Catch & Release Discussion
 

Imported from a previous thread.

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by dsafety http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/i...s/viewpost.gif
Good point but the bottom line is that we should never take more than we can use. If someone can consume 100 lbs of fresh fish in a week or two than they should definitely keep that much fish if they can catch it.

On the other hand, if you harvest more than you can use and a bunch of it ends up in the freezer only to get tossed out when you catch your next big fish, that is wasteful. It makes no sense to me to kill a fish and then send it to the land fill.

To me, there are two great things about fishing... catching and eating. The catching part ends when you get the fish to the yak. If you need the meat, stick the gaff. If not, take a photo and release the fish.

It does not matter if you are one guy on a kayak or part of a large group on a PB, the rules should be the same. Take what you need... use what you take. It's as simple as that.

Bob

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Driftwood Responded:

"Nobody should judge how much fish one can consume in a certain amount of time. Fish doesn't last long in my freezer. I would have no problem keeping two 52bl Y.T. caught in the same day and only post one. that would be enough fish for 6 months. If you use a food saver the fish Will stay almost fresh for a year.

I would love to practice catch and release. My problem is the same as 95% of kayak fishing guys out there. I spend HUNDREDS of hours on the water and maybe catch one or two Y.T. a year if I'm lucky. last year I caught two 30lb Y.T. on the squid run which lasted for about 3 days.

If i would of caught 5 Y.T. during the squid run I would of kept them all - because that would have been itttt- for the whole year. The squid run only comes once a year and last for maybe three day. If your lucky enough to fish in that small window, good for you! and if your like me, (no fish catching fool) I hope you catch your limit!! :rolleyes: OK, maybe 5 would suffice."

Dorado added:

"Thanks for the incite and concern for people taking more fish than you wish,Bob, I've never released a Yellowtail in my life! I only stop fishing for them when I get limits or my arms fall off! I may practice catch and release on yellows someday but not "today".

Bob again:

While I am disappointed that apparently a significant number of people whom I respect do not share my opinion on the subject of Catch and Release, I think it is great that we can have this discussion.

First I have to admit that while I support the practice, I have never actually released a big YT or WSB either. I have only caught a few YT and only one WSB. In each case, I wanted the meat so harvesting was a no brainier. Would I have released the second or third fish had I been lucky enough to catch them on any of those days. You bet. But maybe that's just me. I know that others share my point of view because I have watched a few guys release some really nice fish.

We may disagree on a number of issues relating to this subject but I hope we can all agree on this. Our fisheries and particularly La Jolla, may be in great shape today but that is due to a large degree to the fact that fishermen have become much more responsible than we were just a few years ago. This needs to continue. If we abuse this resource it could be taken away from us. Witness the recent MLPA sideshow.

Bob





<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

okay you hooked me...
 

I doubt this, or that catch and release has anything to do with why there have been some nice yellowtail, wsb, and halibut caught around La Jolla in recent years. Especially since there have been even more sportfishermen(and kayakers) otw in recent years.

Are you talking about commercial or sportfishermen?

I can speculate about many other reasons which I think have had a more significant effect on the fisheries off southern California, but the fact is we still know very little about a lot of the species which have been stated here to be in great shape.

In reality, I think many of these local fisheries are sustainable, but nowhere near as good or great as they were in years past. Just because there weren't internet fishing forums ten years ago doesn't mean there weren't big yellowtail swimming off La Jolla, or big tuna just offshore.

There may have been less people around to enjoy La Jolla, or brag about it, but thats just the population... San Diego was a much smaller town not a long time ago.

Just like anything, yellowtail have good and bad years. Their populations will fluctuate naturally from year to year depending on many factors.

WSB may be a different story because they were heavily over fished by the inshore gillnetters until the 80', when nearshore gillnetting was banned. Since then wsb have been coming back, possibly due to many factors.

I don't see the wsb populations recovering because most sportfishermen are suddenly releasing them... in fact, many sportfishermen are still looking for their fisrt legal wsb.

The fishing may get good sometimes in La Jolla, and there may be a lot of fish caught, but I think these fish move up and down the coast more than we realize. I'm sure they have patterns and preferences. La Jolla is just one of their favorite restaurants!

I see points on both sides of this argument. For me it comes down to a simple question. "Would I be ok with everyone doing this?". Each persons answer to this question will be different based on their individual circumstances and values.

Bob, If you were to go on a 3 day fishing trip for albacore wouldn't you want to catch your limit? Especially if you can only afford to do it once a year. My point is this... we should not be so quick to judge anybody unless you know all the facts. Everybody has diffrent circumstances and schedules. some guys can only fish maybe 10 times a year. If that man comes in with 3 Y.T. on his yak in the same day who am i to judge?

I do agree with the idealogy of catch and ralease. But lets not be so quick to judge anybody unless you know all the facts. Too many people tend to respond negatively based only on pure jeoulsy and i think that is ignorance.

good model to go by.

keep what you will eat, keep enough of it, but dont disrespect it

Bob....according to you, your wife won't eat any of the fish you catch. That means your quota is half of everyone else. :cheers1:

Driftwood, you make a very good point. And my answer is that I would likely catch and keep my limit if possible and can or freeze my bounty for future consumption.

Your question is not quite fair, however. I see a big difference between a going long range trip to the somewhere in the middle of the ocean and taking care of our own back yard. The point that I am trying to get across is that for many of us just going fishing is the big joy. Catching, on those sometimes rare occasions that we get lucky is the payoff. Harvesting the fish if you don't need to is a decision that each of us needs to make then the situation arises.

Would I suggest that any of us release their first trophy fish. Hell no! But if the stars all align and you catch more than you can possibly use during a given period, the responsible thing in my opinion is to release the fish that you do not need. Maybe that fish that you did not kill on your last trip will be the only one that takes your bait on the next trip.

Let's be clear on my position here. I used to consider myself an environmentalist until that description was hijacked by a bunch of wackos. I still strongly believe that we need to take care of the plant if we want to continue to live here comfortably but believe that moderate solutions are preferable to drastic ones.

At home, I turn of lights that do not need to be on. In my garden, I try to use organic fertilizers whenever possible. When there is a water shortage, I try to reduce the amount of water that I use. I fish from a kayak in part because it is just about the most environmentally friendly way to get out on the water. Do these things mark me as some sort of a tree hugging nutcase. I hope not.

All I am trying to get across here is that we are damned lucky to have a resource like La Jolla where we can hang out with friends while enjoying the best climate on the planet and occasionally catching some spectacular fish. I don't want to lose that privilege and I would like my grandkids to have the same opportunity.

Bob

Good one and probably true.

Bob

Then you should step up and fight the mlpa instead of worrying about how many fish people keep!

I am not sure where that statement came from but for the record, I plan to do both.


Bob

X2...what about the Mexican seiners that wrap the migrating Yt off the Coronado Islands bound for LJ and beyond. I don't think you have a view of the overall picture of what really goes on in other countries,especially Mexico. I know for a fact kayak fisherman and private boats have no impact on our fisheries whatsoever. Wrapping 10 million lbs. of yellowfin,yellowtail,sharks,albacore, and all other by-catch (yearly)is what affects Calif. fisheries. Y u so worried about LJ anyway?

At least I won't have to go to BD to see a good catfight. Bust out the popcorn!

Dorado, I am sure that you are correct in what you have written about the foreign and commercial fishing impact. Unfortunately, you and I have no control over that and we both know that our Government is not interested in solving this problem. No money or votes to be gained there.

I believe that you are incorrect, however, when you say that "kayak fisherman and private boats have no impact on our fisheries whatsoever". If that is the case, where did all the Black Sea Bass go 40 years ago. Why is the average size of a local rockfish only a pound or two these days when they were five times that size just a few years back. Neither of these types of fish were ever a commercial target. The change came as a result of irresponsible recreational fishing practices years ago. Sure, things are improving but we have to stay the course.

Everything we do has an impact. All I am suggesting is that we all behave responsibly.

Why am I so worried about La Jolla? That is a surprising question coming from a veteran yakfisher. To me and a lot of others in this part of the world La Jolla is the single most important fishing destination in the region. No other place comes close.

Bob

We americans are just as guilty as anyone else when it comes to commercial over-fishing. Dont just point the finger at the Mexicans.

Bob when it comes to local fish you have to realize that they were and are commercially targeted. Commercial fishing by definition is the act of taking fish from the ocean for the purpose of profit. Well last I checked half day and three quarter day boats werent running out there to bring home fillets to the family. They were and are doing it strictly for cash in the pocket.
A fishing pole is not much different than a commercial Jack pole, just more line and sometimes more hooks. So now you have four half day boats and two or three three quarter day boats heading out when business is good. Shoot might as well fill em up to capacity, after all its not about fishing pleasure its about selling as many tickets as you can. So all those boats add up to about two hundred or so fishermen a day running out to la jolla, oh yeah don forget about the twilight boat, wouldnt want to give the fish a break. Do that everyday for an entire summer and fall or for as long as you can sell a ton of tickets. Shoot that adds up to tens of thousands of lines hitting the water locally a month. That adds up to some serious commercial fishing pressure if you ask me. That my friend is why a calico over twelve inches is so hard to come by towards the end of summer and why rockfish are so small.

The problems are numerous and BIG. Pollution, commercial pressure, cattle boat pressure. Not sure what to do about it Bob. The DFG should take a good hard look at size and take limits. Might be the only way to truly help our local fish species.
Honestly the yak community is the smallest part of the equation. I understand your concern Bob, but man there are bigger fish to fry.

Pretty much hits the nail on the head! Like I said,"kayak fisherman and private boats have no impact on our fisheries at all".

Owyn, 100% with you :cheers1:

C&R is a great thing.
It's the fact that catching fish AND eating it is what lot's of sportfishermen are about. Nothing wrong with it, it's legal. We should stop pretending that we don't kill some fish when we do. If we keep talking that we do, I don't think the enviros will like us any better - we're still hurting "their" fish. :rolleyes:

It seems to me that we all develop our own ways and preference for C&R over time. I used to be "shoot all that moves" kind of fisherman, D50 club. I'm not as "cruel" nowadays. :) I now like to release all bass, will let barely legal halibut live, mostly release those one year old summer YT rats. I occasionally eat them too, it's dictated by the current situation in the fridge/freezer. I never freeze YT. We eat it while fresh, leftovers we hand out to take care of good friends. I hear over and over how much they loved it. I throw a pitch how crazy close we're getting to having the opportunity to bring such a great fresh seafood treat to the table... ;)

This won't be a popular opinion here but I think going fishing with the intent to catch and release is silly. Basically, you get your kicks out of fooling fish into biting your lure, allowing them to fight for their life and exhaust them, take them out of the water and possible damage them, then feel good about yourself for releasing a spent fish who is now a big target for other predators.

I stop fishing after I have 20+ pounds of fish. After a 40 or 50 lb fish I might not go out again for a couple of months. Not saying everyone should do what I do, just sharing another opinion.

Cioppino,

You are not going to get any disagreement from me on the points you mentioned above. I am sure that you are dead-on, including your statement that yakfishers are among the smallest dangers to a sustainable fishery. As a group, we are probably the most responsible fishers out there as well.

That does not alter my opinion that even though we may behave better than some others, we still need to do our best to help protect this resource we all love so much. I am hopeful that the PBers and Cattle Boat operators will do the same.

Most of us are already doing all the right things and that is terrific. Unfortunately, there are still a few among us who either disagree with this philosophy or have not yet gotten the message.

This thread began in response to some young guy bragging about how he was able to catch and kill three huge YT in three days. That was a remarkable feat that most of us will never experience. I am curious about what happened to all the meat from those fish. If it was all consumed or frozen to be eaten a few months from now, great. No harm, no foul.

If, on the other hand, some of those fish were killed for no reason other than so this gentleman could display his trophies and show off what a great fisher he is, I have a problem with that.

There is a world class fisherman among us who fishes nearly every day, mostly targeting YT and WSB. I have been beside this guy as caught and released a big YT. It was the first time I had seen this done. Later in the day, he caught another, which he kept. If he had caught a third on that day, I am sure it would have been released. I suspect that this great fisherman releases more fish during a typical season than most of the rest of us will catch in a lifetime. To me this is the responsible way to enjoy our sport.

Bob

Beating this dead horse won't ever kill it
 

Everyone has an opinion on it. My take....I don't give a shit what you do as long as I'm catching something. Stay within the regs and don't waste the resource. Some people drive gas guzzlers some people drive hybrids, some people prefer blondes some prefer brunettes. Personally I like em all! For me, its like the opportunity to have sex. It rarely, if ever, comes around for me, so when the opportunity does present itself you'd better believe I'm all over it and I'm taking all that I can. Except for that one time I ran out of money at the cul-de-sac of love just outside of Carson NV. :cheers1:

Catch and release is not necessarily the most noble of things, give someone else the opportunity to get theirs. This sport is more of an addiction than therapy to some.

Dave, I can appreciate your perspective. I am satisfied with a good catch and savor that "mission accomplished" until the next time. I don't ever recall fishing 2 days in a row even if it is WFO.

I pretty much do my part by being a crappy fisherman. I never catch anything at La Jolla except Calico.

Blast from the past

<TABLE style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" class=tborder border=0 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center><TBODY><TR title="Post 51123" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1>Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by madscientist http://www.bigwatersedge.com/bwevb/i...s/viewpost.gif

I never had any interest in being a sportsman. In some ways, I find the notion of hooking and potentially injuring fish just for pleasure, or "sport", less morally defensible than fishing for meat. Walking around the neighborhood trying to kick cats would be sport as well, but most would say somewhat cruel.

Providing fresh, organic, wild caught, non-netted, non-polluting, non-commercially processed seafood to people you care about, now that's a crime and a horrible example to set!

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=thead colSpan=2>Today 09:06 AM</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Interesting perspective Steveoo.

Do you think madscientist was suggesting that if we fish at all, we should kill and take everything we hook because making them fight for a while and then letting them go is cruel, just like kicking a cat?

I can see his point but I just don't agree.

Bob

This sort of c&r versus cunsumption pissing match isn't helpful to anglers. To our oponents the very act of fishing is the problem. It's not what you take it's the fact that you fish at all that is the issue. Attacking each other doesn't help us but only provides ammo for zero fishing advocates. Obey the regs, eat what you take, and only critisize those that don't do the first 2. Mike

HELL YEAH TAGGERMIKE!!! HELL YEAH!!!

I don't mean that I have any clue what he was trying to suggest. It is merely a quote that I found amusing when this topic came up several years back. Possibly another perspective to be considered? All i do know is that it has been so long since I've landed a large fish, that the ones I have caught in the past seen to keep increasing in quantity and quality in my mind. Cat kicking does seem decently fun though, so does fishing now that I think of it...

Did someone say food?

I should have been more respectful when I said it was silly. Can I take that back? Some of my best friends are bass fishermen, my sister married one. :D

AMEN to that! :iagree:

Oh, the legendary cat kicking analogy... :D

Bob, I am pretty sure that Madscientist wasn't suggesting anything, just providing his opinion. He loves to fish, like you and I do.

Sure thing that all of us won't agree on C&R subject, or lots of other subjects... Beautiful thing is - we don't have to agree! :)

I'd really like to hear what Yani has to say on this subject :)

Well said and I bet we can all agree on that.

Bob.

I have been waiting for the Darkhorse, BillyV and PAL to chime in.

Bob

Right on, that's what makes this country and our way of life worth fighting for.

I hear ya'. You've got to remember - it's not the same for Josh or PAL to chip in on this sensitive subject that seems to divide people, given that they've got professional ties; their words on public forum have different weight than the rest of us.

My bet would be they'd chip in some "politically correct" stuff, long live C&R...

Now Billy V, given just his accent, my guess would be "eat 'em all" club... :D

this is the perfect place to voice your opinion, not in someones fishing report, get it off your chest.

Bob, I can't believe you just did that. Dropping names is never a class act.
you are glutton for punishment. this is how this whole debate got started.

you got your point across... now please stop.

Fish are fish... people try to project human emotions on them.

Fish are fish, People are people, fisherman are fisherman.

I think anyone who fishes enough is going to run into times when they catch fish they do not want or need. I pretty much release everything except tuna, Yellows and Seabass, though I will occasionally keep lings, rockfish and bass for my friends.

Is it cruel to release fish? I don't think so. Look at it this way. Studies have shown that fish have much longer memories then they used to think and they have found that hook fish will avoid the same type of scenario that got them hooked for a year or more. It's like hey... your not hurting them your educating them... :D Besides it beats the alternative for the fish, no doubt if they had a vote...... :D

I think the real issue with catch and release is mortality. If your not killing fish and letting it go to waste it's not irresponsable.

I think tail hooked T's probably die so I keep them unless the revive right away. I don't fish white seabass catch and release unless they are in less the 15 ft of water due to the swim bladder issues. Striped bass, yellows, tuna, halibut calicos etc.... I think they all release well as long as you don't handle them, and screw up their slime layer, so I have no problem letting them go.

Rockfish, protected fish, fish that are undersized.... you do what you can, I drop my rockfish back down with a sink rig but who knows if they survive.

Bottom line I think this is a common sense thing. If you are catching yellows all day long, and releasing them... more power to you. The only issue I have with that scenario is if I'm not there to catch them with you. :D

Just my take though, Jim

I can give you my personal opinion, custom and practice.

I'll try to keep it short.
I have been a hunter since I was 16 years old, rifle, shotgun, and now bow only. For me it was about the hunt and the skills required to stalk, not the kill.
Whether I fired on an animal came down to the circumstances of the moment:
Was it a proper buck to harvest ? Its age ? Is there meat in the freezer ? Was it the trophy of a lifetime, and meet some of the other requirements ? Time of day and distance back to camp ? Was I so enthralled with its beauty and the journey it led me on that It earned the right to survive ?

I have been fishing and crabbing since 5 years old and although I have caught many fish, the same principles apply.

I only take what will be eaten, and what is reasonable to me.
I release alot of fish, and won't take certain species.
Is it releasable, was it injured ? I have to consider the circumstances of the moment.
I try to maintain a balance.

I enjoy watching other people catching fish as much as catching them myself.:)

Thanks Andy. :D I usually keep my mouth shut on these issues but this seemed like a good opportunity to put everyone's opinions on the table. I don't think the C&R angle helps us in the MLPA process. Sustainable consumption is a compelling argument.