What you guys accomplished--one person's view - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

zenspearo · 06-04-2009, 07:59 PM

A few RSG members came and spoke to me and some called. To a man, they said that without our presence, all the black shirts and orange tags, Meg Caldwell's first amendment would have been accepted. It was orchestrated with all the supporting RSGs getting first words in, complaining about unfair voting, complaining about being intimidated, complaining about the middle ground arrays being duplicative. Six or seven supporting RSGs came up to plead for external C, and they bitched and they flopped around. Then they all asked for external C to move forward "just so we can see the science data." Meg Caldwell then had a ready-to-go amendment to move external C forward so the SAT data for XC can be made available for review. Sounds innocuous right? Afterall, our side has been complaining about lack of data, and here they are saying they just want to get more data. uh huh...

One problem.

There were about 100 black shirts and orange tags in the room, all saying no. And to a person, I don't think anyone was fooled. She had to try a much watered-down approach, and that got through but it was clearly a disappointment for the enviros. They all took off, and that's telling.

What you accomplished was to remove External C from being evaluated by the Science Advisory Team. It's a no-brainer that the way they set up the scoring, the larger the closure, the better the science scores. It would put pressure on the moderate/cross-interest arrays in the other 6 maps.

zenspearo · 06-04-2009, 08:00 PM

More importantly, what you accomplished was to prevent External C from being paraded at every hometown roadshow workshops in June and July. You denied the most extreme, rabid anti-fishing crowd from having a rally point at these hometown roadshow workshops. They can't go to the San Diego workshop and rally around the closure of all the productive fishing spots off La Jolla. The RSGs and the BRTF already rejected it as too radical. They can't go to PV and rally around the closure of all the productive spots of PV. That too is off the table for the roadshow workshops.

Believe you me, that is huge. You all did it.

Yes, the concepts behind External C can be incorporated into the third round after the road show but support for External C ideas has be weaker today. Meg Caldwell's failed first amendment can be argued to show that none of the other BRTF members support the External C array as a whole. Certainly the RSGs rejected it. And the overwhelming weight of the public showing up today rejected it. She may have done us a favor with that failed first amendment (or more accurately, she has done our RSGs a favor going into round 3). Her failed amendment illustrated concretely how little stomach there is for External C among other BRTFs.

Whatever the case, you all showed up, did marvelously, and won the day. Without you, the professionals said that the result would have been completely different, disastrously different.

kurt · 06-04-2009, 08:09 PM

Thank you, Joe. For all your hard work.

Sunburn · 06-04-2009, 08:25 PM

Great post. I feel good

After I left the meeting at 11am and went back to work, I put the meeting on my computer while I worked.

When no one "2nd" to Meg's motion and you guys all cheered and clapped........ I was pumping my fist and yelling

at my computer screen at work........

Then my feed buffered out and I was not sure what happened when it came back because they was voting on something and I was not sure....that's always a major bonner killer....and had to leave the room.

Mark

zenspearo · 06-04-2009, 08:26 PM

Now you have to go to your hometown workshops to beat down any attempt to bring back the ghost of this polarizing and extreme External C. But that's easier than External C being an official map that you have to try to beat down. However, that is still a task to be done--and if you don't, bits and pieces of this failed proposal will be snuck back into round 3 maps based on "overwhelming support from the public".

Our public, the ones in black shirts, must not allow that "overwhelming support" for any hint of the ghost of External C from being a reality in any of our hometowns. We need to continue to overwhelm and crush this extreme approach.

Like we did today. Thank you. Thank you.

From one very tired zenspearo--I'm getting some sleep.

Holy Mackerel · 06-04-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenspearo

Like we did today. Thank you. Thank you.

From one very tired zenspearo--I'm getting some sleep.

Thank you Joe! Now get some well deserved rest!!

LocoKayako · 06-04-2009, 08:58 PM

Jose, thank you!!! Thank you for all your support, advice and your hard work in keeping us all updated.

Get some rest and thank you again

Gabe

herbo · 06-05-2009, 02:50 AM

Thanx Joe for your hard work, glad to have been there, and will try to attend more until we win the battle over this political BS.....

H

Grego · 06-05-2009, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LocoKayako

Jose, thank you!!! Thank you for all your support, advice and your hard work in keeping us all updated.

Gabe

His name is "Joe"....just cuz your name is Jose, don't try and make him one also!

Yes, JOE.....thank you very much!

Nice seeing everyone there yesterday. I'm going to go down and support you guys at the 29th meeting in Carlsbad, plus it helps me prepare when it arrives up this way....and maybe I'll get lucky and have another chance to grab Nates ass again, he likes that

On another thread about Turfrider Foundation....they suck and to think I use to support them back in my teeny bopper days. Read a thread on the spearo board that they are boycotting their sponsors, maybe we can coordinate with them and let them feel the economic impacts even before this MLPA begins

It will be tough cuz a couple of the local grinds supporting them are staple to me...."The Loft" and "Rascals" My F'n nephew works at Rascals!

What else....ummmm....oh, I call them Enviromental Preservation Extremist and then subsequently just refer to them as "Extremists" in communications, and we are the Conservationist.....I think that is what we're suppose to be doing?

06-04-2009, 07:59 PM	#1
zenspearo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 167	What you guys accomplished--one person's view A few RSG members came and spoke to me and some called. To a man, they said that without our presence, all the black shirts and orange tags, Meg Caldwell's first amendment would have been accepted. It was orchestrated with all the supporting RSGs getting first words in, complaining about unfair voting, complaining about being intimidated, complaining about the middle ground arrays being duplicative. Six or seven supporting RSGs came up to plead for external C, and they bitched and they flopped around. Then they all asked for external C to move forward "just so we can see the science data." Meg Caldwell then had a ready-to-go amendment to move external C forward so the SAT data for XC can be made available for review. Sounds innocuous right? Afterall, our side has been complaining about lack of data, and here they are saying they just want to get more data. uh huh... One problem. There were about 100 black shirts and orange tags in the room, all saying no. And to a person, I don't think anyone was fooled. She had to try a much watered-down approach, and that got through but it was clearly a disappointment for the enviros. They all took off, and that's telling. What you accomplished was to remove External C from being evaluated by the Science Advisory Team. It's a no-brainer that the way they set up the scoring, the larger the closure, the better the science scores. It would put pressure on the moderate/cross-interest arrays in the other 6 maps. __________________ A spearo, but we are in this MLPA mess together Last edited by zenspearo; 06-04-2009 at 08:31 PM.

06-04-2009, 08:00 PM	#2
zenspearo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 167	More importantly, what you accomplished was to prevent External C from being paraded at every hometown roadshow workshops in June and July. You denied the most extreme, rabid anti-fishing crowd from having a rally point at these hometown roadshow workshops. They can't go to the San Diego workshop and rally around the closure of all the productive fishing spots off La Jolla. The RSGs and the BRTF already rejected it as too radical. They can't go to PV and rally around the closure of all the productive spots of PV. That too is off the table for the roadshow workshops. Believe you me, that is huge. You all did it. Yes, the concepts behind External C can be incorporated into the third round after the road show but support for External C ideas has be weaker today. Meg Caldwell's failed first amendment can be argued to show that none of the other BRTF members support the External C array as a whole. Certainly the RSGs rejected it. And the overwhelming weight of the public showing up today rejected it. She may have done us a favor with that failed first amendment (or more accurately, she has done our RSGs a favor going into round 3). Her failed amendment illustrated concretely how little stomach there is for External C among other BRTFs. Whatever the case, you all showed up, did marvelously, and won the day. Without you, the professionals said that the result would have been completely different, disastrously different. __________________ A spearo, but we are in this MLPA mess together

06-04-2009, 08:26 PM	#5
zenspearo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 167	Now you have to go to your hometown workshops to beat down any attempt to bring back the ghost of this polarizing and extreme External C. But that's easier than External C being an official map that you have to try to beat down. However, that is still a task to be done--and if you don't, bits and pieces of this failed proposal will be snuck back into round 3 maps based on "overwhelming support from the public". Our public, the ones in black shirts, must not allow that "overwhelming support" for any hint of the ghost of External C from being a reality in any of our hometowns. We need to continue to overwhelm and crush this extreme approach. Like we did today. Thank you. Thank you. From one very tired zenspearo--I'm getting some sleep. __________________ A spearo, but we are in this MLPA mess together Last edited by zenspearo; 06-04-2009 at 11:12 PM.

06-04-2009, 08:58 PM	#7
LocoKayako Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 91	Jose, thank you!!! Thank you for all your support, advice and your hard work in keeping us all updated. Get some rest and thank you again Gabe __________________

06-05-2009, 02:50 AM	#8
herbo Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canyon Country, Ca. Posts: 116	Thanx Joe for your hard work, glad to have been there, and will try to attend more until we win the battle over this political BS.....H __________________ mellow yellow malibu eXtreme

06-04-2009, 08:09 PM	#3
kurt Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: 2 inches above sea level Posts: 502	Thank you, Joe. For all your hard work.

06-04-2009, 08:25 PM	#4
Sunburn Junior Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 10	Great post. I feel good After I left the meeting at 11am and went back to work, I put the meeting on my computer while I worked. When no one "2nd" to Meg's motion and you guys all cheered and clapped........ I was pumping my fist and yelling at my computer screen at work........ Then my feed buffered out and I was not sure what happened when it came back because they was voting on something and I was not sure....that's always a major bonner killer....and had to leave the room. Mark