Transducers
 

Can you guys post pics (or link to a thread) of transducers mounted directly in the water off the side of the kayak etc.

I am trying to figure out the best way to do this and don't find much when I use the search.
Thanks

Here's one:
http://kayakfishinggear.com/liberato...tincluded.aspx

looks like a good one. Anyone do something like this with PVC out there?

Rudder Mount
 

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwegall...Rudder-Up2.jpg

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwegall...RudderDown.jpg
http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwegall.../Rudder-Up.jpg

dude that post of the wet transducer by bob seems like the way to go that hobie rudder mount gives unneeded drag

Yeah I agree that Bobs creation seems best. I am now in the process of creating it!
I'm just getting sick of people saying "dude look at that bait ball under us"....when all I see is a blank or innaccurate screen.

Extra Drag???
 

The drag seems like it should be about the same (to me, anyway). Both have a transducer in the water. On the rudder, it's mounted a little deeper, but I taped over the cable, so that should minimize any extra drag from the extra length. When the transducer is mounted on the apparatus up front, you have the mounting rod sticking down in the water, creating extra drag probably about equal to having a rudder. And since I already pull the rudder around anyway...

Besides, if you have a rudder it hardly makes sense to spend the extra bucks and mount the extra apparatus up front. Of course if you don't have a rudder, the choice becomes easier.

I think either should work well. To each their own.

If you are planning to build a version of my wet mount design, see if you can find a piece of clear pipe to use instead of the ABS material that I used. My setup works fine but it would be nice to be able to visually check to make sure there is water in the well. I think using some sort of clear material would solve that issue.

One thought I had was to give some heavy duty Tupperware a try.

If you go that route, please post pics.

Bob

I like that rudder concept.

Fabricating a new rudder to fit the transducer out of marine ply, sealed with fiberglass and epoxy should not be too much work. Hmmmmmmmmm.

/bing

yeah just dont buy a cheap one saves time when trying to locate bait & makes it easier to see with a bigger screen i have the 787c2i gps hummingbird with the navionics card love it and never had problems

You think that Rudder mounted transducer really creates that much drag in a Hobie Adventure? :biggrinjester:

Guys the rudder mount is a BAD idea, the fish your are marking will be behind you, secondly your gonna pick up your paddle/pedal interferance.
You don't see it but I have a sideimaging unit and you won't beleive the interference you paddle/ pedal wake makes
Don't forget, 1 foot of water depth equals a 1 foot circle of coverage.
Your transducer should be under your butt or infront of you. never behind you.
Over the side like the Mad Frog mount allows is a good setup, the drag is near nothing.

I attach mine to a Ram ball, I can take it from kayak to kayak
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Im setting up my lowrance hds 5 with the transducer placed inside a pelican box that has had the bottom side removed. We found that the box needed a slot cut in the top to allow for the transducer wire to run with no pressure. A hobie rudder post and cotter pin holds the transducer at the correct angle. fill with water, and presto.
Then when finished the transducer is removed from the box easily so no wires and waterproof connections need to be opened to completely remove the unit from the kayak.
this pelican box is clear so its easy to see the water.

Dosen't the HDS need to be external? like the Humminbird side imaging units

I started with the over the side but went to a in the hull set up.

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/6436/26944185ra9.jpghttp://img120.imageshack.us/img120/7840/16625639zn4.jpghttp://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4308/60631188do1.jpg


No added drag, no rigging hassle, no leaks, and superior performance.

I didn't bother to shorten the transducer cable but tied it off.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/136/transducertp2.jpg
I just connect the finder to the connection above and it's on.
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/5306/finderde9.jpg
it's just a standard transom mount transducer with depth and temp with an dual operating frequency of 200 and 50 kHz, since I never fsh over 300 feet I keep it set with a beam width of 15 degrees at 200 kHz, but even at that setting I can read fish at 500 feet.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2382/537zo1.jpg

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/6561/detailsc8.jpg

Not for the faint of heart but it works for me.http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/153/ljyellow.jpg

Jim

Jim, Very Cool, one of the best I've seen.

I did mine Jim Day style and, yes it is NOT for the faint of heart but I can watch my swimbait all the way down in 90 ft

Pretty cool guys! I am in the process of creating the wet mount. Seems like it should work better than the goop method. I'll let you know how it works.

Have you had an issues at all?

I've had none.

One guy emailed me that he did it and had a few drops of water leak in but that was it. I can't imagine how that would happen. If it's done right (I saw your post and you did a great job, nicer then mine..LOL) I can't see how it could leak.

I tried goop and a wet mount inside the hull and I was always having to mess with it and the results were sub par in my opinion. Then again I have higher expectations because I'm used to installing them on boats.

The thing I like about it is it's trouble and hassle free and I never have to do anything or think about it. It works just as well as the transducer on my skiff, and requires no maintenance. One less thing I have to worry about...LOL


Jim

I have not had a drop! I think what was key was predrilling & not skimping on the 5200.

& thx for the compliment!:cheers1:

That cutout looks like the best idea but im way to scared to start chopping up the Hobie. :hmmmm:

come on Geof, its only money ;)

Here's mine. Through hull, ala Bing!
Had it in a year now. Not a single drop of water. No drag. No maintenance. I can read bottom in over 500 ft, track small jigs all the way down, and have an accurate surface temp. Went a little heavy on the 5200, but it offers me a good peace of mind.

Sorry for the bad photo's

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...r/P2230011.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...r/P2230012.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...r/P2230015.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...r/P2230017.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...r/P2230018.jpg

I also did the thru hull and don't have any leaks either. I used just enough 5200 to bond it to the kayak and make it waterproof. If done correctly, it's not going to just come apart and sink your kayak.

I trimmed off the excess 5200 once it was fully cured. (after this photo was taken)

http://home.earthlink.net/~webpics/images/%2307.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~webpics/images/%2306.jpg

I am not trying to encourage anyone to do this. I just wanted to verify, from my own experience, that this can be done without compromising safety.

Jason

Built in the hull and through hull transducers are the oldest, most reliable and most tested methods for installing transducers.

Transom mounted transducers are relatively new in comparison and of limited use compared to through hulls, do to the fact they are pretty much relegated to small craft..

I got my idea for building my set up from an older 56 ocean sportfisher I captained. When we put it in dry dock to install a Furuno searchlight sonar (18 grand) I got the chance to pull out several old transducers out that were originally glassed right into the hull. They were working but we still replaced them with new state of the art, industry standard bronze thru-hull transducers that look and function almost exactly like the one you put in your kayak.

Your average big boat has maybe a dozen thru hulls in it, drains, intakes, as well as transducers. They only time the fail is when they are over tightened or stripped or when elctrolisys takes out a bronze thru-hull.

I've never heard of a transducer thru-hull leaking or failing on a large boat, and considering the fact they have a much deeper water line and more water pressure on the seal, I'd say it's extremely unlikely you would ever have a leak using a traditional threaded thru-hull like the one you put in your kayak.

I mean realistic you're talking a water depth of inches, and using units that are designed to seal against water pressure caused by many feet of water.

The wet well transducers may work much better then the gooped ones, but a properly mounted thru hull transducer has even better performance the a transom mount transducer properly hung down in the water on the back of a transom of a boat, and the threaded ones are even easier to install.

When installed in the hull of a yak they actually give the exact same performance, as they do in a high end boat, so it's simply the best method of installation performance wise ..period.


I mean it all depends what you want.

Possibly having a thru-hull in you yak may lower the resale value, but for me the performance is worth it. Personally I'm more worried about catching fish now then what I can sell my yak for later down the line.... :D

.... and I'd say there is no safety issues with thru-hull transducers (especially like yours) at all.

When I saw Bing post his, I figured the cat was out of the bag, and that there would be a bunch of people following suit and switching over, as a threaded thru-hull is a simple install that anyone can do. I think down the road it's going to be the standard procedure as to how kayak guys rig their transducers.

Im surprised that one of the manufacturers has not made a inset for them to keep them level when placed to the side to keep then from getting scratched up. Personally I don't like seeing them on the center line where the get dragged on the sand, but I imagine you will see something like an 1/4 inch inset for them down the line.

Since airmar makes the vast majority of them for pretty much all the brands the smaller plastic thru-hull transducers are pretty much all the same size wise, so essentially once the hole is drilled they are interchangeable.

Bottom line... Properly installed they will never be an issue, and the will outperform anything out there.

Jim

That 3M 5200 sealant is excellent for through hull fittings.

I'll be teh first to admit that it was a HUGE leap of faith. After I cut the hole it was a major WTF have I done?!?!?!

BUT the difference between the way it was gooped in before and how it is now, there is no comparison. I had to turn down the sensitivity some. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to convince you. But the rationale behind it being safe convinced me.

With the aluminum plate tightened down against the neoprene you have a compression seal. Then you have the 5200, which after doing this I am convinced is nasty to work with but in-freaking-credible stuff! When my daughter (age 4) grows up & starts dating :mad:I just may have to use this on the boy's britches to make sure they stay on :mad::mad:. That and the nail gun:stickyman:But I digress. After the initial run and seeing how dry it is inside, and considering the double seal involved I would absolutely take this approach again.

5200 was designed specifically for use with Marine thru- hulls. It's the standard of the industry and everyone uses it.

It is tough stuff. I once had to use a 2 ton jack to push out a 4 inch intake thru-hull (bronze) that was 5200'd in place and it still was not easy to get out. Shipyards commonly heat up large bronze through hulls with torches to compromise the 5200, other wise they are almost impossible to remove.

It used to be very expensive, over twenty bucks a tube, now it's come down do to the fact that non-marine stores like home depot carry it.

Actually for yaks a prefer the black version of 4200 which dries faster then 5200, both are more the adequate for sealing plastic threaded thru-hulls in kayaks.

Jim

That is exactly why I had to smile when I saw your original post on it. You get the mechanics involved, and you also had the skills to do it right.

My concern and the reason I did not push the idea that much as there would be people who'd try it without the knowledge or skill to pull it off.

With the flush mount foam and plate method you are creating your seal using the interactive properties of three separate materials. We're making the seal rather then just installing one, which means there is a greater possibility of screwwing up. If you know what your doing it's fool proof but it's not fool proof if you don't know what you are doing... :D.

With the thru-hull you already have the seal all you have to do is drill the right sized hole in the right place, stick it in with minimal sealent and tighten then tighten the nut to an appropriate tension. Add 5200 and anyone could do it, as it's parctiacally a no brainer. It's no more difficult or complicated then installing a intake for a bait tank.

I'd recomend that route to anyone, but the method you and I used is more complcated and takes a set of skills to exicute correctly...so I'm a little more cautious on recomending that one.

That said each has it's pros and cons. Our setup creates less darg and it's less likely that our transducers will get significant damaged or scratching since they are flush with the hull. Additionally our transducers were cheaper as they came stock with the units. So it's less expensive to do but more labor intensive to do right.

In contrast the thru-hull is less labor intensive, so it's more accessbale to the average guy and in that one you don't have to reinvent the wheel as your using that transducer in exactly the manner it is designed to be used.

May take is there's more then one way to skin the catfish.

That each has it's merits.

I got two seprate yak projects I'm playing with right now, off and on: one in metal and one in Kevlar carbon composite.

I'll probably use both methods, using a thru hull for the tin yak, and a built in for the KC yak, but nothing is written in stone at this point.

Jim

This was the reason for my post in this thread.

My Garmin 440s did not come with a transducer. Knowing that it would give the best performance possible, I decided to get the thru-hull.

And yes, the threaded style that I have is pretty fool-proof. :biggrinjester:

Jason

How do you like your 440s?

I just bought one off ebay a new 440s for $330 "new in box".

Here's the funny part. It was missing the transducer!!

So I contacted the seller and he credited me a 50 buck refund. What's funny is I already had bought a $150 buck airmar threaded thru-hull transducer (they make the Garmins and it's Garmin compatible) for fifty bucks off ebay.

So I got the unit brand new in the box for $330, with a threaded thru hull transducer... :D

The only disappointment for me is that it will not fit on any of my older yak setups for my 398C due to the fact they have a changed the connector for the cord.

Jim

I am very happy with its performance and features.

BTW Re: wet mount I was at Camping World recently and in their sewer hook up parts they had clear plastic fittings. they might be large enough for transducers.....H:cool:

Nice install Jim. Thru hull is the way to go just be sure to use the fast cure 5200 (which you can also get in white). The regular stuff can take a month to cure. My only question is why you did not use SS counter sunk bolts with SS fender washers and nylock nuts on top instead of screws? Not that I think you would have any issues with screws but curious what went into that decision. I have built and rigged many skiffs and was just wondering. My yak is old school with no FF since I don't use it very often.

Good 5200 story, I had to torch and sledge hammer out my last bronze transducer which I used 5200 to install (it failed) in my boat. I have drilled 7 thru holes in my boat and none leak. I once had to use a forklift to get an engine bracket off a boat that was adhered only with 5200 (bolts removed)!

Garmin Transducers
 

I just purchased a new Garmin FF. Does anyone know if they or any dealer will exchange the transome mount ducer for a thru-hull type?

Com'on F/F is useless without one of these :D

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwegall...0/IMG_2409.jpg

Dang Iceman! Why'd you have to take it up a notch :) BAM! I want one.

Glad to see me and Jim are not the only ones that jumped off the thru hull cliff :)

Its not for everone, but I have not regretted it.

/bing

Not my ride Bing, customer wanted F/F moved up to the sail mast. Had to pull the Kayatank and saw the lil yellow box inside.

http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwegall...0/IMG_2407.jpg

pardon my lack of inteligence....
but...
what is that yellow box and what does it do?

It reads and records barometric pressure. It actually does more then reads it but stores it in a 12 hour buffer allowing you to access current and past data to see if there have been pressure changes and what the trend is.

The higher the atmospheric pressure the more water it can hold in the air. So usually when you get a dramatic drop in atmospheric pressure your going to get rain. Cold fronts that produce rain are actually low pressure fronts.

Water is more dense then air and when the air pressure changes it creates micro changes in water density. For years and years people have said that fish bite on a falling barometer, but the question has always been why.

My take is that baitfish do to there small size have trouble dealing with changes of temperature PH or pressure. When you have a dramatic shift in barometric pressure, it can produce a small change in water pressure, which can sometimes disorient bait and make it easy prey.

This is the same reason offshore fish feed on temp breaks. Baitfish when they hit a break get disoriented as their bodies adapt to the temp change which makes then easy prey for larger fish that are not effected by the small changes due to their increased mass.

Whatever the reason fish tend to feed before storms, and they somehow have a way of sensing storms are coming. I'd say they have some kind of ability to sense the rapid drop in pressure which signals the storms are coming.

In a way that box just gives the angler the same ability.


Jim