2 rods on cattle boat

[alanw]

Ok so yesterday on a cattle boat out of Dana Point I had a live bait in the water and decided to toss a waxwing into the kelp. I was told by a crew member that confirmed with the captain that it's illegal to use two poles at the same time in California without some "special" license, or while trolling. I was not about to argue with the captain or crew and quickly complied, but I know this was talked about before. The 2nd rod rule (and 2nd rod stamp) is for inland waters only and you can theoretically use 1000 poles in the ocean if you wanted with some exceptions such as while rock fishing. I'm fine if the boat has a one rod rule but to say it's illegal in CA seems misinformed, unless there's some rules I don't know about that apply while on a charter/sport-fishing boat?

[bus kid]

Its a safety issue for them. not a legal issue. There needs to be someone in control of the rod at all times. if you have one on in the water and one in your hand and the one in the water gets bite things can go wrong.

[Raskal311]

I had the same argument with a drunk in the cattle boat I was on yesterday.

[bus kid]

Originally Posted by Raskal311

I had the same argument with a drunk in the cattle boat I was on yesterday.

Are you a Deck hand or Capt out of Dana Point?

[alanw]

Originally Posted by bus kid

Are you a Deck hand or Capt out of Dana Point?

Hey I wasn't drunk! Beer is way too expensive on the boats to get drunk


I can totally agree with safety issues and boat rules, but for a professional charter boat captain to not know the F&G rules and wrongly claim something is illegal in CA is what I think is unacceptable. His bad information gets passed on to hundreds if not thousands of other people that might not know any better.

Otherwise he did a great job of getting us on the fish all day and I wouldn't have a problem with going on his boat anytime.

[FlyFishinYakr]

Originally Posted by alanw

Hey I wasn't drunk! Beer is way too expensive on the boats to get drunk


I can totally agree with safety issues and boat rules, but for a professional charter boat captain to not know the F&G rules and wrongly claim something is illegal in CA is what I think is unacceptable. His bad information gets passed on to hundreds if not thousands of other people that might not know any better.

Otherwise he did a great job of getting us on the fish all day and I wouldn't have a problem with going on his boat anytime.

Alan,
With all due respect, I enjoy your posts.
However I feel I have to "chime in" on your criticism of the Captain on this one.
Do you have any idea of all the regulations that is required to know to pass the CC skipper's license? Then also be aware of all the various fishing regulations and yearly changes to these regs?
Our regulations have become so complicated and vast along with vague.
This sounds like an argument I have with many people when I observe and submit my report on an accident/collision.
I am a Federal D.O.T. Instructor, special investigator (motor vehicle and marine) and CA D.M.V. Examiner, people tend to define laws as it pertains to their point of view/opinion!
This Skipper could have been erring on the side of caution to protect you from a ticket (just an observation and opinion NOT Fact).
Again no disrespect or insult intended just something to think about.
Tight lines and full limits,
FFY

Skrilla also make a good point!
Alan, I know your knowledgable about fishing from reading your posts. I don't know if you were on a local or offshore boat (that info would've been helpful) You know that when on the troll (you mentioned) it's imperative to get the lead fish to the boat which brings the school to the boat.. If you're using a second rod and your trolling rig gets bit what are you going to do?
Aside from liability issues from injury to another passenger due to an "unattended rod" or your unattended line causing a clusterf__k the skippers and deckhands are concerned about getting that fish count to get people on the boat and you're sabotaging the possibility of turning a great day to a fair one (remember the "golden rule" no angles no tangles!
Remember these guys only have 3-4 months in order to make $ unless they also operate Long Range. Over the last few years many operations have gone away due to the economy and the lack of really good fishing!
Does ANYONE remember 20+ years ago when there would be 40+ Boats on the water during the summer and every "limited load" and open party boat was full?

[Raskal311]

Originally Posted by bus kid

Are you a Deck hand or Capt out of Dana Point?

No this was out of daveys

[food4less562]

[Hunters Pa]

Could have had a rockfish aboard, in which case it would have been illegal based on the regs quoted in this thread. But some crews can be over the top

[Dirty Curti]

Originally Posted by alanw

Ok so yesterday on a cattle boat out of Dana Point I had a live bait in the water and decided to toss a waxwing into the kelp. I was told by a crew member that confirmed with the captain that it's illegal to use two poles at the same time in California without some "special" license, or while trolling. I was not about to argue with the captain or crew and quickly complied, but I know this was talked about before. The 2nd rod rule (and 2nd rod stamp) is for inland waters only and you can theoretically use 1000 poles in the ocean if you wanted with some exceptions such as while rock fishing. I'm fine if the boat has a one rod rule but to say it's illegal in CA seems misinformed, unless there's some rules I don't know about that apply while on a charter/sport-fishing boat?

Second Rod Validation $14.30 Required for all persons taking fish with two rods or lines in inland waters, except for waters in which only artificial lures or barbless hooks may be used.

I hate legal mumbo jumbo but does this mean that if you are using artificial lures than you can only use 1 pole unless you are licensed for a second???

It has the word "ONLY" which screws me up when I'm reading this because we don't only use lures and barbless hooks. We are using live bait, cut bait, artificial lures and barbed hooks.

I'm confused. Should we be purchasing a second rod validation when we are fishing in the ocean?

[bolocop]

NO!!!!

From the CA DFG FAQ's:

Q. How many fishing rods and hooks can I use when sport fishing in the ocean?

A. Any number of hooks and fishing lines may be used in all ocean waters and bays with the following exceptions:

You can only use one line with no more than three hooks while fishing in San Francisco and San Pablo bays between the Golden Gate Bridge and the west Carquinez Bridge.
When you are fishing from a public pier you can use only two rods and lines, two hand lines, or two crab nets, crab traps or other appliances used to take crabs.
When you are fishing for rockfish or lingcod or you have rockfish or lingcod aboard your boat, you can only use one line with no more than two hooks.
If you are fishing north of Point Conception for salmon or have salmon on board your boat, you can only use one rod and line with no more than two single barbless hooks (check current salmon regulations for other hook restrictions).

Ref. Section 28.65.

On a cattle boat, the Captain is KING! They have so many rights and powers over you, it's amazing. Do what they say!

[bubblehide]

Originally Posted by bolocop

NO!!!!

From the CA DFG FAQ's:

Q. How many fishing rods and hooks can I use when sport fishing in the ocean?

A. Any number of hooks and fishing lines may be used in all ocean waters and bays with the following exceptions:

You can only use one line with no more than three hooks while fishing in San Francisco and San Pablo bays between the Golden Gate Bridge and the west Carquinez Bridge.
When you are fishing from a public pier you can use only two rods and lines, two hand lines, or two crab nets, crab traps or other appliances used to take crabs.
When you are fishing for rockfish or lingcod or you have rockfish or lingcod aboard your boat, you can only use one line with no more than two hooks.
If you are fishing north of Point Conception for salmon or have salmon on board your boat, you can only use one rod and line with no more than two single barbless hooks (check current salmon regulations for other hook restrictions).

Ref. Section 28.65.

On a cattle boat, the Captain is KING! They have so many rights and powers over you, it's amazing. Do what they say!

^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Silbaugh4liberty]

Originally Posted by bolocop

NO!!!!

From the CA DFG FAQ's:

Q. How many fishing rods and hooks can I use when sport fishing in the ocean?

A. Any number of hooks and fishing lines may be used in all ocean waters and bays with the following exceptions:

You can only use one line with no more than three hooks while fishing in San Francisco and San Pablo bays between the Golden Gate Bridge and the west Carquinez Bridge.
When you are fishing from a public pier you can use only two rods and lines, two hand lines, or two crab nets, crab traps or other appliances used to take crabs.
When you are fishing for rockfish or lingcod or you have rockfish or lingcod aboard your boat, you can only use one line with no more than two hooks.
If you are fishing north of Point Conception for salmon or have salmon on board your boat, you can only use one rod and line with no more than two single barbless hooks (check current salmon regulations for other hook restrictions).

Ref. Section 28.65.

On a cattle boat, the Captain is KING! They have so many rights and powers over you, it's amazing. Do what they say!

Thanks for clearing this up bro. I was about to go through the rules myself. I want to know it's OK to troll a mack or chovies while I throw around some swim baits and not have to worry about getting a ticket!
I dont fish freshwater here in California, so not worried about the stamp. seems pointless to me. Too many f ing rules, mostly stocked farm fish, just doesn't seem real. Besides, I don't see any walleye or pike around.

[alanw]

Originally Posted by Dirty Curti

Second Rod Validation $14.30 Required for all persons taking fish with two rods or lines in inland waters, except for waters in which only artificial lures or barbless hooks may be used.

I hate legal mumbo jumbo but does this mean that if you are using artificial lures than you can only use 1 pole unless you are licensed for a second???

It has the word "ONLY" which screws me up when I'm reading this because we don't only use lures and barbless hooks. We are using live bait, cut bait, artificial lures and barbed hooks.

I'm confused. Should we be purchasing a second rod validation when we are fishing in the ocean?

I'm no expert, but I read it like this:

Bays & ocean = no rod limit except for special exceptions (like rockfish).
Inland = 1 rod max, or 2 rods max if you have the 2nd rod stamp.
Waters where the rules are "artificial lures only" or "barbless hooks only" = 2 rods (maybe more?), no 2nd rod stamp necessary

On top of the rod rules, there are also "number of hooks" rules to be aware of.

[skrilla]

I wouldn't take it too literal. Dude was just enforcing safety aboard his boat. How would he know your level of angler skill for all he knows you could be another one of those guys who don't have a clue and end up injuring yourself or others on board. 2 lines in the water with one unattended is just asking for it anyway on a sportboat. What if a biggun is hooked and runs a fisherman and a deckhand up the rail forcing them around and thru your obstacles? Lawsuits are a bitch and have ended great fishing operations and put awesome crews out of work.

[jruiz]

Some deckhands and captains can be Nazis. I remember having a deckhand tell me that i couldn't use anything but a dropper loop.

I don't mean any disrespect to Nazis.

[lowprofile]

Originally Posted by alanw

I'm no expert, but I read it like this:

Bays & ocean = no rod limit except for special exceptions (like rockfish).
Inland = 1 rod max, or 2 rods max if you have the 2nd rod stamp.
Waters where the rules are "artificial lures only" or "barbless hooks only" = 2 rods (maybe more?), no 2nd rod stamp necessary

On top of the rod rules, there are also "number of hooks" rules to be aware of.

Lagoons fall under inland waters. Just an FYI. Found that out a few months back.

[bus kid]

Originally Posted by lowprofile

Lagoons fall under inland waters. Just an FYI. Found that out a few months back.

Wong coast, were talking about Ca.

[bwana]

I started fishing cattle boats when I came to CA in 1977. So I have a little experience locally on everything from 1/2 to multi-day tuna runs...

Cattle boat rules are very simple - you can only fish 1 rod at a time. Period. No unattended rods at the rail. It is a plain and simple safety issue.

Respect the rules, they are made for a reason.

When fishing on your kayak or on a private boat then DFG regs apply.

[YakDout]

I've always known it as 2nd rod endorsement only needed for freshwater, so I usually opt out. I'm guessing that's where the words inland waters play role.


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