Avet Reels and Dry vs Greased Drag Washers - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

BigAppa · 04-08-2016, 10:49 PM

Bought an MXJ last month based on all the recommendations on this site. I've only had a chance to pull on some rockfish with it, but out of all my reels (a couple of penn fathoms, a couple of Daiwa Saltists, Torium 16, and an Abu Garcia C4) this one beats them all. The others are great reels too, but there's just something different about an Avet. Really impressed with it so far. I plan on getting a couple more in the very near future.

But I was doing some research on the basic maintenance of Avets today, and I stumbled upon thread after thread at various sites discussing whether or not to grease the drag washers of Avets. I had never seen such a heated discussion about reel maintenance before.

It seems pretty split down the middle. Even Avet chimed in with a drag test and reaffirmed that the drag should not be greased bc dry washers will lead to more consistent drag pressure. But there are many others who say that grease will lead to a smoother drag and better protection, and that Avet's test didn't replicate real life situations. I believe that the manufacturers of my other reels all recommend grease for the washers (could be wrong about this though. I've been doing it anyway without any problems). Plus, one of the criticisms I read about Avets is that the drag can be jerky when dry, which is another reason to grease them.

So I was just wondering, what have been your experiences with dry vs greased Avet drag washers?

skrilla · 04-08-2016, 10:56 PM

I've worked on plenty Avets. Grease em. Rust and corrosion aint fun.

FullFlavorPike · 04-09-2016, 07:49 AM

I put a carbon drag washer in a TLD15, impregnated it with grease, and the thing is slicker than shit. Seemed grabby when it was dry.

2-Stix · 04-09-2016, 02:15 PM

I tend to follow manufactures specs...and with experience gravitate away where I feels its best. I race offroad and never premixed a 2 stroke bike per manuf. but I follow all the torque specs for motor rebuilds. Its a bit case by case. I have 2 Avets. The website calls for dry drags. I will keep it that way unless I see issues and I will try to get a better result if need be...via grease or what not.

BigAppa · 04-09-2016, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skrilla

I've worked on plenty Avets. Grease em. Rust and corrosion aint fun.

Yeah, I'm really tempted to. It's just been automatic with me with my other reels. And it just seems to make more sense: greased washers will be smoother. And I'm willing to give up a little drag pressure for smoothness (although I have no science to back this up. Maybe these newer materials provide enough smoothness dry). Another thing to consider - I read on another site that greasing the washers will void the warranty of the entire reel. Not too sure about this. I'll have to verify with Avet. Damn, never new this topic would be so complicated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2-Stix

I tend to follow manufactures specs...and with experience gravitate away where I feels its best. I race offroad and never premixed a 2 stroke bike per manuf. but I follow all the torque specs for motor rebuilds. Its a bit case by case. I have 2 Avets. The website calls for dry drags. I will keep it that way unless I see issues and I will try to get a better result if need be...via grease or what not.

Thanks for the response. How would you compare the smoothness of the dry washers of the Avets to the greased washers of other reels? I know it's not a perfect comparison, but just curious.

2-Stix · 04-09-2016, 04:55 PM

Thanks for the response. How would you compare the smoothness of the dry washers of the Avets to the greased washers of other reels? I know it's not a perfect comparison, but just curious.[/QUOTE]

Your buying a dry drag machine. Its a different animal. Gas vrs diesel motor if you will. They work different. The quote is from the Avet site. I dont feel I know how to manage their designs and reals better than their engineers.

Should I grease or lube my drag?
No. Avet Reels feature a woven carbon fiber dry drag system. Because the carbon disc is woven, the tops of the weaves are what make surface contact with the mating stainless steel disc. This is the surface area and dry friction coefficient that all of the other components in the drag system are designed and calibrated around. This includes the cam ramp angles and Belleville pressure washers (drag pressure springs), that as a whole determine the drag curve for the line class range the reel is designed for. Greasing the drag fills in the voids between the weaves, multiplying the actual surface area contact between the carbon and steel discs, and throwing off the drag curve. This condition makes the drag lever extremely sensitive to adjustment, substantially increasing or decreasing drag pressure with only a fraction of the travel of the lever, especially when the reel is used in the lighter line class range a particular model is designed to accommodate.

YOYOYaker · 04-09-2016, 03:26 PM

I used to use "super smoothies" dry, per mfr., and they worked great for one season. It seems like the fiber washers would stick to the metal washers during storage, even with the drags backed off during storage. Moisture was the culprit as we saltwater anglers always rinse our gear after use. I now use carbon-tex washers, with a light coating of Cal's reel and drag grease, and all is good. The Mfr. of the carbon-tex washers says dry or lightly greased. I tried them dry 1st, and they felt like sandpaper. They work great after greasing them up with Cal's. I will no longer use any drag washers that recommend dry installation. I also noticed a lot of metal drag washers being sold in the aftermarket that are not ground and lapped to be perfectly flat and parallel. Do NOT use those because effective surface area can be reduced significantly, affecting smoothness, and their overall braking performance. Don't try to sand or lap the cheapos either. By the time you get them flat, they will be too thin anyways.

I just edited this to reflect the fact that this has been my experience with my Diawa, Abu, Accurate, and Newell reels. I do not own an Avet yet, unfortunately. Best results usually obtained following the advice of the Manufacturer of the Drag washers, not necessarily the reel if the washers are not OEM.

-Mike

BigAppa · 04-11-2016, 09:33 AM

I talked to Avet a minute ago. I asked them if putting grease on the washers would void the warranty. I got an emphatic, "yes." All the parts have been calibrated to work with dry washers, so they can't guarantee anything if something slips and breaks. Just a heads up to those considering greasing the washers of a reel still under warranty.

I guess that settles it for me, but the first time I lose a fish because of a sticky drag, I'll be slathering grease on there regardless. And if I notice a difference, I'll post it here for those interested. But considering the rate I catch anything that can take out drag, that may be a while.

04-08-2016, 10:49 PM	#1
BigAppa Junior Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 27	Avet Reels and Dry vs Greased Drag Washers Bought an MXJ last month based on all the recommendations on this site. I've only had a chance to pull on some rockfish with it, but out of all my reels (a couple of penn fathoms, a couple of Daiwa Saltists, Torium 16, and an Abu Garcia C4) this one beats them all. The others are great reels too, but there's just something different about an Avet. Really impressed with it so far. I plan on getting a couple more in the very near future. But I was doing some research on the basic maintenance of Avets today, and I stumbled upon thread after thread at various sites discussing whether or not to grease the drag washers of Avets. I had never seen such a heated discussion about reel maintenance before. It seems pretty split down the middle. Even Avet chimed in with a drag test and reaffirmed that the drag should not be greased bc dry washers will lead to more consistent drag pressure. But there are many others who say that grease will lead to a smoother drag and better protection, and that Avet's test didn't replicate real life situations. I believe that the manufacturers of my other reels all recommend grease for the washers (could be wrong about this though. I've been doing it anyway without any problems). Plus, one of the criticisms I read about Avets is that the drag can be jerky when dry, which is another reason to grease them. So I was just wondering, what have been your experiences with dry vs greased Avet drag washers?

04-08-2016, 10:56 PM	#2
skrilla Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: San Diego Posts: 664	I've worked on plenty Avets. Grease em. Rust and corrosion aint fun. __________________ Urban Camo Trident 13

04-09-2016, 03:26 PM	#7
YOYOYaker Junior Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: San Marcos, CA Posts: 28	I used to use "super smoothies" dry, per mfr., and they worked great for one season. It seems like the fiber washers would stick to the metal washers during storage, even with the drags backed off during storage. Moisture was the culprit as we saltwater anglers always rinse our gear after use. I now use carbon-tex washers, with a light coating of Cal's reel and drag grease, and all is good. The Mfr. of the carbon-tex washers says dry or lightly greased. I tried them dry 1st, and they felt like sandpaper. They work great after greasing them up with Cal's. I will no longer use any drag washers that recommend dry installation. I also noticed a lot of metal drag washers being sold in the aftermarket that are not ground and lapped to be perfectly flat and parallel. Do NOT use those because effective surface area can be reduced significantly, affecting smoothness, and their overall braking performance. Don't try to sand or lap the cheapos either. By the time you get them flat, they will be too thin anyways. I just edited this to reflect the fact that this has been my experience with my Diawa, Abu, Accurate, and Newell reels. I do not own an Avet yet, unfortunately. Best results usually obtained following the advice of the Manufacturer of the Drag washers, not necessarily the reel if the washers are not OEM. -Mike Last edited by YOYOYaker; 04-09-2016 at 07:18 PM. Reason: Clarification

04-09-2016, 07:49 AM	#3
FullFlavorPike Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 809	I put a carbon drag washer in a TLD15, impregnated it with grease, and the thing is slicker than shit. Seemed grabby when it was dry.

04-09-2016, 02:15 PM	#4
2-Stix Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Ventura, CA Posts: 376	I tend to follow manufactures specs...and with experience gravitate away where I feels its best. I race offroad and never premixed a 2 stroke bike per manuf. but I follow all the torque specs for motor rebuilds. Its a bit case by case. I have 2 Avets. The website calls for dry drags. I will keep it that way unless I see issues and I will try to get a better result if need be...via grease or what not.

04-09-2016, 04:55 PM	#6
2-Stix Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Ventura, CA Posts: 376	Thanks for the response. How would you compare the smoothness of the dry washers of the Avets to the greased washers of other reels? I know it's not a perfect comparison, but just curious.[/QUOTE] Your buying a dry drag machine. Its a different animal. Gas vrs diesel motor if you will. They work different. The quote is from the Avet site. I dont feel I know how to manage their designs and reals better than their engineers. Should I grease or lube my drag? No. Avet Reels feature a woven carbon fiber dry drag system. Because the carbon disc is woven, the tops of the weaves are what make surface contact with the mating stainless steel disc. This is the surface area and dry friction coefficient that all of the other components in the drag system are designed and calibrated around. This includes the cam ramp angles and Belleville pressure washers (drag pressure springs), that as a whole determine the drag curve for the line class range the reel is designed for. Greasing the drag fills in the voids between the weaves, multiplying the actual surface area contact between the carbon and steel discs, and throwing off the drag curve. This condition makes the drag lever extremely sensitive to adjustment, substantially increasing or decreasing drag pressure with only a fraction of the travel of the lever, especially when the reel is used in the lighter line class range a particular model is designed to accommodate.

04-11-2016, 09:33 AM	#8
BigAppa Junior Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 27	I talked to Avet a minute ago. I asked them if putting grease on the washers would void the warranty. I got an emphatic, "yes." All the parts have been calibrated to work with dry washers, so they can't guarantee anything if something slips and breaks. Just a heads up to those considering greasing the washers of a reel still under warranty. I guess that settles it for me, but the first time I lose a fish because of a sticky drag, I'll be slathering grease on there regardless. And if I notice a difference, I'll post it here for those interested. But considering the rate I catch anything that can take out drag, that may be a while.