Umbrella Rigs... - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

PapaDave · 03-13-2012, 02:24 PM

A freind of mine told me to try one of these out, which I did, but no luck so far, although being new to them I may be doing something wrong. I believe that for saltwater you can only have two hooks rigged while the other points are dummies.

Any thoughts on these? Are they allowed for tournaments? Do they work? Any suggestions to get them to work?

I know of a disadvantage, and that is all the extra hardware getting caught on fishing line, poles and anything else. Of course, for me, that is not unusual, just call me Mr. Tangles.

addicted2sp33d · 03-13-2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapaDCh

just call me Mr. Tangles.

Mister Mo Tangles?

YakMedic · 03-13-2012, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapaDCh

I believe that for saltwater you can only have two hooks rigged while the other points are dummies.

They can be all rigged with hooks as long as you are not targeting rockfish or already have rockfish on your yak.

I have used them with moderate success with striped bass, it is basically giving the impression of a small group of baitfish. They are kind of a pain to use and unhooking a fish can get interesting (think sabiki on PCP). It is quite a lot of drag trolling just use a heavier rod to compensate.

fknricter · 03-14-2012, 12:07 AM

My understanding is only 3 hooks allowed in CA, Charkbait even offers a 3 arm Alabama rig do you can't go wrong, I got a couple at FHS, can't wait to toss them

YakMedic · 03-14-2012, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fknricter

My understanding is only 3 hooks allowed in CA, Charkbait even offers a 3 arm Alabama rig do you can't go wrong, I got a couple at FHS, can't wait to toss them

The 3 hook limit is a fresh water regulation. The saltwater reg is quoted below.

Per the DFG
28.65. GENERAL. Except as provided in this article, fin fish may be taken only on hook and line or by hand. Any number of hooks and lines may be used in all ocean waters and bays except:
(a) San Francisco and San Pablo bays between the Golden Gate Bridge and the west Carquinez
Bridge, where only one line with not more than three hooks may be used.
(b) On public piers, no person shall use more than two rods and lines, two hand lines, or two
nets, traps or other appliances used to take crabs.
(c) When rockfish (genus Sebastes) or lingcod (Ophiodon elongatus) are aboard or in possession, where only one line with not more than two hooks may be used pursuant to Sections
28.55 or 28.27, respectively.
(d) No gaff hook shall be used to take or assist in landing any finfish shorter than the minimum
size limit. For the purpose of this section a gaff hook is any hook with or without a handle used
to assist in landing fish or to take fish in such a manner that the fish does not take the hook voluntarily in its mouth. No person shall take finfish from any boat or other floating device in ocean
waters without having a landing net in possession or available for immediate use to assist in
landing undersize fish of species having minimum size limits; the opening of any such landing
net shall be not less than eighteen inches in diameter.
(e) North of Point Conception (34°27’00” N. lat.), where only one rod and line may be used
by each angler fishing for salmon, or fishing from any boat or floating device with salmon on
board.
(f) Mousetrap gear prohibited: It is unlawful to use, assist in using, or to possess aboard any
vessel, hook-and-line gear commonly termed “mouse traps” constructed of a hook(s) or lure(s),
attached to one end of a line that is attached to a float, or floats at the other end, and that when
fished, is not attached directly to a person or vessel. Possession of such gear aboard a vessel
shall be prima facie evidence that the gear is being used in violation of this regulation.
(g) North of Point Conception to Horse Mountain, Section 27.80(a)(3) applies to each angler
fishing for salmon or fishing from any boat or floating device with salmon on board.

taggermike · 03-14-2012, 10:46 AM

I saw a light castable model at the bass pro shops in November. It did look fishy. The big ol' heavy dredges they use for stripers on the east coast look like they'd be a PITA off a kayak. I have thought of using a heavier sinker on the bottom clip and lighter plastics above. They have some videos of guys fishing them on youtube that might be worth watching. Search "alabama rig". The Bubbas fishing them are entertaining. Mike

Yakin · 03-23-2012, 01:59 PM

Still the alabama rigs look kind of tricky to cast
Wonder how easy it would be to troll behind your kayak?

PapaDave · 03-26-2012, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakin

Still the alabama rigs look kind of tricky to cast
Wonder how easy it would be to troll behind your kayak?

That's what I was thinking of doing, trolling a school of mackerel behind me as I head out to where I am going.

Jimmyz123 · 03-26-2012, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapaDCh

A freind of mine told me to try one of these out, which I did, but no luck so far, although being new to them I may be doing something wrong. I believe that for saltwater you can only have two hooks rigged while the other points are dummies.

Check the state regs on this one before loading up all the wires with hooks. California Regs. as I have been told by two well know guides here in San Diego only permit 3 lines to have hooks on them, the other 2 lines it is recommended that you put a spinner blade to help attract the fish. Check with Bill Schaffer and James Nelson and the guys and Anglers Arsenal they can fill you in more. I'll check the reg book to see if I can see where it may be published.

Found this on California DFG:

How many hooks for sand dabs and how many for halibut?
Question: How many hooks can be used when fishing for sand dabs? I was planning on using a Sabiki rig. How many hooks can I have on such a rig? Also, how many hooks can I have on my line while fishing for halibut? Is there a limit to the number in either of these situations? (Chris Jones)

Answer:There are no hook restrictions unless rockfish or salmon are onboard. If either species is onboard, then only two hooks may be used.
Still looking for more information.

Jimmyz123 · 03-26-2012, 09:25 AM

Question: A recent innovation on the pro bass-fishing trail is something called the “Alabama Rig”, which is similar to what is called an “Umbrella Rig” by saltwater anglers. The Alabama Rig consists of five or six lures [usually plastic grubs or small swimbaits] radiating from a central attachment point by wires, imitating a school of baitfish. It looks very similar to a “mobile” that you might suspend above a baby’s crib. Since all the lures have hooks in them, would this rig be legal for inland/freshwater fishing in California for bass or other species?” (Steve C., Chico)
Answer:With the amount of money available through tournament fishing these days, anglers are constantly looking for the next big thing to help them catch more and bigger bass. We have received a lot of questions recently regarding the “Alabama Rig” and whether they are legal to use in California. Unfortunately, regulations in California differ from those in Alabama and this type of fishing tackle is not legal
According to competitive bass angler and Department of Fish and Game (DFG) Game Warden Tim Little, the traditional “Alabama Rig” is not legal to use because it contains five separate lures each with a hook. California law allows for a maximum of three lures to be used on an individual line (whether the lure has a single hook as shown in your photograph or uses three hooks as allowed by law.)
In California, “all fish may be taken only by angling with one closely attended rod and line or one hand line with not more than three hooks nor more than three artificial lures (each lure may have three hooks attached) thereto”(California Code of Regulations, section 2.00).
To legally use the Alabama Rig in California inland waters, the rig must be attached to one rod with one line and no more than three of the attached lures containing hooks. Those lures containing hooks may have no more than three hooks attached to each lure. The other two could have hookless teasers. Some people locally have even developed a modified three wire rig (now called a Cali-rig), which is legal.

YakMedic · 03-26-2012, 10:05 AM

Once again. The above-mentioned ask SCHEDULE is referring to inland waters (freshwater)not the ocean

The 3 hook limit is a fresh water regulation. The saltwater reg is quoted below.

Per the DFG 28.65. GENERAL. Except as provided in this article, fin fish may be taken only on hook and line or by hand. Any number of hooks and lines may be used in all ocean waters and bays except: (a) San Francisco and San Pablo bays between the Golden Gate Bridge and the west Carquinez Bridge, where only one line with not more than three hooks may be used. (b) On public piers, no person shall use more than two rods and lines, two hand lines, or two nets, traps or other appliances used to take crabs. (c) When rockfish (genus Sebastes) or lingcod (Ophiodon elongatus) are aboard or in possession, whereonly oneline with not more than two hooks may be used pursuant to Sections 28.55 or 28.27, respectively. (d) No gaff hook shall be used to take or assist in landing any finfish shorter than the minimum size limit. Forthepurpose of this section a gaff hook is any hook with or without a handle used to assist in landing fish or to takefish in sucha manner that the fish does not take the hook voluntarily in its mouth. No person shall take finfish from any boat or other floating device in ocean waters without having a landing net in possession or available for immediateuseto assist in landing undersize fish of species having minimum size limits; the opening of any such landing net shall be not less than eighteen inches in diameter. (e) North of Point Conception (34°27’00” N. lat.), where only one rod and line may be used by each anglerfishing forsalmon,or fishing from any boat or floating device with salmon on board. (f) Mousetrap gear prohibited: It is unlawful to use, assist in using,or to possessaboard any vessel,hook-and-line gear commonly termed “mouse traps” constructed of a hook(s) or lure(s), attached to one end of a line that is attached to a float, or floats at the other end, and that when fished, is not attached directly to a person or vessel. Possession of such gear aboard a vessel shall be prima facieevidence that the gear is being used in violation of this regulation. (g) North of Point Conception to Horse Mountain, Section 27.80(a)(3) applies to each angler fishing for salmon or fishing from any boat or floating device with salmon on board.

Jimmyz123 · 03-26-2012, 01:01 PM

Going off what I have been told by 2 professional guides that make a living knowing the regs, and others that sell the rigs, I think I'm pretty sure that the rule applies to Salt and Freshwater. If you were at the Open Bay Bass tournament meeting held they spoke of the rig and showed exactly how we are allowed to rig them. That was for Bay fishing, I will stick to what I've been told by some pros, the rigs are up and coming and are fun to fish.

Jimmyz123 · 03-26-2012, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyz123

Found this on California DFG:

How many hooks for sand dabs and how many for halibut?
Question: How many hooks can be used when fishing for sand dabs? I was planning on using a Sabiki rig. How many hooks can I have on such a rig? Also, how many hooks can I have on my line while fishing for halibut? Is there a limit to the number in either of these situations? (Chris Jones)

Answer: There are no hook restrictions unless rockfish or salmon are onboard. If either species is onboard, then only two hooks may be used.
Still looking for more information.

I think that covers us in the Ocean as well.

YakMedic · 03-26-2012, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyz123

Answer:There are no hook restrictions unless rockfish or salmon are onboard. If either species is onboard, then only two hooks may be used.
Still looking for more information.

You keep posting the answer but you must be misunderstanding it. There are no hook restrictions unless rockfish or salmon is onboard.

Why would you listen to a guide as opposed to reading the actual regulation. It is black and white just read the dfg regulation.

Jimmyz123 · 03-26-2012, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YakMedic

You keep posting the answer but you must be misunderstanding it. There are no hook restrictions unless rockfish or salmon is onboard.

Why would you listen to a guide as opposed to reading the actual regulation. It is black and white just read the dfg regulation.

Because it's their job to know what the DFG allows and does not allow. Would you go fishing with a guide or captain that did not guide by what the DFG regulations dictate? The two guys I am talking about are probably San Diego's most well known guides and I for one would listen to what they said when it comes to rules.

I read what the DFG is stating, and I do not believe that was written with the Alabama rigs in mind. Keep your eyes open for updates that will include the Alabama rigs for Saltwater and Freshwater.

Don't get me wrong I see your point, but I just don't think the reg books have caught up with the new gear yet. I apologize if anything that I have typed came across the wrong way. Not trying to be a jerk here, and I know you're not also. As we all know our DFG isn't the most with it group of people.

YakMedic · 03-26-2012, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyz123

As we all know our DFG isn't the most with it group of people.

Well at least I agree with you there.

mazilla · 03-26-2012, 05:54 PM

Old salts and old cops...too often they're stuck in whatever regulations were around when they were still green(with the exception of the "big changes"). I'd stick to the book in this case, it's the only thing you can use in court.

kobra · 03-26-2012, 10:20 PM

Sunday morning before the Fred Hall show started, a couple of DFG wardens were heading to their booth and passed close by. We were just debating the number of hooks that could be used in the salt so I asked them. They said "let's go look it up." One of them picked up the regs booklet and read it to me. Then he showed me the section that he was reading and it was exactly what YakMedic posted. 28.65
So according to him, 3 hooks in the fresh and 5 hooks in the salt.

03-13-2012, 02:24 PM	#1
PapaDave Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Menifee, CA Posts: 1,473	Umbrella Rigs... A freind of mine told me to try one of these out, which I did, but no luck so far, although being new to them I may be doing something wrong. I believe that for saltwater you can only have two hooks rigged while the other points are dummies. Any thoughts on these? Are they allowed for tournaments? Do they work? Any suggestions to get them to work? I know of a disadvantage, and that is all the extra hardware getting caught on fishing line, poles and anything else. Of course, for me, that is not unusual, just call me Mr. Tangles.

03-14-2012, 12:07 AM	#4
fknricter Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: redlands, ca Posts: 118	My understanding is only 3 hooks allowed in CA, Charkbait even offers a 3 arm Alabama rig do you can't go wrong, I got a couple at FHS, can't wait to toss them __________________

03-26-2012, 09:25 AM	#10
Jimmyz123 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,385	Alabama Rig in California answer *Question:* A recent innovation on the pro bass-fishing trail is something called the “Alabama Rig”, which is similar to what is called an “Umbrella Rig” by saltwater anglers. The Alabama Rig consists of five or six lures [usually plastic grubs or small swimbaits] radiating from a central attachment point by wires, imitating a school of baitfish. It looks very similar to a “mobile” that you might suspend above a baby’s crib. Since all the lures have hooks in them, would this rig be legal for inland/freshwater fishing in California for bass or other species?” (Steve C., Chico) *Answer:With the amount of money available through tournament fishing these days, anglers are constantly looking for the next big thing to help them catch more and bigger bass. We have received a lot of questions recently regarding the “Alabama Rig” and whether they are legal to use in California. Unfortunately, regulations in California differ from those in Alabama and this type of fishing tackle is not legal According to competitive bass angler and Department of Fish and Game (DFG) Game Warden Tim Little, the traditional “Alabama Rig” is not legal to use because it contains five separate lures each with a hook. California law allows for a maximum of three lures to be used on an individual line (whether the lure has a single hook as shown in your photograph or uses three hooks as allowed by law.) In California, “all fish may be taken only by angling with one closely attended rod and line or one hand line with not more than three hooks nor more than three artificial lures (each lure may have three hooks attached)* thereto”(California Code of Regulations, section 2.00). To legally use the Alabama Rig in California inland waters, the rig must be attached to one rod with one line and no more than three of the attached lures containing hooks. Those lures containing hooks may have no more than three hooks attached to each lure. The other two could have hookless teasers. Some people locally have even developed a modified three wire rig (now called a Cali-rig), which is legal. __________________ No better time than being on the water, God Bless, JimmyZ

03-26-2012, 01:01 PM	#12
Jimmyz123 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,385	Going off what I have been told by 2 professional guides that make a living knowing the regs, and others that sell the rigs, I think I'm pretty sure that the rule applies to Salt and Freshwater. If you were at the Open Bay Bass tournament meeting held they spoke of the rig and showed exactly how we are allowed to rig them. That was for Bay fishing, I will stick to what I've been told by some pros, the rigs are up and coming and are fun to fish. __________________ No better time than being on the water, God Bless, JimmyZ

03-14-2012, 10:46 AM	#6
taggermike Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chula Vista Posts: 1,589	I saw a light castable model at the bass pro shops in November. It did look fishy. The big ol' heavy dredges they use for stripers on the east coast look like they'd be a PITA off a kayak. I have thought of using a heavier sinker on the bottom clip and lighter plastics above. They have some videos of guys fishing them on youtube that might be worth watching. Search "alabama rig". The Bubbas fishing them are entertaining. Mike

03-23-2012, 01:59 PM	#7
Yakin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: San Bernardino, CA Posts: 913	Still the alabama rigs look kind of tricky to cast Wonder how easy it would be to troll behind your kayak?

03-26-2012, 10:05 AM	#11
YakMedic Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Wrightwood Posts: 623	Once again. The above-mentioned ask SCHEDULE is referring to inland waters (freshwater)not the ocean The 3 hook limit is a fresh water regulation. The saltwater reg is quoted below. Per the DFG 28.65. GENERAL. Except as provided in this article, fin fish may be taken only on hook and line or by hand. Any number of hooks and lines may be used in all ocean waters and bays except: (a) San Francisco and San Pablo bays between the Golden Gate Bridge and the west Carquinez Bridge, where only one line with not more than three hooks may be used. (b) On public piers, no person shall use more than two rods and lines, two hand lines, or two nets, traps or other appliances used to take crabs. (c) When rockfish (genus Sebastes) or lingcod (Ophiodon elongatus) are aboard or in possession, whereonly oneline with not more than two hooks may be used pursuant to Sections 28.55 or 28.27, respectively. (d) No gaff hook shall be used to take or assist in landing any finfish shorter than the minimum size limit. Forthepurpose of this section a gaff hook is any hook with or without a handle used to assist in landing fish or to takefish in sucha manner that the fish does not take the hook voluntarily in its mouth. No person shall take finfish from any boat or other floating device in ocean waters without having a landing net in possession or available for immediateuseto assist in landing undersize fish of species having minimum size limits; the opening of any such landing net shall be not less than eighteen inches in diameter. (e) North of Point Conception (34°27’00” N. lat.), where only one rod and line may be used by each anglerfishing forsalmon,or fishing from any boat or floating device with salmon on board. (f) Mousetrap gear prohibited: It is unlawful to use, assist in using,or to possessaboard any vessel,hook-and-line gear commonly termed “mouse traps” constructed of a hook(s) or lure(s), attached to one end of a line that is attached to a float, or floats at the other end, and that when fished, is not attached directly to a person or vessel. Possession of such gear aboard a vessel shall be prima facieevidence that the gear is being used in violation of this regulation. (g) North of Point Conception to Horse Mountain, Section 27.80(a)(3) applies to each angler fishing for salmon or fishing from any boat or floating device with salmon on board.

03-26-2012, 05:54 PM	#17
mazilla advocatus diaboli Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: San Diego Posts: 154	Old salts and old cops...too often they're stuck in whatever regulations were around when they were still green(with the exception of the "big changes"). I'd stick to the book in this case, it's the only thing you can use in court.

03-26-2012, 10:20 PM	#18
kobra Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: oceanside Posts: 880	Sunday morning before the Fred Hall show started, a couple of DFG wardens were heading to their booth and passed close by. We were just debating the number of hooks that could be used in the salt so I asked them. They said "let's go look it up." One of them picked up the regs booklet and read it to me. Then he showed me the section that he was reading and it was exactly what YakMedic posted. 28.65 So according to him, 3 hooks in the fresh and 5 hooks in the salt.