Overflowing kayatank

[dgax65]

Originally Posted by aguachico

Dan; that timer is great. Too bad it isn't water proof. It's designed for a console of a boat, that is unless they changed the design. If it is the same one, I went thru 3 of them, the inevitable salt water intrusion has begun...

I had one of those (made by Patriot or Minute Man?) and it started rusting after the first trip. You can waterproof those to a degree. After it is wired up, coat the entire body of the timer switch with liquid electrical tape (Starbrite). It might take a couple of coats. Let it cure for a few days until it sets hard. Then put dielectric grease on the switch shaft and the potentiometer shaft. The last step is to put a rubber boot on the switch. Note: use wire markers so you know what each lead is-the Starbrite covers up all the markings on the switch.

OR......

You can just get one of the timers from Angler's Yak Shack that suits your needs. Their timers are potted and, as far as I can tell, damn near indestructible.

[Dan W.]

It is not waterproof, you are right. BUT, it has lasted maybe 3 years now zip-tied to the top of the intake hose with no housing or waterproof box or anything.

[madscientist]

Originally Posted by dgax65

You can just get one of the timers from Angler's Yak Shack that suits your needs. Their timers are potted and, as far as I can tell, damn near indestructible.

Unless you hook them up with the reverse polarity.

Don't ask me how I know that.

[Siebler]

Gitrevan, Call me 858-715-4669 and well work it out.

For the others, yes our timers are 100% waterproof but like brad said, Dont hook them up backwards and always protect with a 5amp fuse.

[madscientist]

Hey CJ, what's the fuse actually for? I got sick of corroded fuses and breakers over a year ago and have been running all my stuff without them with no problems. Before I canned the whole thing, I was using 2.5amp circuit breakers instead of fuses and they worked fine until they corroded. Am I at risk of melting a hole in the yak if I get a short somewhere?

[Siebler]

As far as I know (I just sell the things ) The fuse is there just to keep the sensitive internal parts from blowing, Same deal as not hooking it up reversed polarity.

To keep the warranty on your tiemr you must use this fuse. However from personal experience I know that these timers can handle more than 5 amps for some time without blowing. I have run one of my hunting decoys on a switch with no fuse all season long. The motor on this thing is a 28lb trolling motor unit. Draws a lot more than 5 amps and It still works.

[nmbrinkman]

Originally Posted by madscientist

Hey CJ, what's the fuse actually for? I got sick of corroded fuses and breakers over a year ago and have been running all my stuff without them with no problems. Before I canned the whole thing, I was using 2.5amp circuit breakers instead of fuses and they worked fine until they corroded. Am I at risk of melting a hole in the yak if I get a short somewhere?

A while back I ruined a timer switch and Mo fixed it for me. He wired in a "prototype" that doesn't get ruined when you "reverse the polarity". Not sure if it made it past the prototype stage or what but I assume it was a good idea. Haven't tested it yet though.

I got tired as well of corrosing in the inline fuse. I went to west marine and wired in a chip style fuse holder. It seems to be a heckuva lot more waterproof than the first one. I also had issues with the cable going to the battery. That wasn't such an easy find for me. I ended up rewiring the whole system from scratch. I also noticed a lot of corrosion in the spade style connectors... even with the plastic shields around them they still corroded. I went with open ended butt connectors with the heatshrink already on it. Then I covered the whole thing in liquid electrical tape. Sure, I can't disconnect the harness to trouble shoot but now, hopefully I won't ever have to. Or I'll just buy a multimeter.

This , by the way, isn't a knock on the Kayatank design. I am hard on my gear and my kayak has leaks topside. Saltwater gets in and inevitably things are going to fail.

[buki]

Originally Posted by madscientist

Hey CJ, what's the fuse actually for? I got sick of corroded fuses and breakers over a year ago and have been running all my stuff without them with no problems. Before I canned the whole thing, I was using 2.5amp circuit breakers instead of fuses and they worked fine until they corroded. Am I at risk of melting a hole in the yak if I get a short somewhere?

I accidentally shorted some components on a circuit board and it caught on fire. The fire wasn't as big as the one in your avatar, but I'm sure my expression was the same. You should use a fuse. Things will get hot if there is a short.

[Siebler]

I am pretty sure that due to the potting you would not have a fire if the timer shorted. Im not saying that it will not happen, But I know for a fact that the potting is hard to catch on fire (ive poured molten lead on scrap before and it did little more than smoke and melt slightly.

And Brad, Why are you worried about fire? Cant be any worse than the BBQ right?

[Iceman]

As far as why put in a fuse, I don't use a fuse on a $20 pump, but add a $49 timer and I would ,as well as any F/F.

[madscientist]

Originally Posted by Iceman

As far as why put in a fuse, I don't use a fuse on a $20 pump, but add a $49 timer and I would ,as well as any F/F.

Andy, I wonder if our batteries can really put out enough juice to fry the circuits of a functioning device. I can see it on a boat but with a simple battery circuit and no potential capacitance elements, I'm not sure where the surge would come from, unless the device itself had already taken a crap. I guess that's my question, is the fuse there to protect the device in case the circuit fails, or is it there to protect the boat in case the device or circuit fails?

[scwafish]

Andy, I wonder if our batteries can really put out enough juice to fry the circuits of a functioning device

YES. The AGM batteries we use are 12v...the same as a car battery, just less storage. They pack more than enough mojo to ruin your day.

I guess that's my question, is the fuse there to protect the device in case the circuit fails, or is it there to protect the boat in case the device or circuit fails?

Both.

[JrBasser]

From What I know, the fuse is only a real neccessity if you are running more than one device off a single battery. And mailnly on a boat. for instance, if you turn on your boat and your fish finder and bilge pump turn on simultaniously, all the power drawn can be sent to one unit blowing it. As far as the timer switches catching fire, I have had 1 in my year of working for AYS smoke, and that was it. The circuit boards are very sensitive and the pathway burns very easy. Meaning that if something shorts, the pathway for the electrical current will blow almost immediately losing its ability to conduct the electricity, so no fires can generate.

[dgax65]

I wouldn't expect a fire in the potted timer switch or a fishfinder. The electrical system should be fused to protect your kayak in the event of a short circuit. A dead short between positive and negative wires would cause a catastrophic failure of the battery. Before the battery is destroyed (seconds), enough heat will be generated in the affected wires and the battery itself to melt a hole in your kayak. You probably won't have a fire, because the water filling your kayak will put it out.

That is a worse case scenario. The chances of a dead short are slim.

More likely is a situation where you have corrosion or mechanical wear on wires that breaks down the insulation and results in arcing and overheating the wires. It may not be the flash-bang that you would get with a dead short, but it could definitely create enough heat to melt the PE hull or ignite the insulation. PE has a relatively low melting point. If your wiring is in contact with the bottom or sides of the hull you could melt through and start taking on water.

The basic 12vDC 7A-hr battery that it used on most kayaks has more than enough energy to cause catastrophic damage to a kayak. The use of a properly rated fuse on the positive lead close to the battery will nearly eliminate the possibility of such an accident.

The in-line waterproof fuse holders for the standard AGC fuses don't hold up well in kayaks. The cheap metal fuse clips will rust easily and they really aren't very waterproof. Its better to use the ATC (automotive blade-type) fuse and waterproof holder.


ATC on the top. AGC below.

A little silicone grease around the cap of the ATC fuse holder will keep it waterproof. A small amount of dielectric grease on the blades will prevent corrosion.

I would not recommend using circuit breakers on a kayak. A circuit breaker is just a spring-loaded switch with an automatic trip. They are very susceptible to corrosion as is any switch. Using a mechanical trip in an environment that is conducive to corrosion is just not a good practice. Fuses have no moving parts that can stop working if rusted. Go with a fuse.

Batteries should be kept in waterproof bags or boxes.

Fishfinders and GPS units are fused to protect their delicate circuitry from voltage transients. This is more of an issue with motor driven alternators. You won't get many transients on a battery powered electrical system. The starting surge for the bait tank pump will cause small fluctuations in voltage. I've seen 0.2vDC transients in bus voltage as my Kayatank 500gph pump cycles. That's isn't going to hurt your FF. A shorted/corroded connector plug is a more likely cause of failure of your FF. Having a properly sized fuse on the FF power cord might prevent damage to the unit in this situation.