Real sea lion problems

[Law Hand]

http://www.kcra.com/video/21686503/index.html

[Matt]

I don't like them when they steal fish or harrass me, but I would never shoot one, and I have definitely had some scary moments with them.

[taggermike]

The full response with 12 heavily armed wardens smashing down the door is a bit distresseing. The shot of the little kid with the assault rifle weilding officer next to him is ugly too. They knew the fool had a gun but could they have perhaps apprehended him on his way to work with out exposing the family to that trauma? I've seen video of suspected murderers taken down with less force. Is this what we have to look forward to? Mike

[desert_s10]

I don't agree with shooting seals ONLY because I cant buy a seal tag to do it legally. They did it to make an example of him. Of course there are better ways of apprehending a suspect but that doesn't make for good PR. Who do you think called the media?

[Billy V]

What was the reason or the circumstances for the shooting ?

[dsafety]

Billy,

According to the UT, the guy was pissed because the sea lion kept taking his fish. Good thing that never happens off La Jolla.

Protecting marine mammals is a good idea that has resulted in some unintended consequences. Before we became so civilized, marine mammal populations were kept in check by natural predators such as sharks and even bears or mountain lions. Many of these natural predators are now gone so the seal and seal lion populations have increased to the point where have become a nuisance to humans.

A couple familiar examples come to mind. The cute seals have won out over human children at the Children's Pool, (soon to be officially known as the "Casa Marine Mammal Preserve". The sea lions are no dummies. The have learned that it is much easier to steal bait and hooked fish from fishermen rather than earning their lunch the way it has been done for many thousands of years before Man interfered.

Now I am not suggesting that the protections that seals and sea lions currently enjoy be removed. I am suggesting, however, that we need to keep things in prospective when addressing this issue. Seals and sea lions have become a nuisance because of Man's behavior.

If we stay on the path we are currently following it is entirely possible that some local fisheries may become decimated. Not as a result of over-fishing by humans but from marine mammal overpopulation.

It's something to think about.

Bob

[SeaEagle_1]

dsafety you make a great point. seal populations have exploded and is probably one of mans' best success stories in in bring a species back from the brink. and as you mentioned we have also been responsible for the loss of other natural predator. so the we have an issue. yes i think they should be protected from man, but from joe public. the boater. the yakker. the dock fisherman. but i also think that seal populations have grown bigger then at any other time, so if this is true then they are eating much more fish. and we all know that those things are NEVER full! they are very opportunistic. so maybe the MLPA should be focusing on THIS issue! lets cull the herd? lets put the meat to use. use the blubber. use ever part of that animal for good. but cull it back down to normal levels. i fear the day is coming that we are going to read in one of these forums that a kayak fisherman will be killed by a hungry seal as he had a fish on the line or was taking it off the hook.

as for the storm trouper raid on that guys house. from what i have been able to read and see everyone involved with this case from the law enforcement side are pissed that the worst they can do to the guys is charge him with a misdemeanor. its a serous issue. the man had a gun and shot an animal where people go. what if he missed? what is the angle was wrong? its the "what if's" and the gun that cause such a stern action on the DFG offices.

overkill? yes. did he pose a risk or a threat to others? no. so it was uncalled for to smash his door open the way he did. not like he was a gang banger or something like that.

but with all that said, i do hope he gets the full term in jail. one year for a misdemeanor. seals are a majestic animal. very beautiful to watch. and a smart animal that does not deserve to be shot cause its annoying you. stories like this do nothing to help our cause and can in fact do harm with all those tree huggers out there.

ok that is my two cents! LoL.

[Tman]

Just my thoughts...

Seals, sea lions, sea dogs, are not vegetarians. The more they multiply, the more they eat, right?

What a concept...

Now let's replace the sea dogs with sea cats...a step further, the sea cats with land cats and dogs.

Coyotes attack our household pets. Also, they have been known to attack children. In pursuit of food, they will go after anything to quench their appetite. Let's not hurt them or abuse them based on the same theory.

Now to larger cats...mountain lions. When they attack live stock, DFG, upon proof, will allow the rancher to take any measure necessary to protect his stock, thus the farmer brings in goats, which still get decimated.

So, based on this reasoning, we are to allow seals, sea lions full reign, while our land animals who have the potential to cause harm to humans, are fair game.

Unless I am missing something, each of these predators have an impact on our food chain and/or threaten our safety.

Is it safe to assume that upon the first confrontation with a human and a sea lion, they will be then categorized in the same manner as the coyote and mountain lion?

After all, we are all in search of food...

[Billy V]

Sea Lions do come uncomfortable close to kayakers to attack our catch, sometimes boarding or flipping a kayak. I would consider that a life threatening situation while I was a couple of miles offshore in a kayak.

Are we (kayakers) allowed to defend ourselves when faced with an attacking Sea lion ? Its not like they are defenseless.

-If for instance I was legally fishing in front of the Children's Pool and a Seal or Sea Lion try to board my kayak to steal a Calico Bass sitting in my rear well. Could I shoot him because I was in fear of loosing my life ?
-I would sure like to know.
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Does Kalifornia allow kayakers to carry a bang stick or firearm on board ?

[dsafety]

While I am not aware of a report of a seal lion attack on a human, (except for me when I once paddled a zodiac too close to a rookery on San Clemente Island), the possibility certainly exists. The time may come when a hungry sea lion attacks a defenseless swimmer or beach walker. If that happens the fit will hit the shan.

Many marine mammals were hunted and abused during the not to distant past. In an attempt to pay restitution for past offenses, we have protected and coddled some these wild animals to the point that they are no longer "wild" in the truest sense.

Sea lions, and to a lesser extent seals are the ocean's coyotes. These animals are smart and very adaptable. During the last half century, we have taught them to depend on Man for much of their sustenance. Some of these animals know of no other way to feed themselves other than to take the easy meal provided by Man. These animals, under our protection, are thriving but as their populations grow, they may be thriving at the expense of other wildlife. For example, the rapidly growing sea otter population has been blamed for the disappearance of abalone along much of the California coast.

I recognize that it would be extremely difficult to get the average Joe, who has only seen photos of the cute seal pups on the beach, to support a progressive idea such as reducing their population to save an ecosystem as a whole. It may come down to that however.

Maybe one day there will be a truly science-based MLPA that looks at all the factors that influence a healthy fishery. If that ever happens, I suspect that sea lions will get a lot more attention than they did this time around.

Bob

[habanero]

I have no scientific evidence to back me up but I believe the these protected, unnaturally concentrated mammals kill far more wild life in La Jolla when compared to fishing. If "The Science" proved this accurate, how many blue shirts would support a culling program?

[MalibuJohnny]

While a deck hand on the BlackJack (way back when) It was not un-common for a member of the crew ( Captian #*@*&#!38 ) to sit on the wheel house with a #22 and shoot the seals at San Nicholas Island.
This took place while we had paying customers on board. I couldn't understand why he would take such a risk,...one day several weeks later, he was at it again and someone taped him while he was picking off the FUR BASS... Captian #*@*&#138 would tell the customers that he was shooting sharks. Anyway I believe he was charged with shooting and shooting at seals. (Later we started using seal bombs...)

I didn't stay around to find out what ever happened

[dgax65]

One of the reports on this incident mentioned that the California sea lion population is exploding. They said that a record 59,000 were born in 2008. I'm not sure if that was just in this state or throughout their range. Either way, that's a lot of dogs. I have a feeling that the GWS birth rate is nowhere near that of the sea lions. It will probably be decades before the GWS shark population comes into any sort of equilibrium with the sea lions. Until then, there will be lots of hungry sea lion out there. The promise of MPA's allowing fish stocks to recover will likely never be realized if the sea lion population is out of control. Ten years from now, when we have dwindling fish stocks and lots of fat sea lion, the DFG will probably decide that the MPA's just weren't big enough to protect the poor little fishies and they will close the entire coast.

[Billy V]

Originally Posted by dgax65

One of the reports on this incident mentioned that the California sea lion population is exploding. They said that a record 59,000 were born in 2008. I'm not sure if that was just in this state or throughout their range. Either way, that's a lot of dogs. I have a feeling that the GWS birth rate is nowhere near that of the sea lions. It will probably be decades before the GWS shark population comes into any sort of equilibrium with the sea lions. Until then, there will be lots of hungry sea lion out there. The promise of MPA's allowing fish stocks to recover will likely never be realized if the sea lion population is out of control. Ten years from now, when we have dwindling fish stocks and lots of fat sea lion, the DFG will probably decide that the MPA's just weren't big enough to protect the poor little fishies and they will close the entire coast.

Remember this argument when the MLPA People come back in 5 years to tell us that The Fish Stocks Have Not Recovered Enough -and- They Need to Close Off More of the Coast with SMR's.

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We need to start legislation to Cull Sea Lion, and Seal Population now.
That should have gone hand in hand with the implementation of any SMR.
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A Huge Reserve in La Jolla as proposed, and an Out of Control Seal/Sea Lion in the Same ares ='s FAIL.
A Large Failure.

[Willy]

*Sharpens pitchfork. Dips torch in oil*

Nothing to see here.
Move along.
Move along.


Willy

[BIGWEAVESTEVE]

maybe the gws are moving in, remember the swimmer in solana beach

[Fiskadoro]

The seal in question was a large bull that had been hanging out with five other seals for over a year at the confluence with the American River, and Sacramento river roughly a 100 miles from the ocean.

When asked why the seals were there a biologist said: "The animals likely are here because of an imbalance in their population or their environment that has driven them to travel farther for food."

Then it occurred to me....What population imbalance is that? Overpopulation because a lack of action by man.. Perhaps?

For thousands of years that area was inhabited by Native Americans who harvested the rivers for salmon for food. Any seal that came up the river would of just been killed by the Native Americans and eaten.

So the natural balance was that seals native to the marine environment could not eat Salmon in their river spawning runs, because of...... Man.

Man as part of.... rather then aside of.... the natural balance of nature... what a concept, and certainly a concept that is almost completely overlooked in management..

Now we have protections that do not allow man to kill any seals, and that is precisely the imbalance involved here.

What the environmentalists want to pretend is that nature should exist as if man never existed, but that ignores the fact that man has been a part of nature, part of the natural balance for hundreds of thousands of years.

If we want a more balanced natural picture in the future it would have to be based on historic roles. Certainly we should allow man to kill seals in some conditions, like when they swim into salmon runs.

There is a difference between killing seals when the come into harbours or river systems where they would of traditionally been killed and going out to the rookeries and slaughtering baby seals for their skins.

We have a role to play as a top predator, but it has to be used in moderation to fit the historic balance of nature. That is what the environmentalists and their blanket laws of protection... overlook.



Jim

[Matt]

I know that Josh has had more than one uncomfortable "situation" with a sealion....a.k.a Knothead, and I was fishing with Brad and Tyler a few years ago when the aforementioned knothead gave Tyler a real close looking over and a small bump!

Also while hoopnetting last year, I got in a tug of war with one over my last net with Rusty helping in us winning that battle but was then followed back over across the entire bay to the launch ramp by the big SOB in Sd bay where he barked and charged us!


I don't want to see people hunting and slaughtering them, but some culling by the DFG wouldn't hurt that population much!

[SeaEagle_1]

as mentioned already Tman, animals that attack man and even our pets are hunted down and killed to insure the publics' safety. hell a coyote is seen walking around and we hear about it on the news and DFG go's out to scare them away!

now some of you guys have mentioned seals and sea lions getting very aggressive (and i have had my own run-ins with them). for example Matt's recounting of the tug-a-war and the charging seal when he was on the beach! if a coyote or a mountain lion had done that it would have been hunted down and shot the moment it came to light. that type of learned behavior can become VERY dangerous to man. so why is it when we have a seal or sea loin doing the same thing we don't kill it?

on more then one occasion had a seal eying me as though i was invading his feeding grounds. and for a moment i thought he might jump onto my yak as though i was challenging him. and we all know what happens when you look a wild animal in the eye or it thinks you are challenging it.

so i say if a seal or sea lion shows aggressive action to any human that animal should be put down to insure the safety of all.

[bellcon]

I think they are cute
But I would kill one if I felt my life or yours was in danger...

Of course this guy would be a helluva lot easier to deal with:



Than this big-o beast:
(I was glad he was sleeping, and the pic does him no justice)