Electric Bilge Pump - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

ful-rac · 04-23-2010, 09:52 AM

All this talk about sinking and safety, getting swamped, I thought I'd share my bilge pump. For anybody who is interested this is what I did. I put a whale super-sub pump with a check valve to a thru-hull fitting. Very simple I have it wired to a switch in front of me. I usually take on water when going thru the surf and all I have to do is flip the switch and watch it fly out the side. I also have a manual pump also to keep me double safe!

Tony.

dgax65 · 04-23-2010, 10:07 AM

Very nice work. I've never seen that type of pump before. It looks like it fits the keel very nicely. Is that the 360 or the 500?

ful-rac · 04-23-2010, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgax65

Very nice work. I've never seen that type of pump before. It looks like it fits the keel very nicely. Is that the 360 or the 500?

It's a super sub 500 it's under $30 bucks and is well worth the money.

WahooUSMA · 04-23-2010, 12:05 PM

Very nice

bigbarrels · 04-23-2010, 12:38 PM

Awesome setup!

wiseguy · 04-23-2010, 03:16 PM

Very nice, now I know my next project! Thanks for the post!

WahooUSMA · 04-24-2010, 02:21 PM

Man, I keep coming back to this post and thread. This has got to be the neatest setup I've seen in a long time. I wish someone would assemble the electric bilge pump system, with a parts list and photos as its being completed. Screw the noodle! OEX ought to package something like this...

Andy, Brent...any thoughts?

Bob, I think this project has your name all over it!

Fiskadoro · 04-24-2010, 04:30 PM

Nice setup. Would you mind if I make a few suggestions.

Both pumps and check valves can fail, and they both can and sometimes do fail at the same time. Your exit is low enough that water from the outside could be forced in through wave action if the check valve was not working properly.

To get around this with your existing setup I would increase the length of the tubing from the pump to the valve so that it raises the highest point of of the tube to just under your deck which puts it higher then the outlet. That way any water that splashes in would have to go uphill past the check valve in order to get in. It's a simple mod just add a piece of hose that is maybe six inches longer between the pump.

A better mod would be to replace both hoses, but let me explain why.

That check valve probably has a ball in it that seats against a seal. In your picture the seat would be on the right with the vent or exit on the left.

It's a mechanical valve which means the ball freely moves, as such enough water has to come in to push the ball against the seat to make a seal. It's very good at blocking water under constant pressure because it will tightly push the ball to it's seat creating a good seal.

It's not so good at blocking intermittent flows because every time a little water get's through before the ball is pushed into position and seats.

Right now the valve is horizontal which mean that the ball will be moving back an forth do to gravity as the kayak rocks in the waves. If it sticks there is roughly a fifty fifty chance that it will get stuck in the open position. Since it's horizontal your counting on the water pressure to push the ball against it's seat so it seals. Roughly half the time water comes in your exit port the valve will not be seated or sealed and even if it is working properly some water, maybe a teaspoon full will get through. It's a small amount of water but kayaks are small boats and there is a way around it.

If you take the same valve and connect it to your pump with a short piece of hose maybe two inches so the it's right above the pump, then run a longer hose for the the exit one that cuves up against the deck then out your exit it will improve the set up two ways.

The valve will no longer be horizontal but now vertical with the seat seal at the bottom. So the ball will always now be at the bottom or pushed up against its seat or seal by gravity. The ball that seals and blocks water from coming in will always be down against the seat so it will always be sealed. The longer hose will block water from coming in at all if you have it go all the way up to the deck, as the water would have to go uphill to make it in but any water that does make it over the hump will find you check valve closed and that water will not be able to make it into your kayak.

There's nothing new with any of these ideas. they are common knowledge in the boating industry. I've seem many bilge pumps, and installed a bunch of them, so I just thought I'd say them to possibly help you guys out.

One more thing. My favorite saying in boating is that things that are used wear out things that are not used oxidize. Bilge pumps are seldom used, so they die from sitting and oxidizing.

Every small bilge pump I have seen has a steel spindle which rusts and eventually fails seizing the pump. If you want to increase the life of your system or decrease it's likely hood of failure, rinse out your system after every use.

In other words, put maybe five gallons of fresh water in the yak when you get home then hook up the pump and run it. That will remove all the salt out of pump and check valve, and more then double the life of your pump. once again another lesson I have learned from running and fishing boats over the years.

Like I said nice setup. I'd make a few changes, but that's just my take on it.

Good luck with it, Jim

ful-rac · 04-24-2010, 07:22 PM

Hi Jim, I appreciate your feedback and your suggestions, I highly respect your opinion. The check valve I am using is not the traditional ball and spring type setup, if you take it apart it reminds me of a heart valve. I believe it's made out of some sort of silicone rubber type material, nothing to rust or get stuck. Raising the bottom hose is a great idea, like you said it would force the water to go uphill makes sense. As far as water splashing and getting into the thru hull fitting....very minimal almost none in most situations. The check valve seems to work very well, it's not completely water tight, if I spray with water it will let in a few drops but I'm not going to worry about that.

Fiskadoro · 04-25-2010, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ful-rac

Hi Jim, I appreciate your feedback and your suggestions, I highly respect your opinion. The check valve I am using is not the traditional ball and spring type setup, if you take it apart it reminds me of a heart valve. I believe it's made out of some sort of silicone rubber type material, nothing to rust or get stuck. Raising the bottom hose is a great idea, like you said it would force the water to go uphill makes sense. As far as water splashing and getting into the thru hull fitting....very minimal almost none in most situations. The check valve seems to work very well, it's not completely water tight, if I spray with water it will let in a few drops but I'm not going to worry about that.

Fair enough..
I wondered if it was a ball of flap type check valve. That pretty much get's rid of my concerns. I would still run fresh water through it after each trip.. just for the pump.

I actually put bilge pump on my original plastic kayak a FND. Instead of running the outlet out the side I ran it to the rear well and then added a cap that I could open or close too keep water out

Good stuff.

For me it's interesting to watch the kayaks as they become more like boats each year, at least in the manner people are rigging them.

Jim

wiseguy · 04-26-2010, 08:00 AM

Where did you get that check valve? I have seen the 3/4" Threaded ones that OEX sells, but that would only mean I have to buy two adapters for the ends in order to connect the hose, I like this one better. Please if you dont mind posting a link to where we can find this check valve, that be great! Thanks in advance bro!

ericko · 04-26-2010, 09:38 AM

You can get the check valve at a good tropical fish store, they use them in there filter (the most common is the flap ) seen them around $10 -25 .If your in OC tongs tropical fish in Fountain Valley 1/2 inch 3/4 and 1 inch thread and slip...hope this helps

ful-rac · 04-26-2010, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiseguy

Where did you get that check valve? I have seen the 3/4" Threaded ones that OEX sells, but that would only mean I have to buy two adapters for the ends in order to connect the hose, I like this one better. Please if you dont mind posting a link to where we can find this check valve, that be great! Thanks in advance bro!

I got the check valve at west marine for about $20 bucks. Here is a link with the model # and picture, it's the 3/4" model.

http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?...F&WT.mc_id=gb1

Now before anybody gets crazy and starts to build this thing I just want to let you know that the biggest problem in this whole system is attaching the pump to the hull. Not many adhesives will stick to polyethylene so you cannot use goop or epoxy, it's not strong enough. I've tried that and they don't work, the pump usually ends up peeling right off the hull. What you need to use is a special glue for poly, I used (3M Scotch-Weld Structural Plastic Adhesive DP-8005). This adhesive is super strong and is permanent. The down side is that once it's on it's on and is not going to come off, so don't screw it up! And in order to use DP-8005 you also have to have a special gun and 10:1 tips Other than that it's pretty simple. So please let me know if you have any questions.

Tony.

sandydiego · 04-26-2010, 04:14 PM

Ful-rac,

Where did you get your DP-8005. I have been looking for this in Sad Diego with no luck.

ful-rac · 04-26-2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandydiego

Ful-rac,

Where did you get your DP-8005. I have been looking for this in Sad Diego with no luck.

You can get it off amazon.com or at your local grainger, you might pass out when you find out how much the gun, adhesive, plunger and tips cost....especially when you only need just a tiny bit of adhesive...but when you flip that switch and the water starts shoot'n out... it's worth it to me at least...

http://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotch-Weld...2327005&sr=8-1

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4YX04

Tony.

sandydiego · 04-26-2010, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ful-rac

You can get it off amazon.com or at your local grainger, you might pass out when you find out how much the gun, adhesive, plunger and tips cost....especially when you only need just a tiny bit of adhesive...but when you flip that switch and the water starts shoot'n out... it's worth it to me at least...

http://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotch-Weld...2327005&sr=8-1

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4YX04

Tony.

Thanks. I figure I'll use it for my wet mount box for the FF transducer as well.

wiseguy · 04-27-2010, 07:16 AM

Thanks for the link bro! By the way that bilge pump has a built in check valve it it! Read the description in the link below. So having an additional check valve on the hose make it that much more reliable and safer!

http://www.jmsonline.net/supersub-50...ource=googleps

ful-rac · 04-27-2010, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiseguy

Thanks for the link bro! By the way that bilge pump has a built in check valve it it! Read the description in the link below. So having an additional check valve on the hose make it that much more reliable and safer!

http://www.jmsonline.net/supersub-50...ource=googleps

No, the pump does not have a built in check valve. Read it again. You must install a check valve, or else you risk taking on water thru the fitting! Don't skip the check valve! You need it.

wiseguy · 04-27-2010, 04:13 PM

you are absolutely right! I read it wrong. This is the part number it calls for. Kind of big in my opinion, I like the one you used much better.

http://www.jmsonline.net/inline-non-...-valve-3-4.htm

ful-rac · 04-27-2010, 04:25 PM

It's actually the right part the LV1219 the 3/4", but the wrong picture, the picture is of the LV1215 the 1 1/2 " model.

04-23-2010, 09:52 AM	#1
ful-rac Emperor Join Date: May 2009 Location: Buena Park Posts: 3,649	Electric Bilge Pump All this talk about sinking and safety, getting swamped, I thought I'd share my bilge pump. For anybody who is interested this is what I did. I put a whale super-sub pump with a check valve to a thru-hull fitting. Very simple I have it wired to a switch in front of me. I usually take on water when going thru the surf and all I have to do is flip the switch and watch it fly out the side. I also have a manual pump also to keep me double safe! Tony.

04-23-2010, 10:07 AM	#2
dgax65 Guerro Grande Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 629	Very nice work. I've never seen that type of pump before. It looks like it fits the keel very nicely. Is that the 360 or the 500? __________________ Douglas Gaxiola Team No Fish- Amateur Staff Last edited by dgax65; 04-23-2010 at 10:18 AM.

04-23-2010, 12:05 PM	#4
WahooUSMA Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Rancho Cucamonga Posts: 753	Very nice __________________ GO ARMY BEAT NAVY! Bad decisions make great stories!

04-24-2010, 02:21 PM	#7
WahooUSMA Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Rancho Cucamonga Posts: 753	Man, I keep coming back to this post and thread. This has got to be the neatest setup I've seen in a long time. I wish someone would assemble the electric bilge pump system, with a parts list and photos as its being completed. Screw the noodle! OEX ought to package something like this... Andy, Brent...any thoughts? Bob, I think this project has your name all over it! __________________ GO ARMY BEAT NAVY! Bad decisions make great stories!

04-26-2010, 08:00 AM	#11
wiseguy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Long Beach Posts: 427	Check valve Where did you get that check valve? I have seen the 3/4" Threaded ones that OEX sells, but that would only mean I have to buy two adapters for the ends in order to connect the hose, I like this one better. Please if you dont mind posting a link to where we can find this check valve, that be great! Thanks in advance bro!

04-23-2010, 12:38 PM	#5
bigbarrels Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Vista Posts: 1,111	Awesome setup!

04-23-2010, 03:16 PM	#6
wiseguy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Long Beach Posts: 427	Very nice, now I know my next project! Thanks for the post!

04-24-2010, 04:30 PM	#8
Fiskadoro ....... Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,509	Nice setup. Would you mind if I make a few suggestions. Both pumps and check valves can fail, and they both can and sometimes do fail at the same time. Your exit is low enough that water from the outside could be forced in through wave action if the check valve was not working properly. To get around this with your existing setup I would increase the length of the tubing from the pump to the valve so that it raises the highest point of of the tube to just under your deck which puts it higher then the outlet. That way any water that splashes in would have to go uphill past the check valve in order to get in. It's a simple mod just add a piece of hose that is maybe six inches longer between the pump. A better mod would be to replace both hoses, but let me explain why. That check valve probably has a ball in it that seats against a seal. In your picture the seat would be on the right with the vent or exit on the left. It's a mechanical valve which means the ball freely moves, as such enough water has to come in to push the ball against the seat to make a seal. It's very good at blocking water under constant pressure because it will tightly push the ball to it's seat creating a good seal. It's not so good at blocking intermittent flows because every time a little water get's through before the ball is pushed into position and seats. Right now the valve is horizontal which mean that the ball will be moving back an forth do to gravity as the kayak rocks in the waves. If it sticks there is roughly a fifty fifty chance that it will get stuck in the open position. Since it's horizontal your counting on the water pressure to push the ball against it's seat so it seals. Roughly half the time water comes in your exit port the valve will not be seated or sealed and even if it is working properly some water, maybe a teaspoon full will get through. It's a small amount of water but kayaks are small boats and there is a way around it. If you take the same valve and connect it to your pump with a short piece of hose maybe two inches so the it's right above the pump, then run a longer hose for the the exit one that cuves up against the deck then out your exit it will improve the set up two ways. The valve will no longer be horizontal but now vertical with the seat seal at the bottom. So the ball will always now be at the bottom or pushed up against its seat or seal by gravity. The ball that seals and blocks water from coming in will always be down against the seat so it will always be sealed. The longer hose will block water from coming in at all if you have it go all the way up to the deck, as the water would have to go uphill to make it in but any water that does make it over the hump will find you check valve closed and that water will not be able to make it into your kayak. There's nothing new with any of these ideas. they are common knowledge in the boating industry. I've seem many bilge pumps, and installed a bunch of them, so I just thought I'd say them to possibly help you guys out. One more thing. My favorite saying in boating is that things that are used wear out things that are not used oxidize. Bilge pumps are seldom used, so they die from sitting and oxidizing. Every small bilge pump I have seen has a steel spindle which rusts and eventually fails seizing the pump. If you want to increase the life of your system or decrease it's likely hood of failure, rinse out your system after every use. In other words, put maybe five gallons of fresh water in the yak when you get home then hook up the pump and run it. That will remove all the salt out of pump and check valve, and more then double the life of your pump. once again another lesson I have learned from running and fishing boats over the years. Like I said nice setup. I'd make a few changes, but that's just my take on it. Good luck with it, Jim

04-24-2010, 07:22 PM	#9
ful-rac Emperor Join Date: May 2009 Location: Buena Park Posts: 3,649	Hi Jim, I appreciate your feedback and your suggestions, I highly respect your opinion. The check valve I am using is not the traditional ball and spring type setup, if you take it apart it reminds me of a heart valve. I believe it's made out of some sort of silicone rubber type material, nothing to rust or get stuck. Raising the bottom hose is a great idea, like you said it would force the water to go uphill makes sense. As far as water splashing and getting into the thru hull fitting....very minimal almost none in most situations. The check valve seems to work very well, it's not completely water tight, if I spray with water it will let in a few drops but I'm not going to worry about that.

04-26-2010, 09:38 AM	#12
ericko Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Huntington beach Posts: 594	check valve You can get the check valve at a good tropical fish store, they use them in there filter (the most common is the flap ) seen them around $10 -25 .If your in OC tongs tropical fish in Fountain Valley 1/2 inch 3/4 and 1 inch thread and slip...hope this helps

04-26-2010, 04:14 PM	#14
sandydiego Rum Pirate Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Wilds of Mira Mesa Posts: 388	Ful-rac, Where did you get your DP-8005. I have been looking for this in Sad Diego with no luck.

04-27-2010, 07:16 AM	#17
wiseguy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Long Beach Posts: 427	Pump Has a built in check valve already Thanks for the link bro! By the way that bilge pump has a built in check valve it it! Read the description in the link below. So having an additional check valve on the hose make it that much more reliable and safer! http://www.jmsonline.net/supersub-50...ource=googleps

04-27-2010, 04:13 PM	#19
wiseguy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Long Beach Posts: 427	you are absolutely right! I read it wrong. This is the part number it calls for. Kind of big in my opinion, I like the one you used much better. http://www.jmsonline.net/inline-non-...-valve-3-4.htm

04-27-2010, 04:25 PM	#20
ful-rac Emperor Join Date: May 2009 Location: Buena Park Posts: 3,649	It's actually the right part the LV1219 the 3/4", but the wrong picture, the picture is of the LV1215 the 1 1/2 " model.