LEGAL QUESTION FOR TRUCK EXTENDER PEOPLE - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

wiredantz · 08-20-2014, 08:30 AM

The law says:

REAR LOAD EXTENSIONS

EXTENSIONS TO THE REAR:
Per CVC Section 35410, the load upon a vehicle, trailer or semitrailer shall not extend to the rear beyond the last point of support for a greater distance than that equal to two-thirds of the length of the wheelbase. The wheelbase of a semitrailer shall be considered as the distance between the rearmost axle of the towing vehicle and the rearmost axle of the semitrailer.

Question:

Is a 4ft truck extender considered the last point of support?
http://www.amazon.com/Extend-A-Truck...truck+extender

If my wheel base length is 10ft.9inches that means 2/3 of that would be 7ft2inches, which means that no more than 7ft 2inches can stick out from the truck extender?

jruiz · 08-20-2014, 08:46 AM

I personally read it that way. I know sometimes LE measure from tail lights regardless of whether you have an extender.

Ricsen · 08-20-2014, 09:08 AM

Based on the wording of the section, I think you have it figured right also. On CVC questions.....your local CHP office is a good place to call and inquire. They primarily enforce those statutes and might be able to help on an answer. Just a thought.

wiredantz · 08-20-2014, 10:38 AM

Ok so I called CHP:

the question I am asking:

Can a pickup truck extension that hooks on to your hitch be considered the last point of support for hauling cargo?

777 W. Washington Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90015
Los Angeles County
(213) 744-2331
Southern Division

1 chp officer:
said hmmm.... let me transfer you.... to the front desk

2nd chp officer: I don't handle those questions call our commercial unit or DMV. I said but Sir" I said I don't answer those question DO YOU Want the number or not!
he gave me the number
323-644-9557

3rd CHP Officer I called. Officer jimenez answered:

that's a good question I don't know let me transfer you to the motor unit:

4th CHP officer Jean: I don't know the answer let me transfer you to the commercial unit.... Sir they are not picking up, call back within an hour

Thank you our local CHP.

jruiz · 08-20-2014, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredantz

Ok so I called CHP:

the question I am asking:

Can a pickup truck extension that hooks on to your hitch be considered the last point of support for hauling cargo?

777 W. Washington Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90015
Los Angeles County
(213) 744-2331
Southern Division

1 chp officer:
said hmmm.... let me transfer you.... to the front desk

2nd chp officer: I don't handle those questions call our commercial unit or DMV. I said but Sir" I said I don't answer those question DO YOU Want the number or not!
he gave me the number
323-644-9557

3rd CHP Officer I called. Officer jimenez answered:

that's a good question I don't know let me transfer you to the motor unit:

4th CHP officer Jean: I don't know the answer let me transfer you to the commercial unit.... Sir they are not picking up, call back within an hour

Thank you our local CHP.

Call dunkin donuts

Hunters Pa · 08-20-2014, 11:11 AM

Maybe ask this guy

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/h...ffic-toll.html

He seems to help get answers that askers have trouble getting addressed

Deamon · 08-20-2014, 12:48 PM

Maybe leave it be. Why stir up new revenue sources for them? We're already doing it and I don't hear anyone complaining about tickets. I've had a few pass me this year without even a glance.

bus kid · 08-20-2014, 01:27 PM

It depends on the LEO.
either the end of your tail gate when its down or tail lights.

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...light=extender

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...light=extender

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...light=extender

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...light=extender

bwana · 08-20-2014, 02:20 PM

I have a full sized pick up, with a steel box taking up a portion of the bed.

I have used a hitch extender for almost a decade to haul around my 14' kayak.

According to the CHP officer that pulled me over, I am not CA legal as the kayak is extending too far beyond the rear of the truck.

He pulled me over for speeding, not due to the kayak.

After requesting my license, registration and insurance he asked how I came about my flag.

I told him my daughter looked at me a little funny one day when I asked her if she had any old red laced bras I could have.

After that he let me go with a verbal warning to slow down. I have used one style or another of my "red flag" ever since.

wiredantz · 08-20-2014, 02:23 PM

That is HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!

tacmik · 08-20-2014, 03:32 PM

The answer is NO. When I first got my T-13, I went to the CHP office in El Cajon. The officer seemed to have all the answers immediately with no pauses to have to think. He said that if you take the length of your vehicle excluding the bumpers, divide by two. That is how far out you can extend with or without a hitch extender. The extender is merely for support. i.e. if your vehicle is 16 ft front to back, excluding bumpers. Your kayak can extend 8 feet from back of truck. If your tailgate is down, that doesn't count toward how far you can extend.

wiredantz · 08-20-2014, 05:02 PM

I wish CVC could provide a legal definition of " the last point of support", because it seems to leave the interpretation of this part of the law to CHP. (well many of the laws) This is probably the reason why, very few if any have gotten a ticket for this.

the Webster dictionary defines "Support" it as: v. t. 1. To bear by being under; to keep from falling; to uphold; to sustain, in a literal or physical sense; to prop up; to bear the weight of; as, a pillar supports a structure; an abutment supports an arch; the trunk of a tree supports the branches.

I would like to see how a court judge would rule on this matter, since you can argue that a truckbed extender is the last point of support for the kayak.

just a thought if anyone receives a citation for this.

But if you do get pulled over, I would not argue over it. Just go to court and see what happens.

wiredantz · 08-21-2014, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacmik

The answer is NO. When I first got my T-13, I went to the CHP office in El Cajon. The officer seemed to have all the answers immediately with no pauses to have to think. He said that if you take the length of your vehicle excluding the bumpers, divide by two. That is how far out you can extend with or without a hitch extender. The extender is merely for support. i.e. if your vehicle is 16 ft front to back, excluding bumpers. Your kayak can extend 8 feet from back of truck. If your tailgate is down, that doesn't count toward how far you can extend.

The officer probably didn't know about this CVC CODE...

LOAD-CARRYING EXTENSIONS

35402. (a) Any extension or device used to increase the carrying capacity of a vehicle shall be included in measuring the length of a vehicle. ...

jruiz · 08-21-2014, 01:08 PM

Is this what we expect to see behind your truck/suv?

tacmik · 08-21-2014, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredantz

The officer probably didn't know about this CVC CODE...

LOAD-CARRYING EXTENSIONS

35402. (a) Any extension or device used to increase the carrying capacity of a vehicle shall be included in measuring the length of a vehicle. ...

Asked my son (lawyer with the DA's office) Said you would lose in court. It is a support and not load bearing. Also said if you think about it, your truck is 16 ft. long, extension is 4 ft. you would be able to extend 10 ft beyond the extension. Won't fly in court. Take it for what it is worth. If you win in court, great, if not. Have a fine to pay.

wiredantz · 08-21-2014, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacmik

Asked my son (lawyer with the DA's office) Said you would lose in court. It is a support and not load bearing. Also said if you think about it, your truck is 16 ft. long, extension is 4 ft. you would be able to extend 10 ft beyond the extension. Won't fly in court. Take it for what it is worth. If you win in court, great, if not. Have a fine to pay.

well than, we are back to square one:

EXTENSIONS TO THE REAR:
Per CVC Section 35410, the load upon a vehicle, trailer or semitrailer shall not extend to the rear beyond the last point of supportfor a greater distance than that equal to two-thirds of the length of the wheelbase. The wheelbase of a semitrailer shall be considered as the distance between the rearmost axle of the towing vehicle and the rearmost axle of the semitrailer.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____

True it is not load bearing, it is for support. So if they say that it is a support;then technically it is the last point of support, and you should be able to extend two-thirds of the length of the wheelbase not exceeding the 40 ft rule.

35400. (a) A vehicle may not exceed a length of 40 feet.

I am just reading the law with my own interpretation so take them with a grain of salt.

bubblehide · 08-21-2014, 10:43 PM

Your thinking about tris all Rontgen. The regulation is talking about the vehicle, and it's wheel base. It then states that nothing can extend past the end of the truco, beyond 2/3 of the wheel base. The end of the truck being the end of the bed. The issue with extending cargo beyond the vehicle is that when making a turn from one street to another, or on sharp turns, and left turns, your vehicle, including cargo can occupy more than one lane. In the past, I have hauled irrigation pipe on a trailer, it often hung off the trailer by 15 or more feet. As such, when I made a left turn the pipe would be blocking the number 1 and 2 lanes of traffic ( heading in the direction I was going if I had not turned). As such, if I did not wait to make my turn, until all through traffic had cleared, I could have had a car run right into my load. So in short, such a load may be legal, but it can be very dangerous. So, if your load is sticking out, way past the end of the bed, be careful.

Redeyejedi · 08-22-2014, 02:09 PM

after a few minutes on the phone with chp codes 35410 and 24604 apply. the support doesn't add "length" not already permissable by law. 2/3 wheelbase is max, if 4ft or more, red flag 12"x12" square for daytime and lamps for night. the bed extender or like device doesn't give you the length the longer wheel base does.
i was specific about kayak transport, and there is also code for front hangover length and view obstruction rules. i could go roof, but i'm not very tall the truck is.
he said as long as it's not obnoxious and not in violation of any other codes, you should be ok. i've always loved those words from an officer; 'you should be ok'.
hope this helps.

Wintersun · 09-05-2014, 03:40 PM

As a practical manner I have a standard bed pickup with a 6.5 foot bed and when transporting a 15' long kayak it was too long even with the bed extender with more movement than I would want for a long drive down the highway at speed. Another 12' long kayak of mine was not a problem when transported with the extender.

I now have two 13'5" long kayaks and they go either on the roof rack or on the Yakima trailer for transport. I prefer this approach as I can have my gear locked in the bed of the truck with its fiberglass cap in place and not worry about things getting legs.

08-20-2014, 08:30 AM	#1
wiredantz Currently @ MLO Territory Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Under the Shadow Posts: 2,290	LEGAL QUESTION FOR TRUCK EXTENDER PEOPLE The law says: REAR LOAD EXTENSIONS EXTENSIONS TO THE REAR: Per CVC Section 35410, the load upon a vehicle, trailer or semitrailer shall not extend to the rear beyond the last point of support for a greater distance than that equal to two-thirds of the length of the wheelbase. The wheelbase of a semitrailer shall be considered as the distance between the rearmost axle of the towing vehicle and the rearmost axle of the semitrailer. Question: Is a 4ft truck extender considered the last point of support? http://www.amazon.com/Extend-A-Truck...truck+extender If my wheel base length is 10ft.9inches that means 2/3 of that would be 7ft2inches, which means that no more than 7ft 2inches can stick out from the truck extender? __________________ Team: Disbanded You only have one chance in this life...make the right decision(s)...so you don't regret it

08-20-2014, 10:38 AM	#4
wiredantz Currently @ MLO Territory Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Under the Shadow Posts: 2,290	Ok so I called CHP: the question I am asking: Can a pickup truck extension that hooks on to your hitch be considered the last point of support for hauling cargo? 777 W. Washington Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90015 Los Angeles County (213) 744-2331 Southern Division 1 chp officer: said hmmm.... let me transfer you.... to the front desk 2nd chp officer: I don't handle those questions call our commercial unit or DMV. I said but Sir" I said I don't answer those question DO YOU Want the number or not! he gave me the number 323-644-9557 3rd CHP Officer I called. Officer jimenez answered: that's a good question I don't know let me transfer you to the motor unit: 4th CHP officer Jean: I don't know the answer let me transfer you to the commercial unit.... Sir they are not picking up, call back within an hour Thank you our local CHP. __________________ Team: Disbanded You only have one chance in this life...make the right decision(s)...so you don't regret it

08-20-2014, 01:27 PM	#8
bus kid Team Keine Zugehörigkeit Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Way out there Posts: 2,854	search is you friend young Frankwalker It depends on the LEO. either the end of your tail gate when its down or tail lights. http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...light=extender http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...light=extender http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...light=extender http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/s...light=extender __________________ Não alimente os trolls------------Don't feed the trolls---------------インタネット荒らしを無視しろ

08-20-2014, 02:20 PM	#9
bwana Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: El Toro, CA Posts: 244	Simple solution... I have a full sized pick up, with a steel box taking up a portion of the bed. I have used a hitch extender for almost a decade to haul around my 14' kayak. According to the CHP officer that pulled me over, I am not CA legal as the kayak is extending too far beyond the rear of the truck. He pulled me over for speeding, not due to the kayak. After requesting my license, registration and insurance he asked how I came about my flag. I told him my daughter looked at me a little funny one day when I asked her if she had any old red laced bras I could have. After that he let me go with a verbal warning to slow down. I have used one style or another of my "red flag" ever since.

08-20-2014, 02:23 PM	#10
wiredantz Currently @ MLO Territory Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Under the Shadow Posts: 2,290	That is HILARIOUS!!!!!!!! __________________ Team: Disbanded You only have one chance in this life...make the right decision(s)...so you don't regret it

08-20-2014, 08:46 AM	#2
jruiz Large Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: La Verne, CA Posts: 1,011	I personally read it that way. I know sometimes LE measure from tail lights regardless of whether you have an extender.

08-20-2014, 09:08 AM	#3
Ricsen Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 65	Based on the wording of the section, I think you have it figured right also. On CVC questions.....your local CHP office is a good place to call and inquire. They primarily enforce those statutes and might be able to help on an answer. Just a thought.

08-20-2014, 11:11 AM	#6
Hunters Pa Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Fullerton Posts: 1,360	Maybe ask this guy http://www.ocregister.com/articles/h...ffic-toll.html He seems to help get answers that askers have trouble getting addressed

08-20-2014, 12:48 PM	#7
Deamon Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,972	Maybe leave it be. Why stir up new revenue sources for them? We're already doing it and I don't hear anyone complaining about tickets. I've had a few pass me this year without even a glance.

08-20-2014, 03:32 PM	#11
tacmik Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: East County Posts: 914	The answer is NO. When I first got my T-13, I went to the CHP office in El Cajon. The officer seemed to have all the answers immediately with no pauses to have to think. He said that if you take the length of your vehicle excluding the bumpers, divide by two. That is how far out you can extend with or without a hitch extender. The extender is merely for support. i.e. if your vehicle is 16 ft front to back, excluding bumpers. Your kayak can extend 8 feet from back of truck. If your tailgate is down, that doesn't count toward how far you can extend. __________________

08-20-2014, 05:02 PM	#12
wiredantz Currently @ MLO Territory Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Under the Shadow Posts: 2,290	I wish CVC could provide a legal definition of " the last point of support", because it seems to leave the interpretation of this part of the law to CHP. (well many of the laws) This is probably the reason why, very few if any have gotten a ticket for this. the Webster dictionary defines "Support" it as: v. t. 1. To bear by being under; to keep from falling; to uphold; to sustain, in a literal or physical sense; to prop up; to bear the weight of; as, a pillar supports a structure; an abutment supports an arch; the trunk of a tree supports the branches. I would like to see how a court judge would rule on this matter, since you can argue that a truckbed extender is the last point of support for the kayak. just a thought if anyone receives a citation for this. But if you do get pulled over, I would not argue over it. Just go to court and see what happens. __________________ Team: Disbanded You only have one chance in this life...make the right decision(s)...so you don't regret it

08-21-2014, 01:08 PM	#14
jruiz Large Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: La Verne, CA Posts: 1,011	Is this what we expect to see behind your truck/suv?

08-21-2014, 10:43 PM	#17
bubblehide Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 552	Your thinking about tris all Rontgen. The regulation is talking about the vehicle, and it's wheel base. It then states that nothing can extend past the end of the truco, beyond 2/3 of the wheel base. The end of the truck being the end of the bed. The issue with extending cargo beyond the vehicle is that when making a turn from one street to another, or on sharp turns, and left turns, your vehicle, including cargo can occupy more than one lane. In the past, I have hauled irrigation pipe on a trailer, it often hung off the trailer by 15 or more feet. As such, when I made a left turn the pipe would be blocking the number 1 and 2 lanes of traffic ( heading in the direction I was going if I had not turned). As such, if I did not wait to make my turn, until all through traffic had cleared, I could have had a car run right into my load. So in short, such a load may be legal, but it can be very dangerous. So, if your load is sticking out, way past the end of the bed, be careful.

08-22-2014, 02:09 PM	#18
Redeyejedi Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Westside Posts: 141	after a few minutes on the phone with chp codes 35410 and 24604 apply. the support doesn't add "length" not already permissable by law. 2/3 wheelbase is max, if 4ft or more, red flag 12"x12" square for daytime and lamps for night. the bed extender or like device doesn't give you the length the longer wheel base does. i was specific about kayak transport, and there is also code for front hangover length and view obstruction rules. i could go roof, but i'm not very tall the truck is. he said as long as it's not obnoxious and not in violation of any other codes, you should be ok. i've always loved those words from an officer; 'you should be ok'. hope this helps.

09-05-2014, 03:40 PM	#19
Wintersun Junior Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 22	As a practical manner I have a standard bed pickup with a 6.5 foot bed and when transporting a 15' long kayak it was too long even with the bed extender with more movement than I would want for a long drive down the highway at speed. Another 12' long kayak of mine was not a problem when transported with the extender. I now have two 13'5" long kayaks and they go either on the roof rack or on the Yakima trailer for transport. I prefer this approach as I can have my gear locked in the bed of the truck with its fiberglass cap in place and not worry about things getting legs.