Your Public comment has helped!!!!!!! - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

Holy Mackerel · 05-22-2009, 03:34 PM

There are meetings in SD next month, details to come. EVERYONE is invited!!!!

Copied from Zenspearo:

Some good news--some mixed news--some remains to be worked. The trend is good, but there is much much work to be done as can be seen.

See here.

http://spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=84573

From Terry Maas and Eric Kett, our RSG reps.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Public testimony saves the day-MLPA Santa Ana

Still trying to recover from the last 3 marathon days, work today and finally diving on the weekend so Eric and I will have a complete report early next week.
Cutting to the chase, the testimony you folks gave as well as other impassioned fishermen really helped make our jobs easier when it came to horse trading. Almost every RSG member stayed to 1:00am to hear the last public speaker. Three to one, those favored more reasonable arrays. The conservative side highlighted rich wives from Pt. Dume who basically said they loved to kayak and fish, just not off their beach front property. The folks who made External C claimed to have modified their proposal to be more fisher friendly. You would not know that by all the red they presented.

At the end of 3 days, two of the break out groups compromised on proposed arrays looking a lot like External A, the FIN proposal (fisher friendly.) One group could not settle on a single array so it was placed into the pot for a “winnowing” vote by all members. The results will not be announced until Tuesday, but my bet is that it will be, again, more fisher friendly.

There are still some pretty ugly shapes in each proposal. You all will have a chance to review all proposals early next month. Again, your public speaking will be very important. Laguna is one of the toughest spots because of the size and spacing guidelines imposed by the SAT and because of the sewer outfall to the South, which prevents us from sliding the MPA south to help access issues. We regret this. The same goes for Coal Oil Point in Santa Barbara. Almost everyone included the campus and the points in their proposals—tradeoffs for other locations. Many proposals still close Pt. Dume and Paradise, but several do not. Deep Hole at County Line seems to be spared by most proposals.

At PV, most proposals save 90- to 100% of the North face. The ones that encroach here fan out from shore, which keeps more of the wsb hunting area in. La Jolla was the big winner, at least for now. Many arrays substituted an MPA just south of the Mission Bay opening for La Jolla, especially when connected with Del Mar.

There have some dynamics developing, which are very important for divers. By your efforts in communication and hard work, we now stand at the fihsermen’s table as an equal partner. We have become members of the FIN (Thanks Paul R.) and the PSO. In almost every array, exceptions are made for the high Level of Protection that spearing for coastal pelagics allows. Instead of the old rhetoric that spearfishing is a bad sport, we have been elevated as one of the most sustainable and selective of fishing groups. This is something we should all be very proud of.

Terry
__________________

Corey · 05-22-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holy Mackerel

La Jolla was the big winner, at least for now. Many arrays substituted an MPA just south of the Mission Bay opening for La Jolla, especially when connected with Del Mar.

__________________

That is great news to hear! We have got to keep the pressure on, however. Turnout at these upcoming meetings in San Diego needs to be HUGE! Anyone who fishes La Jolla better be there to let them know how much it means to you.

PAL · 05-22-2009, 05:45 PM

If anglers hadn't been turning out in force since Oxnard, more RSG reps would have voted for larger or more closures in key areas, putting us in a minority position at best.

I'm still trying to sort things out, but there's no question your efforts changed the outcome. One young man in particular came up time and again. Great work speaking up for yourself Clay!

Due to your public comment, most of the proposals that went forward are livable, but there will be at least one, quite likely two that would devastate our launch sites. This thing is far from over. And those who've been paying attention have seen how shifts in science guidelines and policy directives have fundamentally changed the rules, often at the last minute. We probably haven't seen the last of these sudden shifts, so the angling community must remain on guard.

kurt · 05-22-2009, 07:12 PM

That's good news. Long way to go, however. Lets blow out the walls of the room in SD and save our grounds. One question, Paul: what's happened with the military closures and how is it affecting fisherman in general?

landwhale · 05-22-2009, 07:37 PM

Took a pic of the early arrivals for the Tuesday night MLPA meeting in Santa Ana Thanks to all that came out

We still need more of you to show up at the workshops coming to your areas and the upcoming RSG meeting and everone to come to the BRTF meeting sometime in October there is still work to be done

zenspearo · 05-22-2009, 08:09 PM

There is no question that the gain we had in the last few days was due in no small part to the overwhelming kayak fishing turn out, particularly for places like La Jolla. You guys were simply impressive and the vibes, the applause, the sea of black shirts, it provides a glimpse of what we all can do together here.

I have some thoughts (okay, a beer helped, but I figure I'd jot it down before I forget).

In preparation for the roadshow workshops, all of us consumptives have to OWN the language used to discuss these issues and don't let the other side put labels on us. That has gone on for too long to our detriment.

First issue:

There are only two types of maps now. NOT fisherman maps and environmentalist maps. NO NO NO. By saying "fisherman map" and "environmentalist maps" we already alienated ourselves with the non-fishing public and elevated the fanatics to the "environmentalist" label.

NO NO NO

We are the conservationists, the ones who fund to preserve and promote habitat via our fishing license fees, dammit.

When we speak up for a map, there are balanced maps (one that balances fishing interests with MLPA goals) and there are extreme maps (one that shuts out all fishing holes and put out businesses). We urge the adoption of the balanced maps, and we reject the extreme maps. Agree?

Second Issue: The extremists will say that the economic pain due to closure is only short term. "Short term economic pain". This is how the latte-sipping crowd can diminish the pain felt by our community and the businesses they will shut down. As John Maynard Keynes would say "In the long run, we are all dead."

A strong point that we need to counter is there is no such thing as a short-term economic pain when you are the one getting wrecked. Look into the eyes of a young child whose father you are about to put out of business and go bankrupt and tell them it's only short-term. Look at a 60-year-old man with his whole life tied into his business, barely making payroll, and tell him "don't worry, it's only short-term pain."

There are other strategic issues that need to be synchronized among our communities to make sure that when we jointly fire up our cannons on June 29th, our rounds will hit the targets square on and hit hard and hit repeatedly.

June 29th and June 30th are La Jolla's do-or-die time. Let's work together.

PAL · 05-22-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

That's good news. Long way to go, however. Lets blow out the walls of the room in SD and save our grounds. One question, Paul: what's happened with the military closures and how is it affecting fisherman in general?

The military issue was finally laid to rest this week when the Blue Ribbon Task Force came to the decision to count the pending closure areas on the north end of San Clemente, although Wilson Cove is optional for stakeholder proposals. A San Nicolas closure is also optional. In addition, Begg Rock to the northwest of San Nic was defined as outside military jurisdiction. MPAs cannot be proposed for other parts of SCI.

Many in the preservationist community were deeply disappointed. The result is pressure to make up the difference at Catalina. We might also have picked up more kelp at SCI, at the cost of serious losses such as China Pt to Pyramid Cove, which was one of the proposals. It was a mixed bag Kurt, that hopefully won't spill over to the mainland coast.

Quote:

June 29th and June 30th are La Jolla's do-or-die time. Let's work together.

Hear, hear! I'll see ALL of you at the SD workshops.

Tman · 05-23-2009, 12:37 PM

Good news, thanks for all of your effort Paul and MJ, but as was stated, this is far from over. We now have a chance to control our future, so as to not say one day, "I wish I could've prevented this."

Funny how the general public is not aware of what is going on, and how it could ultimately affect them.

Easier for zealots to accomplish their mission in stealth mode than to huddle masses when they know they are outnumbered.

For future meetings, we need to show presence, as was accomplished at the Santa Ana meeting. The black shirts (whoever came up with that = genius) definitely had an impact. You could tell by how people looked at you, and knew which side you were on.

If you are not comfortable speaking in public, it does not matter. You need to throw that to the wind for what you believe in. If you don't care to speak, then at the very least, show that you care!

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAL

I'm still trying to sort things out, but there's no question your efforts changed the outcome. One young man in particular came up time and again. Great work speaking up for yourself Clay!

If a 9 year old (yes, dragging on his coattails) can speak up for what he believes in, why can't you at the very least SHOW UP!

Clay may not be the most articulative speaker (ok, he is, I digress) but come on, guys! If a 9 year old can get in front of all those people, not knowing the intricate details only that his future fishing grounds could potentially get threatened, and write his own speech, don't you think the very least you can do is make your presence felt?

They talk about how they want to preserve fishing for their grandchildren...who then will teach those grandchildren to fish?

These zealots would have had a much easier time restricting/imposing limits, but that is not how their mentality works, understand that. Read between the lines, and listen to what they are saying...it is not about what is best for us, but what is most appeasing to them. Look at their handout tri-fold brochure. Middle page shows an outline 3 miles encompassing the coast and the islands, yet the very next shows a surf fisherman...hmmmm...a 3 mile cast...

We will be at the SD meetings, and I think we need to create a SRO event...enlighten your friends, neighbors, anyone, make them aware, but most important, create an impact by showing up!

tylerdurden · 05-23-2009, 06:44 PM

Clay is a winner, are you?

Seriously people remember his speaking because nothing drives the point home better than a kid talking about how safe and accessible the LJ launch is.

Thanks again and again for the updates and hard work Paul. Anything else you need let us know.

Mr GreenJeans · 05-23-2009, 10:09 PM

Okay, the next meetings are in San Diego on the June 29th and 30th. I want to put it on my calendar so I can be there. Anybody know the time and location? I'll post it on the Dana Point board and see if I can get a few of those guys on the road.

David

05-22-2009, 03:34 PM	#1
Holy Mackerel Señor member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,627	Your Public comment has helped!!!!!!! There are meetings in SD next month, details to come. EVERYONE is invited!!!! Copied from Zenspearo: Some good news--some mixed news--some remains to be worked. The trend is good, but there is much much work to be done as can be seen. See here. http://spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=84573 From Terry Maas and Eric Kett, our RSG reps. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Public testimony saves the day-MLPA Santa Ana Still trying to recover from the last 3 marathon days, work today and finally diving on the weekend so Eric and I will have a complete report early next week. Cutting to the chase, the testimony you folks gave as well as other impassioned fishermen really helped make our jobs easier when it came to horse trading. Almost every RSG member stayed to 1:00am to hear the last public speaker. Three to one, those favored more reasonable arrays. The conservative side highlighted rich wives from Pt. Dume who basically said they loved to kayak and fish, just not off their beach front property. The folks who made External C claimed to have modified their proposal to be more fisher friendly. You would not know that by all the red they presented. At the end of 3 days, two of the break out groups compromised on proposed arrays looking a lot like External A, the FIN proposal (fisher friendly.) One group could not settle on a single array so it was placed into the pot for a “winnowing” vote by all members. The results will not be announced until Tuesday, but my bet is that it will be, again, more fisher friendly. There are still some pretty ugly shapes in each proposal. You all will have a chance to review all proposals early next month. Again, your public speaking will be very important. Laguna is one of the toughest spots because of the size and spacing guidelines imposed by the SAT and because of the sewer outfall to the South, which prevents us from sliding the MPA south to help access issues. We regret this. The same goes for Coal Oil Point in Santa Barbara. Almost everyone included the campus and the points in their proposals—tradeoffs for other locations. Many proposals still close Pt. Dume and Paradise, but several do not. Deep Hole at County Line seems to be spared by most proposals. At PV, most proposals save 90- to 100% of the North face. The ones that encroach here fan out from shore, which keeps more of the wsb hunting area in. La Jolla was the big winner, at least for now. Many arrays substituted an MPA just south of the Mission Bay opening for La Jolla, especially when connected with Del Mar. There have some dynamics developing, which are very important for divers. By your efforts in communication and hard work, we now stand at the fihsermen’s table as an equal partner. We have become members of the FIN (Thanks Paul R.) and the PSO. In almost every array, exceptions are made for the high Level of Protection that spearing for coastal pelagics allows. Instead of the old rhetoric that spearfishing is a bad sport, we have been elevated as one of the most sustainable and selective of fishing groups. This is something we should all be very proud of. Terry __________________

05-22-2009, 07:37 PM	#5
landwhale Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seal Beach Posts: 506	Took a pic of the early arrivals for the Tuesday night MLPA meeting in Santa Ana Thanks to all that came out We still need more of you to show up at the workshops coming to your areas and the upcoming RSG meeting and everone to come to the BRTF meeting sometime in October there is still work to be done __________________

05-23-2009, 06:44 PM	#9
tylerdurden Bad Clone Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 874	Clay is a winner, are you? Seriously people remember his speaking because nothing drives the point home better than a kid talking about how safe and accessible the LJ launch is. Thanks again and again for the updates and hard work Paul. Anything else you need let us know. __________________ MLPA, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem Let the Fish and Game Commission know what you think about the proposed maps. Be ready for December 9th and 10th.

05-23-2009, 10:09 PM	#10
Mr GreenJeans Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The OC Posts: 58	SD Meeting Okay, the next meetings are in San Diego on the June 29th and 30th. I want to put it on my calendar so I can be there. Anybody know the time and location? I'll post it on the Dana Point board and see if I can get a few of those guys on the road. David

05-22-2009, 05:45 PM	#3
PAL Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 754	If anglers hadn't been turning out in force since Oxnard, more RSG reps would have voted for larger or more closures in key areas, putting us in a minority position at best. I'm still trying to sort things out, but there's no question your efforts changed the outcome. One young man in particular came up time and again. Great work speaking up for yourself Clay! Due to your public comment, most of the proposals that went forward are livable, but there will be at least one, quite likely two that would devastate our launch sites. This thing is far from over. And those who've been paying attention have seen how shifts in science guidelines and policy directives have fundamentally changed the rules, often at the last minute. We probably haven't seen the last of these sudden shifts, so the angling community must remain on guard.

05-22-2009, 07:12 PM	#4
kurt Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: 2 inches above sea level Posts: 503	That's good news. Long way to go, however. Lets blow out the walls of the room in SD and save our grounds. One question, Paul: what's happened with the military closures and how is it affecting fisherman in general?

05-22-2009, 08:09 PM	#6
zenspearo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 167	There is no question that the gain we had in the last few days was due in no small part to the overwhelming kayak fishing turn out, particularly for places like La Jolla. You guys were simply impressive and the vibes, the applause, the sea of black shirts, it provides a glimpse of what we all can do together here. I have some thoughts (okay, a beer helped, but I figure I'd jot it down before I forget). In preparation for the roadshow workshops, all of us consumptives have to OWN the language used to discuss these issues and don't let the other side put labels on us. That has gone on for too long to our detriment. First issue: There are only two types of maps now. NOT fisherman maps and environmentalist maps. NO NO NO. By saying "fisherman map" and "environmentalist maps" we already alienated ourselves with the non-fishing public and elevated the fanatics to the "environmentalist" label. NO NO NO We are the conservationists, the ones who fund to preserve and promote habitat via our fishing license fees, dammit. When we speak up for a map, there are balanced maps (one that balances fishing interests with MLPA goals) and there are extreme maps (one that shuts out all fishing holes and put out businesses). We urge the adoption of the balanced maps, and we reject the extreme maps. Agree? Second Issue: The extremists will say that the economic pain due to closure is only short term. "Short term economic pain". This is how the latte-sipping crowd can diminish the pain felt by our community and the businesses they will shut down. As John Maynard Keynes would say "In the long run, we are all dead." A strong point that we need to counter is there is no such thing as a short-term economic pain when you are the one getting wrecked. Look into the eyes of a young child whose father you are about to put out of business and go bankrupt and tell them it's only short-term. Look at a 60-year-old man with his whole life tied into his business, barely making payroll, and tell him "don't worry, it's only short-term pain." There are other strategic issues that need to be synchronized among our communities to make sure that when we jointly fire up our cannons on June 29th, our rounds will hit the targets square on and hit hard and hit repeatedly. June 29th and June 30th are La Jolla's do-or-die time. Let's work together.