Flat Fall Jigs - Any experience on here? - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

goldenglory18 · 07-21-2017, 08:26 AM

All,

I have a charter trip planned for next Friday and considering the boat will be filled with newbies (its a work thing) I thought it would be fun to do something different. While everyone else is dropping drooper loop rigs w/8oz weight, I'd make a plan to throw some vertical flat fall style jigs.

Being that flat falls / butterfly jigs have been a hot item the last few years, I was wondering if anyone on BWE had some experience to share. What weight, what lbs test line, and any special hook rigging you've tried and had experience with (I've heard those owner harnesses have been failing at like half the expected test.)

I'll be throwing (or dropping) these with a 7'6" XH Proteus with a sized 30 Saltist if that matters at all...

Thanks as always!

- Kenny

Denis_Ruso · 07-21-2017, 08:49 AM

Flat Falls work. Can you elaborate on what boat, what landing and how long of a trip?

The trip will determine what kind of fishing you will be doing, setups are different depending what depth you will be fishing.

The jigs work completely stock the way they are. They work on a number of species. I like to run braid and short leader to the jig ranging from 3-10 feet. Weight of the jig will depend on depth.

Baja_Traveler · 07-21-2017, 09:28 AM

Here's my experience - last year spent what I consider alot for a 100g shimano flatfall, and put it on my rod with the Calcutta 400 just before the San Quintin halibut trip.

While there the first day decided that I'd like to see how the thing casts, so went out to the bank next to the resturant and took a cast. "Hey, this thing casts great!" I thought - then I took my second cast, birdnested the reel, and watched the flatfall break off and fly into oblivion.

Thats my only experience using the flatfall jig.

Did pick up a 5 pack of the cheap chinese clones at the Fred Hall show this year, but have not had a chance to fish them yet.

goldenglory18 · 07-21-2017, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denis_Ruso

Flat Falls work. Can you elaborate on what boat, what landing and how long of a trip?

Bah, I know its a full day trip, limited load out of Channel Islands. We are leaving dock at 4:30, and I fully expect us to primarily target rocks, with a few hours spent looking for any trophies that are close.

Whatever I get, I'd like it to also be applicable to how WE fish in yaks as well, so I dont really want to go to 200g+ jigs for this upcoming trip, unless of course it makes sense for Malibu/LA Co/LJ as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baja_Traveler

Here's my experience...Thats my only experience using the flatfall jig.

Haha, anyone else have a POSITIVE experience?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baja_Traveler

Did pick up a 5 pack of the cheap chinese clones at the Fred Hall show this year, but have not had a chance to fish them yet.

Funny enough, Shimano is actually a knockoff itself. I've heard a lot of guys really like the ones that are on ebay and those are REALLLLY close to the same thing Shimano is producing. Makes you wonder about the actual manufacturer.

I'm looking at these and considering....Keel jig imported from China

Baja_Traveler · 07-21-2017, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenglory18

Whatever I get, I'd like it to also be applicable to how WE fish in yaks as well, so I dont really want to go to 200+ oz jigs for this upcoming trip, unless of course it makes sense for Malibu/LA Co/LJ as well.[/URL]

No matter where you are using it, I think you will be hard pressed to find a 12.5 pound flatfall jig

Denis_Ruso · 07-21-2017, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenglory18

Bah, I know its a full day trip, limited load out of Channel Islands. We are leaving dock at 4:30, and I fully expect us to primarily target rocks, with a few hours spent looking for any trophies that are close.

Whatever I get, I'd like it to also be applicable to how WE fish in yaks as well, so I dont really want to go to 200+ oz jigs for this upcoming trip, unless of course it makes sense for Malibu/LA Co/LJ as well.

Personally I have not had any experience fishing calico bass for them so I cant comment on that. But they are great for Sandbass, rockfish and of course fishing offshore for tuna.

Given you will be most likely fishing Ana Capa or Santa Cruz Island there will be no tuna there. You will be targeting yellowtail in the morning. The yellowtail in my experience are not big fans of this jig, although some people do land yellows on these, I have not seen it outside of a hot bite when everything is getting bit. (some would disagree with me on this) For yellowtail I personally would focus more on a surface Iron or a coltsniper or the flylining the liveliest bait in the tank.

As far as rockfishing, the flatfall is about a good as it gets jigging off the bottom but you will be fishing 120-300 feet and you will want one as heavy as you can get it. Sinking a flat fall 2-300 ft with a boat full of people can lead to tangles if you are drifting and the jig is not heavy enough. Jig directly off the bottom. Problem with using them this way is the hooks get snagged on the structure and it suck loosing a 15$ jig rock fishing. I personally keep flat falls for the tuna fishing.

No sense in using a 15$ jig when the rockfish will bite anything down there that's tipped with a squid strip.

goldenglory18 · 07-21-2017, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baja_Traveler

No matter where you are using it, I think you will be hard pressed to find a 12.5 pound flatfall jig

Hahaha, imagine casting that pig. LOL

goldenglory18 · 07-21-2017, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denis_Ruso

Personally ...No sense in using a 15$ jig when the rockfish will bite anything down there that's tipped with a squid strip.

Fair points, thanks dude.

Maybe I'll just pick up a few more coltsnipers and stick with whatever squish jigs I still have left. I'm 95% positive I'll be the only person on this boat throwing anything other than a bottom rig or flyline.....

Hunters Pa · 07-21-2017, 11:48 AM

Grab an Assault and/or Deception in mackerel pattern as well, in the heavier models. Ling love em.

If you were nearby I might have an extra to give you to try

jimichu · 07-21-2017, 11:51 AM

I use flat fall for everything, YT, rockfish, lingcod. It works really well for me, In fact I have more faith with my jig than live bait. BUT, I'm not using the shimano flat fall. Shimano's flat fall was one of the first generations of flat fall jigs, it's rarely seen now in japan because the newer ones works so much better. Try some "Seafloor control" flat fall jigs, especially the "Rector", I caught almost anything with that jig.

Lingcod is especially attracted to it. You don't need to cast, just drop it vertically to the bottom, depent on what you are try to catch, for rock fish and lingcod, just do slow up lift near the bottom and then drop back, repeat. For YT, do punchy fast up lifts continuesly to the surface with some random drops.

oh, you also need a "slow pitch jigging" rod, those rods are skinny with bouncy tips, the jig will dance better and be more attractive.

I just bought my first kayak, I think pretty soon I will be slow jigging on a kayak, maybe I'll try county line or LJ first.

FISH11 · 07-21-2017, 12:46 PM

I bought some in different sizes last year after going on a 3/4 day boat. Used them on the next 1.5 day boat but did not get anything because none of the Yellow or Bluefins we saw wanted to play, even with bait. Used it on my Kayak in March and cast it on some boils and landed a 34 lb Yellowtail. Next trip I cast it get a birds nest and watched it just keep going. I buy another (glow, now they are on backorder) on another Kayak trip bait is boiling I cast and get two huge Calicos and another Yellowrail. Later I let it fall too long get caught in the kelp and can't get it back, lost another. I have several other colors Sardine, Squid, and Anchovy. Haven't used the other enough to see how they do over the Glow color. On a boat I use 200 grams and on the Kayak 160 grams. I like them more than my Irons.

Mahigeer · 07-21-2017, 01:08 PM

They work great.

Baja_Traveler · 07-21-2017, 01:55 PM

Did a quick websearch for the Seafloor Control jigs - the only place I could find them in the US was from someone on Ebay - for $30 apiece.

domtesta27 · 07-21-2017, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baja_Traveler

Did a quick websearch for the Seafloor Control jigs - the only place I could find them in the US was from someone on Ebay - for $30 apiece.

$30 bucks says the seller is JIMICHU

Bruntoj · 07-21-2017, 02:10 PM

I cast the 100g (3oz I think) Shimanos with my MH Teramar and Tranx400 with 50lb braid and 6-8ft 40lb fluoro leader. Sometimes casting and sometimes just dropping it. Keeps me busy while I soak livebait on flyline and dropper.
Besides bass and rockfish I've caught a soupfin shark and a 25lb'ish YT.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jimichu · 07-21-2017, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by domtesta27

$30 bucks says the seller is JIMICHU

isn't it $50 ?

jimichu · 07-21-2017, 02:57 PM

he's one pic from japanese angler Totos's blog, one jig, two amberjack:

Hunters Pa · 07-21-2017, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by domtesta27

$30 bucks says the seller is JIMICHU

Hmmmm, first post is promoting a jig only available on ebay? Ya think?

jimichu · 07-21-2017, 09:12 PM

I'm just offering my honest expeience as the post is asking for. If anybody feels I'm a jig seller, plz just ignore what I've said and go on with your favorite flat fall. I'm a jigger and I use many different brand of jigs, what I mentioned is just one if them.

WestFork · 07-21-2017, 11:16 PM

Lots of good stuff in this thread. The key point is if the boat is fishing deep, your flatfalls have to get down at about the same rate as what others are using or there will be ugly tangles. :-(
Flatfalls will take most everything at the right time from sharks to snapper to YT. They won't necessarily be the best all the time. Example: irons typically "swim" better so can be more productive on near-surface fish.
There are some great painted/printed/adhesive finishes on flatfalls that get scarred, chewed off and otherwise damaged in use.
Finally, as a great Norwegian trout fisherman sagely remarked, 100% of the fish are caught...on what the fishermen are using. :-)
Good luck and tight lines!

07-21-2017, 08:26 AM	#1
goldenglory18 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Seattle Area Posts: 861	Flat Fall Jigs - Any experience on here? All, I have a charter trip planned for next Friday and considering the boat will be filled with newbies (its a work thing) I thought it would be fun to do something different. While everyone else is dropping drooper loop rigs w/8oz weight, I'd make a plan to throw some vertical flat fall style jigs. Being that flat falls / butterfly jigs have been a hot item the last few years, I was wondering if anyone on BWE had some experience to share. What weight, what lbs test line, and any special hook rigging you've tried and had experience with (I've heard those owner harnesses have been failing at like half the expected test.) I'll be throwing (or dropping) these with a 7'6" XH Proteus with a sized 30 Saltist if that matters at all... Thanks as always! - Kenny

07-21-2017, 08:49 AM	#2
Denis_Ruso Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 571	Flat Falls work. Can you elaborate on what boat, what landing and how long of a trip? The trip will determine what kind of fishing you will be doing, setups are different depending what depth you will be fishing. The jigs work completely stock the way they are. They work on a number of species. I like to run braid and short leader to the jig ranging from 3-10 feet. Weight of the jig will depend on depth. __________________ 2018 Hobie Outback 13 I do not fear the storm as it will teach me how to sail my ship.

07-21-2017, 12:46 PM	#11
FISH11 Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Pine Valley when not fishing La Jolla Posts: 2,643	I bought some in different sizes last year after going on a 3/4 day boat. Used them on the next 1.5 day boat but did not get anything because none of the Yellow or Bluefins we saw wanted to play, even with bait. Used it on my Kayak in March and cast it on some boils and landed a 34 lb Yellowtail. Next trip I cast it get a birds nest and watched it just keep going. I buy another (glow, now they are on backorder) on another Kayak trip bait is boiling I cast and get two huge Calicos and another Yellowrail. Later I let it fall too long get caught in the kelp and can't get it back, lost another. I have several other colors Sardine, Squid, and Anchovy. Haven't used the other enough to see how they do over the Glow color. On a boat I use 200 grams and on the Kayak 160 grams. I like them more than my Irons. __________________ MARK ......... 2016 MALIBU X FACTOR, 2020 SOLO SKIFF (Fishing Kayak on Steroids )

07-21-2017, 09:28 AM	#3
Baja_Traveler Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Table 17, Bay Park Fish Co. Posts: 943	Here's my experience - last year spent what I consider alot for a 100g shimano flatfall, and put it on my rod with the Calcutta 400 just before the San Quintin halibut trip. While there the first day decided that I'd like to see how the thing casts, so went out to the bank next to the resturant and took a cast. "Hey, this thing casts great!" I thought - then I took my second cast, birdnested the reel, and watched the flatfall break off and fly into oblivion. Thats my only experience using the flatfall jig. Did pick up a 5 pack of the cheap chinese clones at the Fred Hall show this year, but have not had a chance to fish them yet.

07-21-2017, 11:48 AM	#9
Hunters Pa Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Fullerton Posts: 1,360	Grab an Assault and/or Deception in mackerel pattern as well, in the heavier models. Ling love em. If you were nearby I might have an extra to give you to try

07-21-2017, 11:51 AM	#10
jimichu Junior Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Pasadena Posts: 8	I use flat fall for everything, YT, rockfish, lingcod. It works really well for me, In fact I have more faith with my jig than live bait. BUT, I'm not using the shimano flat fall. Shimano's flat fall was one of the first generations of flat fall jigs, it's rarely seen now in japan because the newer ones works so much better. Try some "Seafloor control" flat fall jigs, especially the "Rector", I caught almost anything with that jig. Lingcod is especially attracted to it. You don't need to cast, just drop it vertically to the bottom, depent on what you are try to catch, for rock fish and lingcod, just do slow up lift near the bottom and then drop back, repeat. For YT, do punchy fast up lifts continuesly to the surface with some random drops. oh, you also need a "slow pitch jigging" rod, those rods are skinny with bouncy tips, the jig will dance better and be more attractive. I just bought my first kayak, I think pretty soon I will be slow jigging on a kayak, maybe I'll try county line or LJ first.

07-21-2017, 01:08 PM	#12
Mahigeer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,897	They work great.

07-21-2017, 01:55 PM	#13
Baja_Traveler Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Table 17, Bay Park Fish Co. Posts: 943	Did a quick websearch for the Seafloor Control jigs - the only place I could find them in the US was from someone on Ebay - for $30 apiece.

07-21-2017, 02:10 PM	#15
Bruntoj Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: San Diego County Posts: 168	I cast the 100g (3oz I think) Shimanos with my MH Teramar and Tranx400 with 50lb braid and 6-8ft 40lb fluoro leader. Sometimes casting and sometimes just dropping it. Keeps me busy while I soak livebait on flyline and dropper. Besides bass and rockfish I've caught a soupfin shark and a 25lb'ish YT. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

07-21-2017, 02:57 PM	#17
jimichu Junior Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Pasadena Posts: 8	he's one pic from japanese angler Totos's blog, one jig, two amberjack:

07-21-2017, 09:12 PM	#19
jimichu Junior Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Pasadena Posts: 8	I'm just offering my honest expeience as the post is asking for. If anybody feels I'm a jig seller, plz just ignore what I've said and go on with your favorite flat fall. I'm a jigger and I use many different brand of jigs, what I mentioned is just one if them.

07-21-2017, 11:16 PM	#20
WestFork Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Utah Posts: 46	Lots of good stuff in this thread. The key point is if the boat is fishing deep, your flatfalls have to get down at about the same rate as what others are using or there will be ugly tangles. :-( Flatfalls will take most everything at the right time from sharks to snapper to YT. They won't necessarily be the best all the time. Example: irons typically "swim" better so can be more productive on near-surface fish. There are some great painted/printed/adhesive finishes on flatfalls that get scarred, chewed off and otherwise damaged in use. Finally, as a great Norwegian trout fisherman sagely remarked, 100% of the fish are caught...on what the fishermen are using. :-) Good luck and tight lines!