DFW Lobster FMP meeting Aug 15th

[Saba Slayer]

This is an update and an outreach to inform as many of the approximately 37,000 lobster report card holders about some proposed changes to the lobster regulations. (This is my individual viewpoint and does not reflect the opinion of the other LAC chairs)
Representing the recreational interests, Al Stasukevich (hooper), Michael Gould (diver), and myself (hooper), along with alternate Paul Romanowski (diver), have been meeting with the DFW, Commercial Lobstermen and the other chairs from the Lobster Advisory Committee since June 20, 2012.
As a conservation measure, DFW has asked the recreational and commercial chairs to find ways to reduce our effort.
The commercial guys are working on setting up trap limits with the DFW. The recreational side, along with the DFW, has proposed establishing a seasonal limit. The DFW maintains that a seasonal limit will reduce commercialization of the recreational fishery and share opportunities with other recreational fishermen. 70 is the number being discussed although there are some, (Al and I), that think the number should be higher and yet others that think it should be lower.
For a little background, based on the report card returns from 2008 through 2012 of 29,731 cards, 1.7% reported an annual catch of 71+ lobsters and 0.7% reported 98+ lobsters. Based on this information, with approximately 37,000 report cards sold last year, about 630 people could be affected by this seasonal limit if it’s set at 70.
Now is your time to speak up if this information is important to you. Our next meeting is on August 15th at 8:00AM at the DFW office in Los Alamitos at, 4665 Lampson Ave. 90720. The public is welcome and you will have time to speak. There have been quite a few commercial fishermen in attendance the last two meetings.
A few other lesser issues are also being discussed. Among them is the possible adjustment of the recreational opener to a 6:00PM time rather than midnight, to address safety concerns, reduce confusion and aid DFW enforcement.
Mechanized (power driven) pullers will probably be allowed only to people in possession of proof of disability. Hand operated davits or single pulley systems will be allowed.
There is a possible change to allow spear fishermen to carry pole spears and spear guns while in pursuit of lobsters.
If the commission approves these or any other changes after they are presented to them, it may not be until the 2016-17 season that these new regulations would go into effect.
If you can't make the meeting and you have some input please email me at jsalazarhoop@gmail.com
Thanks
Jim / Saba Slayer

[Saba Slayer]

When you don't get involved you get the government you deserve!!!
Jim / Saba Slayer

[MrM]

Hi Jim!

How long are these meetings? 0800 on a Thursday, I'll need to ask my boss for some time out of the office. I'd like to be there.

Also, a while back you made mention of the DFW changing the license date range for lobsters. Has there been any progress on that?

[Saba Slayer]

MrM, thanks for the interest.
The Lobster Fishery Management Plan (FMP) meetings start at 8am and last till about 3pm. If you can't make it or you have to take time off of work and lose money...please email me your input and I'll express your thoughts or read your email at the meeting.
The seasonal lobster report card did go through the DFW commission and starts this 2013-2014 season...if you bought a report card in January and you want to continue hooping or diving for the last part of the season in 2014 you will need to buy a new seasonal card in January of 2014.
PLEASE SEND IN YOUR REPORT CARDS!!!
Jim / Saba Slayer

[MrM]

Roger that! Let me try and work some magic. Worst case scenario, I'll type something up.

Thanks for your hard work Jim.

[yakfishin]

Okay so I'm a newb here and a newb to lobster fishing. So a couple of questions.

1. When I go to the DFW website to buy my license there isn't a option for lobsters. Did I miss a window of opportunity? Or do I have to go to a physical location to buy one?
2. Is there a lobster report that comes out and predicts good locations for fishing them? Or this a learn as you go fishery?

Thanks for any knowledge you can pass on. I'd love to go the meeting and voice concerns or gather knowledge. However I think the government plans these things in the middle of the week for a reason

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by Saba Slayer

The DFW maintains that a seasonal limit will reduce commercialization of the recreational fishery and share opportunities with other recreational fishermen.

Well that's BS. There is no such thing as "commercialization of the recreational fishery"

There is recreational fishing and poaching and they are not the same thing.

Recreational fisherman fill out there cards and keep to the regulations like the daily catch limits. Poachers who illegally sell lobsters do whatever they want because they are outside the law, and they will keep on doing whatever the want even if law abiding recreational fisherman are given a seasonal limit.

I would argue that having no seasonal limit is actually better because a poacher is far more likely to fill out their card if there is not some set season limit, and if someone is caught selling lobster the card becomes evidence that could be used against them.

Originally Posted by Saba Slayer

Mechanized (power driven) pullers will probably be allowed only to people in possession of proof of disability. Hand operated davits or single pulley systems will be allowed.

More BS: Few recreational fisherman use pullers and their impact on the fishery is nil. The limit of lobsters is 7 per day. I fish my skiff with a puller and my kayak with a boom and pulley. In both cases I take the same maximum of 7 lobsters a day. They only difference is that with a puller I can hoop deeper water where most do not hoop.

Didn't they just say something about: "opportunities for other recreational fishermen"? Well allowing guys like you and I to use pullers let's us hoop areas that are not hard hit by the majority of hoopers or divers and also frees up shallow inshore areas like breakwalls allowing greater opportunity for less experienced fisherman.

I think both these "proposals" have been put forward by the commercials and they are doing for a simple reason. If their catch is limited they want to limit ours as well.

A seasonal limit would limit the recreational catch of the best recreational lobster fisherman, and the puller rule will limit the areas recreational fisherman can hoop forcing us to all fish the same shallow inshore waters.

There's nothing new in this game. Commercials have always fought seasonal catch quotas (limits) and tried to get seasonal limits placed on recreational fishing. That's because the want the largest slice of the pie possible.

That said this just isn't the way it's done.

Commercials have quotas, we have daily bag limits.

For instance there is a set seasonal quota for Pacific Bluefin Tuna. We as recreational fisherman are not included in that quota, we do not have a seasonal catch limit, and we do not have to fill out the catch data that the commercials have to fill out for the year. We can keep our limit of tuna each day if we can catch them. While the commercials fill their quota every year we rarely even get our daily limit. I know I've never limited out on Bluefin, and I do not know many that have.

Now with the report card system they can stick us with a commercial style seasonal lobster quota. It's BS because we already have a functioning daily catch limit in place.

So who's really creating a "commercialization of the recreational fishery" if they are the ones who want to regulate us like the commercials.

This is why I was against the whole report card system to begin with. It was sold to us as simply a information gathering tool, now it becomes a way to limit our catch, a quota system.

I have a counter proposal. If we are now going to have a seasonal quota or catch limit for lobsters, then do away with the daily bag limit. They want to regulate us like Commercials then let us play on the same field. We should be able to take as many lobsters as we catch per day until our quota of 70 lobsters is filled. That's what the commercials are going to do. They will take every legal lobster they catch until their quota is filled.

I've had nights where I could of taken fifty or more legal lobsters in a single night. They want to stick me with a Quota then let me fill it like a commercial. I'd be happy to fill my quota in a few trips. It would save me both time and the money for fuel and launch fees.

If they don't like that idea they should shelve the quota idea and just let us hoop for our daily limits just like it's always been.

Jim

[tunaseeker]

Thanks for the info! When and where are your seminars planned this year?

[Saba Slayer]

Last season was the third highest harvest on record...
834,000lbs was landed by the commercial fleet last season.
The commercial guys are working with DFW to set trap limits on themselves. The number tossed around at the last meeting was 300 for a transferable permit and 600 for a non transferable permit with the availability of stacking two 300 type permits for a total of 600 traps.


Jim / Saba Slayer

[Saba Slayer]

Meeting is tomorrow...No input??
No repeatable comments for the commercial guys, NGO's or DFW?
Jim / Saba Slayer

[MrM]

Originally Posted by Saba Slayer

Meeting is tomorrow...No input??
No repeatable comments for the commercial guys, NGO's or DFW?
Jim / Saba Slayer

I'm proof reading a letter I wrote today as we speak. Will send it within the next hour or two! I did not get the thumbs up to take the day off, unfortunately.

EDIT:

Here's my letter. I emailed you a PDF copy as well on letterhead. Let's see how it goes... Hopefully others will speak up as well that have not already.

To the California Department of Fish & Wildlife Spiny Lobster Management Team:


As a recreational kayak fisherman and nature enthusiast, it is my duty to respect the world around me, and minimize my impact on the planet. The purpose of today’s meeting is to harness a perceived impact on the species of Spiny Lobster by the fishing community, ensuring their well-being and continued growth as a member of the animal kingdom. There have been many proposals on how to minimize the impact that recreational fisherman have had on the species as a whole, and I wish to convey my thoughts on the matter through this letter.

Setting a seasonal limit would be a logical solution to minimize the impact on local fisheries; however, recreational fishermen were not responsible for the sale and transport of over 834,000lbs of Spiny Lobster in 2012. That statistic belongs solely to the commercial fishing industry, which boasted its third highest totals ever recorded.

From the Assessment of the California Spiny Lobster, written by Douglas J Neilson, published by the (previously called) California Department of Fish & Game and released in 2011, “the recreational fisheries were estimated to have caught the equivalent of 44 percent of the commercial catch.” (A statement in reference to the ‘08-‘09 fishing season on page 37)

Should changes to the current Spiny Lobster regulations be made, I suggest that they be made to accurately reflect the true harvesters of the species to lower the yearly catch. I firmly believe that the Spiny Lobster is an extremely valuable member of the underwater world, and because of that I realize that recreational fisherman may need to make small adjustments as well.

Reported seasonal catches of over 71 Spiny Lobster were documented by only 1.7% of recreational fisherman between 2008 & 2012. By applying those numbers to the amount of report cards sold in 2013 (roughly 37,000), we could assume that only 630 recreational fisherman statewide caught 71+ lobster last season. That is 71 lobsters to be consumed by the fisherman, his or her family, and whomever comes over for a meal to enjoy the sustenance we have the opportunity to consume.

The current daily bag limit of 7 lobsters is perfect as we do not have a seasonal limit. Should a seasonal limit of 90 be introduced, the daily bag limit should be increased to 20 as to reduce the amount of pollution created by boats and vehicles on the road, and decrease the amount of boat traffic on the water. Furthermore, what I would encourage fisherman of all walks to practice, is the release of any female Spiny Lobsters bearing a sperm pack. I would fully endorse such a law, as pregnant female lobsters are a vessel of future generations.

Talk of creating restrictions on mechanized pullers has also been brought up. Mechanized pullers are not reserved for those with disabilities, but greatly aid those who do not wish to tire themselves out in the dead of night when pulling hoops from a great depth. Any restriction on mechanized pullers on able-bodies will create a safety hazard. As a Safety Professional who works to reduce risks to life and health in a myriad of dangerous environments, I highly suggest you consider the risks you will pose to the life and health of human beings prior to creating such a law. The possibility of overexertion when fishing is slow after a long night on the water is too great to suggest such a dangerous law change.

A recent change in the law has created a $20.00 non-return fee for unreturned report cards. I would suggest that the funds collected for such a failure go directly to the construction of new rock reefs and habitats in recently-decreased lobster population areas.

Lastly, I would like to commend this management team for working to save the ocean environment and life found within. I have faith that the committee will listen to the promising proposals of those who not only depend on the ocean for a living, but for a hard-earned meal, relaxation and enjoyment. The answer to ensuring a sustainable ocean for tomorrow is by pooling our collective thoughts, and working together.








Respectfully,


Kevin XXXXXXXXXXXX

[Fiskadoro]

So I did some checking around and I found some things out.

Here's my letter for the DFG:

To the California Department of Fish & Wildlife Spiny Lobster Management Team:

I hear the commercials took a record number of lobsters last year, that there is now a debate about regulations to monitor the commercial take, and that the commercials have suggested regulations to limit the recreational take. I'd suggest the DFG work out the commercial regulations on their own merit.

So the possible commercial regulations are a catch limit or seasonal quota and a restriction of the number of traps. Logical enough. I'm surprised these regulations do not already exist.

Recs have a gear limit of 5 nets per person and a catch limit 7 lobsters a day. If these regulations are necessary for recreational anglers it seems logical that the commercials would need to be regulated in a similar manner.

I've heard the commercials are against being regulated, are opposed any kind of quota or catch limit, but a trap limit of 500 traps per permit with stacking is still being discussed. I think that is a great step, but I've been told that they will not agree to any trap number limitations until more restrictions placed on the recreational anglers. That they think the seasonal quota they reject for themselves should be imposed on the recreational anglers. I can't see the logic. They don't want a quota or catch limit for themselves but they want to keep our daily bag limit and add a seasonal quota for recreationals. That's ridiculously unfair, and no seasonal quotas for recreational anglers should even be discussed until the commercials are willing to discuss one for their own fishery.

The other regulation proposed would be a ban on mechanical pullers in the recreational lobster fishery.

This is of interest to me and my initial take is that such a regulation would limit recreational lobster fisherman access, and force us to all fish the same shallow inshore waters. You can't hoop deep rocks pulling nets by hand, it's too hard. Divers can't get down there, so shutting down the use of mechanical pullers would force recreational anglers off deep water rock structure leaving those areas to the commercial trap fisherman alone. A good strategy for them but once again unfair.

The commercials claim that this regulation is necessary because recreational anglers are using pullers to poach lobsters from their traps. That is just not a physical reality.

I have a puller. I built it after my first lobster trip. As a fabricator I work with my hands all day and over time I've done some damage to my wrists. I'm not on disability, but if I hoop without a puller for too long my wrists hurt so much I can't even hold a fork when I get home. I built my puller from a old outboard starter motor and a gearbox, but like any good fabricator I researched various options before building my own. So I know a few things about pullers and line haulers.

Basically there are two types of pullers. Recreational pullers for crab and shrimp pots and commercial duty lobster trap line haulers.

My puller has about a fifty pound capacity, the best pullers I've seen used for recreational lobster are Ace Line Haulers, a good crab pot puller that costs $500 and has a 100 pound capacity.

The majority of the line haulers Commercial Lobster Fisherman use have between a 1000 and 2900 pound capacity, and cost between $1500 to $6000. Recreational lobster fisherman do not buy those kinds of pullers and we do not use them.

No recreational angler has ever been caught pulling a commercial lobster trap with a Ace puller. Our pullers couldn't physically pull the traps even if we tried.

It's like saying we should ban pickup trucks because they are taking away business from long haul interstate trucking. Pickup trucks are not in the same league as huge diesel 18 wheelers.

A $500 Ace 100 pound capacity line hauler not even remotely in the same league as a $5300 Hydro Slave Hydraulic puller with a 2900 pound capacity.

The commercials know this. They own lobster boats, they know what kind of gear they have to buy to do the job.

Simply stated the new regulations suggested for the recreational fishery have no merit and should not even be considered at this point.

Our catch is down. We are not overfishing. Recreational anglers already have both gear limits and catch limits. Our mechanical pullers are used in deep water where most do not hoop, which lessons the pressure on the inshore hoop dive fishery. They do not give us a unfair advantage, and they are certainly not used for poaching lobster or illegally pulling commercial traps because they couldn't be used to do so.

At this point I would request that you reject the regulations proposed for the recreational lobster anglers, and move forward on regulating the commercials.

I would prefer you consider both the trap limit and a seasonal quota for the commercial lobster fishery. Recreational catch and gear is already regulated in these respects it would only be fair for the commercials to be regulated in the same manner.

Jim Day

[bubblehide]

Ouch!, Jim that has teeth; and it's right on the mark!.

[MrM]

^Jim, I like your letter better than mine!

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by MrM

^Jim, I like your letter better than mine!

Thanks!!

[danjor]

Originally Posted by bubblehide

Ouch!, Jim that has teeth; and it's right on the mark!.

Very well thought out letter!

I can't believe the commercial fishermen don't have trap limits or session quotas but recreational are limited to 5 nets per person and 7 bag limit and they want to impose more limits, that is really unfair considering the immense number of commercial traps I have seen at times... last lobster session I was in Malibu and it was shocking how many traps there were, almost every rock I could meter had a trap or two and they had them laid in and around the kelp, I watched them continually motor over kelp to check there traps destroying a large area of the kelp. But while the commercial boats use countless traps left out all session we are limited of 5 nets that are only used for a short period of time while we are out on the water.
I believe the commercial fleet should get limits on traps and quotas like in almost every other fishery. And the idea of putting a quota on recreational fishermans seasonal catch to stop poaching sounds vaguely familiar to the idea of imposing more gun laws on the public to keep guns out of crimnals hands....
BTW this is not a letter just me ranting while on lunch break lol

[Fiskadoro]

So this discussion has exploded over at Bloody Decks.

If you want to take a look:

http://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/sho...in-Jeopardy!!!