New kayak on the block...

[peguinpower]

Hurricane Phoenix 160 review





First impression, its beautiful. It is the most beautiful plastic SOT kayak I have ever seen, bar none. The lines are magnificent. Looking closer, the hardware is generic, taking away from the initial awe. Getting into the details, the rigging is lacking. I’ve been spoiled by Hobie. They do all the work, do it well, and all one need’s to do is add one or two things. The Phoenix 160, by any measure, is a bare fishing kayak. It doesn’t even have leash attachment points. Moving forward, the front hatch is reachable on the water. However, the rubber cap for the hatch requires some work to get back on. The experience is akin to putting a new bicycle tire onto its rim. A hard task initially, but the second tire will go on much easier. The space in the front hatch is cavernous by usual standards. That much space is NICE to have.

Not having a center hatch sucks. I’ve gotten used to having a center hatch to hold my tackle. This issue can be worked around by making a custom crate with a waterproof box to secure tackle for surf launches and landings. The rear bungee needs work too. They are permanently tied on and are not removable without cutting. I couldn’t slip my regular milk crate in there. I will need to device a quick release crate retention system for this issue too. The rear hatch is virtually useless on the water. It’s immediately behind the seat, doh, and the opening is only about 5 inches, if that. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a useful tackle box that would go in there. And if I ever dropped some stuff in there, like say a GPS, camera, FF control unit, lure keeper, it will likely move elsewhere hence irretrievable on the water and likely just as difficult on land. I’m whining a lot here, but I re-read the Hurricane catalog and its does say the Phoenix 160 “is the choice for fishermen…”. In fairness to the company, I knew exactly what I was going to get and I don’t feel short changed. A big plus is that the design provides a lot of flat spots to place rigging. You will not want for space to mount an FF, rod holder, etc. You just have to put some work on the thing.

Lets talk stability. The rounded hull allows the kayak to rock like a canoe. I'd say primary stability is pretty low. Secondary stability is good. In no way did I feel that it was going over unless I allowed it to. The tipping point on the Phoenix is predictable. My Hobie Revolution takes a lot to tip over. I can hang my entire upper body over the rail at 45 degrees, and it wont go. The Phoenix will tip over with a little effort, but not without warning.

Performance - Speed is the primary reason I bought this kayak sight unseen. There was no SOT available around me that had the reputation of being of any great speed nor any of much greater capability than what I already owned. So here it goes. To put things into perspective, we did a few tests. We had a kayak drag race between the Phoenix 160 and an Hobie Outback with ST fins. After 50 yards, I won by one and half boats lengths. Today, we fished for about 4 hours. My son, in a Hobie Revolution with ST fins, says that in he constantly had to try to keep up with me, and I did consciously wait for him. Relaxed paddling and pedaling, the Phoenix will put on a steady gain over the Hobie Revolution. I have to say, I expected a lot and am a bit disappointed on the outright speed of this kayak. Paddling with others, I did not feel like I had a turbo charger amongst the normally aspirated. Putting the paddle into the water, there is no sense of an immediate speed advantage (albeit she is a pleasure to paddle). But I know little of fast kayaks, and this may be it. A couple of young girls in their outrigger canoes did go by me like I was anchored It does slice into wind satisfactorily. I can’t say excellent, as my Revo will punch through a howler just as well. Tracking is excellent. It will turn quite easily with the proper technique plus some edging.

Overall, its not love at first sight for me and the Phoenix. I’m not proposing marriage on the first date, but I will ask her out again (after her makeover). I reserve judgement for later.


PART II

WHAT TO EXPECT IN A FAST FISHING KAYAK?

Heres some stuff I dug up AFTER I bought the Phoenix.

-High Performance hulls really shine when the kayaker is putting in an athletic amount of energy - typicaly over 5 pounds. Here the graph lines began to splay and some real differences were apparent. When that much drag was being paddled against via the paddler, the ferraris step ahead of the volkwagons. "FAST" kayak hulls it became clear, merelly ALLOW the paddler a higher speed.

-Shorter kayaks gave embaressingly good efficiency for 3.8lb. drag factor. Speeds like 4mph seemed to come at a discount with a 14' hull as compared to an 18'. Nothings free tho and what allows the paddler to so readily and easily to hit that speed also keeps you confined to it as this is the outer edge of the hull speed. Sprinting 6 mph wouldnt happen here


-For slow (lower energy) paddlers - a long boat may be wasted potential (or luxury reserve potential if you prefer) or possibly even slower. For a faster (higher energy) paddler - a shorter boat is a huge limitation.

-In fact some high speed hulls are not as efficient at slow speeds.

-in order to go fast you need to paddle hard. A "fast" kayak is not enough. It is possible to make an "ultra-efficient" kayak, but it would be extremely narrow. Many people would benefit from a shorter narrower boat which would be efficient at the speeds they paddle, but might not have the top-end sprint speed which they never use any way.


Regards, /bing

[lamb]

Cool review - thanks for taking the time!

You don't see a lot of Hurricane SOTs on the water. It looks pretty high above the water line - I'd hope it's pretty dry.

[Slay Rider]

Great review – I really, really enjoy reading first hand fishing kayak reviews who, lacking the aide of data collection equipment, are mostly observations and personal impressions. Anymore, to use the words fast and kayak in the same sentence are, to me, comical. This summer we were in the surf line south of La Jollalace, running and gunning from one reef to the next when I observed to my partner, who was fishing from a touring style kayak, that my kayak was soooo slow. After checking the trip log for average speed and noting we had been paddling together all morning without either paddler waiting on the other he observed that our speeds were the same. Because I had been fishing in a shorter, more stable hull that took more energy to paddle, I had assumed it was moving slower. My observation, supported by GPS is that most kayak fishermen paddle an average speed of 3-4 miles per hour no matter what they chose to fish from.

[peguinpower]

Originally Posted by Slay Rider

Great review – I really, really enjoy reading first hand fishing kayak reviews who, lacking the aide of data collection equipment, are mostly observations and personal impressions. Anymore, to use the words fast and kayak in the same sentence are, to me, comical. This summer we were in the surf line south of La Jollalace, running and gunning from one reef to the next when I observed to my partner, who was fishing from a touring style kayak, that my kayak was soooo slow. After checking the trip log for average speed and noting we had been paddling together all morning without either paddler waiting on the other he observed that our speeds were the same. Because I had been fishing in a shorter, more stable hull that took more energy to paddle, I had assumed it was moving slower. My observation, supported by GPS is that most kayak fishermen paddle an average speed of 3-4 miles per hour no matter what they chose to fish from.

In the first part of your response, I sense you dont like kayak reviews due to the absense of data collection instruments. It must be said, data collection is only one part of scientific observation. Equally important is methodology. I would venture to say that your average speed observation is just as subjective. Given current and wind drift, stopping time, moving time differences between two kayaks, variability of physical strength, a solid conclusion cannot be had. Furthermore, your average speed range has a gap of 30%. A significant difference to say the least.

I own a GPS too. I am not interested in conducting a controlled experiment to reach any sort of scientific benchmark. Frankly, Ive never carried my GPS in testing kayaks because unless I test all of them the same day, in the same waters, in the same weather conditions, then the wont be "scientific". I posted an honest review of my experience. That is all.

/bing

[Tman]

Good review...though I can't help but think each time I look at the pictures that one day we will see Kayak Police on the water, and they will be paddling that kayak, sirens, lights, and all.....Ponch, ya there?lol

[Handymansd]

Originally Posted by Tman

Good review...though I can't help but think each time I look at the pictures that one day we will see Kayak Police on the water, and they will be paddling that kayak, sirens, lights, and all.....Ponch, ya there?lol

DFG's future MLPA Enforcement Yak!!lol

[peguinpower]

Originally Posted by Handymansd

DFG's future MLPA Enforcement Yak!!lol

Just youse wait. I'm going after all yer poacher asses

[Slay Rider]

/bing said "I posted an honest review of my experience. That is all." Again, let me assure you your review was good and if for no other reason than because your pictures, expressed thoughts and conclusions caused three of us to pause long enough to think, feel and reply back with thoughts of our owe. In my opinion, an honest reply, pro or con, is the highest compliment you can be given on a public forum like this one.

"Absence of data collection instruments"
You are right there, it frustrates the hell out of me to read ten different reviews that come to ten different conclusions. If it was only as easy as putting a tape measure on it or putting it on a scale. But there are just so many variables. Probably the best bench mark test I’ve ever read of was to load various fishing yaks down with all their gear and paddlers - then tow them behind a motor boat - with a scale, noting how much drag each hull created as it was pulled through the water. If an industry standard could be agreed to and that measurement included along with the other specification normally listed it would give the buyer a better point of reference .

"your average speed range has a gap of 30%. A significant difference to say the least."
While I’m sure there are two reptile experts out there someplace in a heated debate over which is faster, the red eared turtle or the desert tortoise to me they are both little more than rocks with legs. Looking out over La Jolla from the bluff and watching kayakers move about as they fish is like watching cattle graze - never have I pointed one individual out said "Will you look how fast that one is moving."

[Handymansd]

On the serious note, Thanks for all your time to give us the lo-down on the new comer to the SOT arena!

Originally Posted by peguinpower

Just youse wait. I'm going after all yer poacher asses

First I'll have to actually catch something, then you'll have to catch my speedy FND!lol

[peguinpower]

Originally Posted by Handymansd

On the serious note, Thanks for all your time to give us the lo-down on the new comer to the SOT arena!




First I'll have to actually catch something, then you'll have to catch my speedy FND!lol

[Hook 1]

Nice report. Thanks After looking at Hurricanes web site the 160 is a touring kayak with a tankwell. This kayak is made for protected/calm water. Looks like a dry kayak. Alot of good spots to customize the kayak, That's What I'm Talking About. Saw that the cock pit and tankwell only have one scupper hole each. It will drain slow durring a surf launch but who cares as long as the hatch seals. I wonder how much it will flex in choppy water or from a wave.
As for speed, I think and this is how I test a fishing kayak 1) you need a GPS to check top end speed and glide and 2) weight (water bottles) to place around/on/in to simulate gear, bait tank, and battires.
http://www.hurricaneaquasports.com/phoenix160.html
Going to need to try this one. Just to know.

[peguinpower]

Originally Posted by Hook 1

Nice report. Thanks After looking at Hurricanes web site the 160 is a touring kayak with a tankwell. This kayak is made for protected/calm water. Looks like a dry kayak. Alot of good spots to customize the kayak, That's What I'm Talking About. Saw that the cock pit and tankwell only have one scupper hole each. It will drain slow durring a surf launch but who cares as long as the hatch seals. I wonder how much it will flex in choppy water or from a wave.
As for speed, I think and this is how I test a fishing kayak 1) you need a GPS to check top end speed and glide and 2) weight (water bottles) to place around/on/in to simulate gear, bait tank, and battires.
http://www.hurricaneaquasports.com/phoenix160.html
Going to need to try this one. Just to know.

Actually, "touring" and "made for protected waters" do not got togther. The catalog says "The Phoenix 160 performs exceptionally well in unfavorable conditions, allowing you to confidently wander further offshore."

But I aint defending this particular kayak. I own it, but I aint married to it. I took a chance. It turns out, I dont need a fast kayak, I need fast paddling muscles Even then, I like quite a few things about it. Most especially, its a saweet paddler and tracks like an arrow. The scuppers are not regular scuppers. It has an onboard venturi drain. They drain pretty fast. And, being that its not a scupper, they dont make scupper sounds or create scupper drag. Yes, its sits high on the water. That makes it dry. Is it unstable, NO. Very predictable. Like I said, rocks like a canoe, but doesnt go over unless you want it to.

Will give a long term report after a few months.

/bing

[Hook 1]

I'm not ripping it and it does look fast. As for "protected waters"... just my opinion. But it does look like your in a....harbor. I though an opening in a boat that lets water out of a deck area was called a scupper. I learned something new today. Looking forward to part 2.

[peguinpower]

Posted January 13, 2008 08:33 PM I went out with the Phoenix 160 today. Did 7.5 miles. I didnt like my 210 cm BB splice paddle. Too short. Tried my Hobie 230 cm paddle, a little better. Then settled on a 230cm Harmony touring paddle with long narrow blades. It made all the difference. Caught a calico bass and some cuda. Fishing was slow, but I was glad to be out for the paddle. This is only my second time out since early December 2007. Swells were huge today. I dont know if youve heard, over at Mavericks, the surf was peaking at 70 feet. At Venice beach, I saw a few good ones, easily 10 feet. I did a harbor launch With the new paddle, it was effortless to cruise at 3.2-3.6 mph (GPS used). Paddling at a good clip, I could cruise at 4.2 mph for 30 or so minutes. That took some effort, but it nice to know I can chug along at a good clip if I needed to. The hull hits a wall at a little over 5.1 mph (or maybe its me). The amount of energy to cruise at 5.6 mph is not something I can sustain for more that 5 minutes without pain. I am pleasantly surprised that I can cruise at the same speed as my Hobie Revolution with minimum effort. After a year of owning the Revo, my average speed has been 3.2 mph in varying conditions (open ocean, windy, choppy and harbors). After my basic mods, the Phoenix was a pleasure to fish in. All I need now is another eyelet inside the cockpit to attach my leash for the "rod in hand". I did have a "whoops" moment. I wasnt actually close to falling in, but after a drastic manuever to reach for something in my tank well, well suffice it to say I will be more careful in reaching over there from hereon. Rough water handling was superb. Despite relatively huge swells, waves did not wash over my bow. I did catch one wave which broke broad side. My seat got soaked But I was still pretty impressed at how the Phoenix handled in semi-rough water. A surprising trait of the hull is that it occasionally lands with a thud after a wave. The sound and sensation is similar to when a light PB lands back in the water. "pubh!" I found myself looking back to my trolling rod, just in case something hit it until I realized it was the kayak. In the end, Ive got to say, I like this plastic tub. Despite it lacking fishing accoutrements, I 'm glad I own it. Is it fast, YES IT IS. And what good is that you may ask? My intention is to be able to fish farther with a casual effort. Middle age, you start to question whether you can get back to the launch (sometimes) I sure I can confidently launch out of the hand launch in Redondo and fish the kelp beds 4 miles south and back with a casual effort. Maybe, I'll even make it to Cabrillo from Redondo someday. I guess I cant really figure a 1 mph speed advantage by feel alone. The GPS told the tale. Cruising at 3.2 mph with a healthy heart rate on the Hobie Revolution is effortless on the Phoenix. That very day, my friend in a Hobie Outback went back into the harbor a good 15 minutes before I did. When I did paddle in, I was looking at him and talking to him on the radio. For I minute, I really thought he was stopped as I was getting to him pretty fast. I blew past him and had to wait for him on the inside (which is when one of the outrigger canoe blew past me too ) I cant wait to take it for an even longer trip. /bing

[PAL]

Interesting. This P160 review adds more to the picture. It's a nice looking boat - why did you choose it over the T160?

[peguinpower]

Originally Posted by PAL

Interesting. This P160 review adds more to the picture. It's a nice looking boat - why did you choose it over the T160?

Because I cant carry a T160 and still enjoy my day The T160 is 70+ pounds with hatches. This is 55. For a couple hundred more, I save my back.

I can still do a 1 or two reps on the bench with 180 pounds. But with my built and the way you need to pick up and load kayaks, I have difficulty at around 60+ pounds.

/bing

[PAL]

That's a significant weight savings. It's still plastic, right? Have you noticed any downside to the lighter plastic? Flex or weak spots? Can you crawl all over the hull without oil-canning? Does stuff mount ok? And, can you mistreat it, drag and drop it like any other plastic fishing 'yak?

Thanks, very interested to hear the details. Where did you get the 'yak?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PAL

oil-canning?

OK, I realize that I turned in my hard-core card long ago, but Oil-canning? WTF is that?

I could guess but I may risk being banned.

[peguinpower]

The manufacturer, Hurricane Aquasports, calls the material Trylon. I did a bit of research before I bought this kayak, and its a two pieace hull bonded (more like fused) together with the adhesive methyl acrylate. That particular adhesive is used mostly on polycarbonate, hence its probably a fancy name for what is actually lexan. Same stuff Nascar car windows are made off. And motorcycle helmet visors, nalgene bottles and baby milk bottles. But his bad boy is made of the stuff (vacuum formed) thats almost 1/4 inch thick.

More info from the company -
How will your kayaks hold up compared to roto-molded?
As long as you stick to Class I and II waters (meaning flat-water NOT whitewater) your Hurricane will be as durable as roto-molded kayaks. Our Trylon is just as abrasion resistant. It won't fade out in sunlight. And best of all it won't "oil can" on your car rack and warp like polyethylene boats can.

Oil canning is the property of plastic kayaks to bend and flex thru its length. That is why you see polyeth` kayaks with all sorts of channels and tunnels on the bottom. These are designs to compensate for the flexing.

Besides the hull shape and design, the less oil canning supposedly makes it go faster. You can imagine that a polyethylene kayak looses a bit of its forward momentum when it resonates with the swells, as it punches thru a wave, surf and such. The Phoenix has a very looooong glide. My other kayaks sort of brake when you stop paddling.

Its a great kayak, as Ive found out. Its good attributes dont jump at you as soon as you sit on it, but due to the weak power plant (me) you get a feel for it after some time, and with the help of electronics (gps)

Its not for everyone. If oil platform stability is your main concern look elsewhere. It is rocky (low primary stability) but has solid secondary stability (warns you well before the point of no return). I knew this before hand, and accepted it in exchange for speed.

Its available from two dealers in socal. I wont say it here, with respect to the sites sponsors. You can find that info on the manufacturer's website if you really want to check one out. If you check out the 14 footer, its 50 pounds. The 12 footer is a bewildering 35 pounds.

regards, /bing