Thanks for MLPA turnout!!

[Kiyo]

Originally Posted by Dan

That was enlightening and very cool to hear all of the passion from the kayak fishing community.

Paul, Tman, and Kurt really nailed their message, WTG! As did many others.

I found it interesting that the 3 Surfrider employee's who spoke all asked for more time for the science to catch up, and stated that they were not for or against proposal "C".

I talked to all three of them and I was encouraged to hear that while they do support the notion of creating MPA's, the process is not buku and they were officially stating that a proposal that whacks all of Laguna (these were from the HQ and Orange County Chapters) was not acceptable as ~40% of their members were also fisherman, including the guy I was talking to. I got their cards and I will continue to follow up on their position and involvement going forward.

We sat right behind them and they weren't too happy. Every time a black shirt went over the time allowed they would look at each other and put their hands up in a way to say what's up? I wouldn't trust them from what we saw.

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by Holy Mackerel

It was good to talk with a lot of people, and see the show! In the end, C was not moved fwd, but doctrine from it may have life, thanks to scrambling the BRTF.

C was doomed by it's lack of compromise, it's lack of convergence of ideas from all sides.

The whole duplication argument is BS. For fisherman every mark on the map has meaning there are no duplicates.

This is not Northern California, there is only so much rocky bottom you can close without undo hardship. So as the plans go forward they will look even more alike over time until there is only one plan. The plans that went forward in this round are similar because they do reflect the hard work and meeting of the minds, the convergence the BRTF has demanded in the RSG groups.

I know that I for one am grateful for all the hard work on this put in by our reps on the RSG.

That hard work may be lost on Meg Caldwell but it's not lost on others and I'd say not and even on the other members of the BRTF.

No-one seconded Meg's initial amendment proposal to push C forward, she put herself out on a limb and lost the support of the rest of the BRTF that is a victory in itself even if she did get in a lesser amendment to keep some of C's ideas in possible play.

All the fishing oriented RSG members should feel proud. They helped expose who's willing to work in a spirit of convergence within the guidelines and who is just pushing a pre-ordained agenda.

Enjoy the victory. It may be a small one but it's one step towards the larger goal, a final solution that we can live with. That said they know what they are up against and are only going to come back at us harder.

Thanks for all the hard work!!

Jim

[DESTROYER]

I'm glad I experienced that first hand. Jim, Nate and myself stayed to talk at the general message and it felt good to get up and say out loud whats been bothering me. I will sleep good tonight! Thanks to all that showed up, cheers to you.

MaTT MoYer

[herbo]

Glad to have made it there, looked like a pretty good turn out from S.B. to S.D.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Kiyo

We sat right behind them and they weren't too happy. Every time a black shirt went over the time allowed they would look at each other and put their hands up in a way to say what's up? I wouldn't trust them from what we saw.

Surfrider definitely flirts with both sides of the fence from what I have experienced....and I often wonder what their true agenda is, at the Oxnard and LA meeting they appeared to be very anti A and very, very, pro C, A is the one we want, but then again that is from overheard conversations I have not made any efforts to talk to them. I think by Dan's interaction we may be able to lure them over to the "Black Shirts" to some degree, the more allies and friends we have the better off we will be in the end for sure!!

[buttchaser]

To all the guys that made the drive down from San Diego , THANK YOU !

[Kiyo]

A big thanks to all that showed up. It was good to see everyone and unite. Matt... I think they liked you a lot! Maybe you can cook them up something before the next meeting. They seemed more interested in eating some good food.

[Matt]

So now I'm the bad guy eh??? WTF? Is the possible suggestion of making allies a terrible idea????

[rastrev]

Matt, nothing wrong with that, know thy enemy...

I think the enviros are wising up to the fact that kayakers and spearos are a real force to be reckoned with. One of the enviros even pointed out that there is difference in the impact of a kayak fisherman and a party boat. We need to continue to show up in force and they will realize more and more that we will not compromise when it comes to specific areas such as Lajolla. I feel yesterday was a victory for kayak fishing because only 1 of the 6 proposals that is moving forward to the SAT shuts down Lajolla proper.

[Kiyo]

Originally Posted by Matt

So now I'm the bad guy eh??? WTF? Is the possible suggestion of making allies a terrible idea????

Your not a chef. I was talking about Matt Moyer the $160,000.00 to join the club chef.

[Grego]

Originally Posted by rastrev

One of the enviros even pointed out that there is difference in the impact of a kayak fisherman and a party boat.

I caught that to and a thought came to mind....I hope we intend to stick together with all the sea-kitten hunters though. And if ever tempted by the darkside (ie. yakkers/spearos can fish this area, but no boats) that we don't be sellouts and used as an extremist toy to get what they want. We might not find ourselves on a mothership again to SCI, Coronados, or Catalina...dohhhh!!! United We Stand, I say!

[Billy V]

Thank You All for showing up to support your brothers.

I want to especially thank everyone who stayed until the Public Comment portion of the meeting. -after lunch-

There was a much smaller group in the audience, and a completely different vibe when We addressed the BRTF.

The bulk of the enviros had left, but We were still there.
-Joe Zen had called a brief huddle in the middle of the room, immediately before the public comment speaking, and asked that we be brief to allow the BRTF to get on with their busy work schedule.

The people who got up to speak after that had command of the room, every one of them were spot-on, and seem to complement each other as they spoke very well and with a casual cadence that came from the heart.

I'm proud to know you guys. You stay to the bitter end and close the deal.

[zenspearo]

Originally Posted by Billy V

I want to thank everyone who stayed until the Public Comment portion of the meeting. -after lunch-

There was a much smaller group in the audience, and a completely different vibe when We addressed the BRTF.

The bulk of the enviros had left, but We were still there.
-Joe Zen had called a brief huddle in the middle of the room, immediately before the public comment speaking, and asked that we be brief to allow the BRTF to get on with their busy work schedule.

The people who got up to speak after that had command of the room, every one of them were spot-on, and seem to complement each other as they spoke very well and with a casual cadence that came from the heart.

I'm proud to know you guys. You stay to the bitter end and close the deal.

Absolute thank you and much respect for your hanging tough.

I feel bad telling people to be brief after lunch. You guys took the whole day off work, and drove a long way through the nastiest traffic on earth to be in a windowless room. And I was telling you that you shouldn't let them have it.

But strategically, after we won the morning round (not 100% but it's a win--no doubt about it. The doom-and-gloom on the faces of the remaining enviro RSG members were worth all the pain and suffering I went through), it's important to show the BRTF that even though we are dominant in that room as a sea of black shirts, we will not take advantage of the rules and make them sit until 5PM (easily--with that many people) to listen to us and then have a huge number of agenda items they have to wade through. It may backfire and start to cause resentment.

Also, there was an agenda item that the fishermen side wants to hear very much. It's about fishery management (our preferred approach to ocean management) versus the MLPA. So it's important for the BRTF to get to that agenda item and give guidance before the next RSG meeting.

Thank you very very much for understanding.

It turns out to be a genius move, although I couldn't have anticipated it. If you all detected a change in Melissa's attitude, it's because she realizes that fishermen are not all about confrontation and "no". Also, one of the black shirts went ballistic later (after I left, I heard, still trying to figure it out). By showing in advance how cooperative and understanding we were, we were immunized somewhat.

Bottomline: Thank you so much for understanding. The absolute huge number of black shirts and orange tags was the decisive factor in the morning's fight. Even though some of you didn't get to say much, you spoke the whole time with your presence and your black shirt and your "No C" orange tag.

Remember how Ray (one of the enviro RSGs) after lunch tried to paint our group as disruptive, intimidating, bullying. By showing how much we are willing to cooperate after we got what we wanted, we blunted quite a bit of it.

Even Ken Wiseman was commenting on how well organized and polite for the most part we all were. And I'm sure they have seen much worse in other regions. Even Don Benninghoven, chair of BRTF, went and hang out with the black shirts during our 10-minute pizza lunch recess.

This is how we win--play smart, keep them off balance.

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by Billy V

Thank You All for showing up to support your brothers.

I want to especially thank everyone who stayed until the Public Comment portion of the meeting. -after lunch-

There was a much smaller group in the audience, and a completely different vibe when We addressed the BRTF.

The bulk of the enviros had left, but We were still there. -Joe Zen had called a brief huddle in the middle of the room, immediately before the public comment speaking, and asked that we be brief to allow the BRTF to get on with their busy work schedule.

The people who got up to speak after that had command of the room, every one of them were spot-on, and seem to complement each other as they spoke very well and with a casual cadence that came from the heart.

I'm proud to know you guys. You stay to the bitter end and close the deal.

Yep that was pretty cool.

Actually something kind of weird happened after the public comment period was over. That I think I shoud make everyone aware of.

I stayed after all the fisherman pretty much left. I went and got a coffee then came back and was surprised to find that all the enviros had come back into the room. I saw them earlier in the lobby talking about something. Didn't see them for over an hour but they came back in at the end in force.

If I had to guess I think they strategically left then came back in force for a reason.

The speakers in the latter sections were talking about MLPA's in an enviro friendly way.

They had a MLPA expert that said MPAs are not really about fish management but habitat and "ecosystem" protection. Then they had a DFG rep from the Channel islands talk about enforcement of MLPAs talking about how existing resources DFG, Coast Guard, Park officers, could police the MLPAs.

After those two speakers were done: I left, but I now wish I had stayed. I have given it some thought and here's what I think their strategy was in staying late.

I had to guess I'd say the enviros abandoned the general comment section and left the room to give us a false sense of security. They then came back in after almost all the fisherman left, stayed till the end, and then chatted up the BRTF members directly off camera at the end of the process.

I should of seen it coming but it did not occur that that was their plan until after the fact.

It's actually a very brilliant move. No doubt one on one comments with the BRTF members will have a big impact at the end of the meeting especially after all the environmentalist friendly presentations, and I imagine the enviros also played the intimidation sympathy card and claimed they were somehow intimidated from commenting until after we had gone.

That's brilliant strategy, simply very clever sh!t on their part. I did not see it first hand but I bet money that is why they came back in at the end, so they could then work the BRTF one on one, off the record, after we were gone.

Jim

[zenspearo]

Originally Posted by Jim Day

Yep that was pretty cool.

Actually something kind of weird happened after the public comment period was over. That I think I shoud make everyone aware of.

I stayed after all the fisherman pretty much left. I went and got a coffee then came back and was surprised to find that all the enviros had come back into the room. I saw them earlier in the lobby talking about something. Didn't see them for over an hour but they came back in at the end in force.

If I had to guess I think they strategically left then came back in force for a reason.

I now wish had stayed even longer but after some reflection I have a feeling I now know what they were up to.

The speakers in the latter sections were talking about MLPA's in an enviro friendly way.

They had a MLPA expert that said MPAs are not really about fish management but habitat and "ecosystem" protection. Then they had a DFG rep from the Channel islands talk about enforcement of MLPAs talking about how existing resources DFG, Coast Guard, Park officers, could police the MLPAs.

After those two speakers were done: I left, but I now wish I had stayed. I have given it some thought and here's what I think their strategy was in staying late.

I had to guess I'd say the enviros abandoned the general comment section and left the room to give us a false sense of security. They then came back in after almost all the fisherman left, stayed till the end, and then chatted up the BRTF members directly off camera at the end of the process.

I should of seen it coming but it did not occur that that was their plan until after the fact.

It's actually a very brilliant move. No doubt one on one comments with the BRTF members will have a big impact at the end of the meeting especially after all the environmentalist friendly presentations, and I imagine the enviros also played the intimidation sympathy card and claimed they were somehow intimidated from commenting until after we had gone.

That's brilliant strategy, simply very clever sh!t on their part. I did not see it first hand but I bet money that is why they came back in at the end, so they could then work the BRTF one on one, off the record, after we were gone.

Jim

Thanks for the observation Jim.

Yes, this is another outreach that we should do. Personal interaction with the BRTF members or SAT members.

Let's try to do this at next meetings...

[Kiyo]

Originally Posted by Jim Day

Yep that was pretty cool.

Actually something kind of weird happened after the public comment period was over. That I think I shoud make everyone aware of.

I stayed after all the fisherman pretty much left. I went and got a coffee then came back and was surprised to find that all the enviros had come back into the room. I saw them earlier in the lobby talking about something. Didn't see them for over an hour but they came back in at the end in force.

If I had to guess I think they strategically left then came back in force for a reason.

The speakers in the latter sections were talking about MLPA's in an enviro friendly way.

They had a MLPA expert that said MPAs are not really about fish management but habitat and "ecosystem" protection. Then they had a DFG rep from the Channel islands talk about enforcement of MLPAs talking about how existing resources DFG, Coast Guard, Park officers, could police the MLPAs.

After those two speakers were done: I left, but I now wish I had stayed. I have given it some thought and here's what I think their strategy was in staying late.

I had to guess I'd say the enviros abandoned the general comment section and left the room to give us a false sense of security. They then came back in after almost all the fisherman left, stayed till the end, and then chatted up the BRTF members directly off camera at the end of the process.

I should of seen it coming but it did not occur that that was their plan until after the fact.

It's actually a very brilliant move. No doubt one on one comments with the BRTF members will have a big impact at the end of the meeting especially after all the environmentalist friendly presentations, and I imagine the enviros also played the intimidation sympathy card and claimed they were somehow intimidated from commenting until after we had gone.

That's brilliant strategy, simply very clever sh!t on their part. I did not see it first hand but I bet money that is why they came back in at the end, so they could then work the BRTF one on one, off the record, after we were gone.

Jim

Yes they did all come back all at once and sat all around me in the back by the door. This was right after Matt and Jims speech. Wish I could have stayed longer also.

[Sunburn]

With all of our public planning and discussions I wonder who is all reading this other then our group? It might be a good idea to move this to a private forum where only the known have access, then post general info in the more public areas. Or get an email list going of vetted people.


Just a thought.



Mark

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by Kiyo

Yes they did all come back all at once and sat all around me in the back by the door. This was right after Matt and Jims speech. Wish I could have stayed longer also.

I think I noticed at one time they had surrounded you

Good to see you Kiyo.

Jim

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by Sunburn

With all of our public planning and discussions I wonder who is all reading this other then our group? It might be a good idea to move this to a private forum where only the known have access, then post general info in the more public areas. Or get an email list going of vetted people. Just a thought. Mark

I don't know..... I'd say at this point it's more important to motivate our side then hide what we are doing. I mean staying later so we can talk to people afterwards is hardly Spy stuff

Jim

[Sunburn]

Originally Posted by Jim Day

I don't know..... is hardly Spy stuff
Jim

OK funny guy,


I'm sure they can guess what we would be preaching as easy as we can of them. Even so, I don't just hand over my play book...although I might try to slip them a fake one...



Mark