Community in general was what gave those videos the exposure, Which lead to him being charged.
Besides there was no kayak fisherman in the making of that film.
And since there was no MPA around that pier to save that fish, i guess it was just his unluckly day! he musta wandered away from his protected Kelp...


The MPA hurts fishing access for us. It limits us on where we can fish. We are the ones most effected by it. just becuase you see alot of empty coastline apart form the closures on a map. doesnt mean there is efficiant or safe public access to it. The people who endanger our natural Resources the least are the ones being restricted the most. And were somehow supposed to apreciate the MLPA? or accept it for all its specualted goodness? I wish i could say our Tax dollars were funding this but its not, its Packard and Moore, and Special intrest groups, While Big oil gets involved to make sure its future buisness adventures are well protected. Its all upside down.

You maybe could have looked at the MLPA on its face and say hey its a good thing. Funny Enough at First i sure did. Until i started going to the meetings... And when i started to see and learn about some of the crooked side of it.

As far as pole #s go. If you put a poll up for califronians asking who they feel about more Oil drilling of the coast. after that BP and the goverments mess back in the Gulf. Im sure youd find folks would be "strongly agaisnt" Well even they are using the process to there advantage. I know a good deal about that i happen to have connectons involved in Big Oil.


You can post up here all your NOAA and your missworded poll Data. We are just recreational Fisherman, No some billion dollar Enviormental Lobbyist or monster coporations coalition trying to get there peice of the pie. We just want to fish and not be botherd.

[dorado50]

please, no name calling. It will not be tolerated on this forum.

[bellcon]

Originally Posted by dorado50

please, no name calling. It will not be tolerated on this forum.

I seem to remember that rule Dave...

maybe this is a "special" case

Come on guys, by now
We all know there is no "reasoning" with stan
This whole post is like looking at porno for a guy like him...
he has his pants down around his ankles,
typing shit he would never say in person, face to face with anyone here.

Keep it simple
stans a douche bag leaf licker

As you get "older" you realize kicking someone ass for being an obnoxious, argumentative little piece of shit, who doesn't know when to shut up or leave... just isn't right...

then a guy like Stan comes along
and kind of makes you rethink the whole idea


I wonder how many other boards stan is sharing these little rants with...
"oh look at me... look how upset I got all those mean kayak fishermen"


He doesn't deserve to hear us re-hash our arguments
or our logic
if he wants to see what we have said on this subject he can go back in the DFG archives and watch us speak at the meetings...

[AquaticHunter]

Guys. He fishes with a fly rod. Enough said?

[Ohana]

Originally Posted by AquaticHunter

Guys. He fishes with a fly rod. Enough said?

Hey I fish with a fly rod!

Just for that remark, I now support the MLPA's most restrictive plan. Now I have to go cut my nose off to spite my face!

Kevin

[lambadmin]

wow.

Stan K G has got too much time on his hands.

And the things don't quite add up here...

Multiple requests for Spam Sanitation Dept intervention have been filed in.

I have a feeling we're not going to hear back from him - at least not from Stan K G account.

[Grego]

Originally Posted by Grego

What the F...seems like the enviros are hunting and fishing around this board AGAIN with this stan man and bmercury login names

Told you sooo....

Lambchopmod, you should delete this guy's comments, he's still happy his posts are going to be up for a long long long time...

[AquaticHunter]

Originally Posted by Ohana

Hey I fish with a fly rod!

I knew that was coming!

[lambadmin]

Originally Posted by Grego

Told you sooo....

Lambchopmod, you should delete this guy's comments, he's still happy his posts are going to be up for a long long long time...

at your service, master Grego

[The Kid]

moderation is good

[ZUMAN]

This ASSCLOWN is also starting crap and getting threads locked
on scsurffishing as well

http://www.scsurffishing.com/forums/...ic.php?t=64606

[cabojohn]

Stan,
Go pour yourself a nice tall glass of bleach & draino mix and drink up.

**I hope you have the pleasure of running into some of the nice guys here surf fishing.


IB4TL
(that's one for me Steveo)


EDIT- looks like Stan got the ban hammer. Good riddens.

[Ohana]

Originally Posted by AquaticHunter

I knew that was coming!

By the way, I have used my 12 wt fly rod and caught 150 lb makos. But, I am not a purist; I use casting gear for 99% saltwater and fly gear for 75% freshwater.

Kevin

[zenspearo]

Yay.

Mod cleaned up the trash nicely.

[dsafety]

Aah, fresh air. Thanks Zenspero for your enlightening first post in this thread. It sure got everyone's juices going. Now what should we do?

Bob

[Hunters Pa]

Ya know, this amusing banter seems to have gotten everyone fired back up. Well done Stan, you accomplished the exact OPPOSITE of your mission to convince us our stand was misguided.

We are a very diverse group, but bring on a common enemy and see how fast we band together.